Marines in the SGC?

[Caliburn24]

It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

I really don't see why Navy personnel should be more qualified in operating a spacecraft just because this spacecraft tends to be big. It's still an entirely different type of craft. People tend to take the term spaceship far too literal, that's how the whole "space navy" trope in SF came to be.

Anyway, the reason why the Air Force operates starships on Stargate is because there is a real-world Air Force Space Command. And the Air Force was always running the Stargate program, starting with the original feature film.

 

[Star Wolf]

It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.

TV rule, all characters are Special Forces. You can't write Navy without adding SEAL its the law. Jethro Gibbs of NCIS was a Marine MP and a Scout/Sniper. On JAG the office manager was a Force Recon Marine while the commander was a SEAL. Any character who was in the Army was a Ranger. 2LT James of SGU described herself as USAF Special Forces. Except for I'm just a cook Airman Becker you have to ask what do regular forces do. As they use Special Forces as gate guards when a wormhole opens up.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

It really depends on whether or not the military personal on Destiny are special forces.

I was not in special forces during my time in the Army, but I did work(and spar in the gym) with special forces several times while in Iraq, and I even visited their outpost north of us on a supply run once.

At a certain level in the American armed forces all the normal customs and courtesies just go out the window. While working with SF I saw NCOs calling officers by their first names, beards all over the place, uniforms and weapons worn in all sorts of strange exotic ways. There was zero uniformity and the normal bearing and discipline of my own regular Army unit were not visible in the SF guys.

So I give the folks on Destiny some leeway when it comes to the little details. They're even further away from authority and normalcy than the backwaters of Iraq's Diyala province.

TV rule, all characters are Special Forces. You can't write Navy without adding SEAL its the law. Jethro Gibbs of NCIS was a Marine MP and a Scout/Sniper. On JAG the office manager was a Force Recon Marine while the commander was a SEAL. Any character who was in the Army was a Ranger. 2LT James of SGU described herself as USAF Special Forces. Except for I'm just a cook Airman Becker you have to ask what do regular forces do. As they use Special Forces as gate guards when a wormhole opens up.

Well, in the case of Stargate it makes sense that everybody is special forces. These are not regular people. They travel through frakking wormholes into distant parts of the galaxy to fight Goa'uld, Ori, and Wraith. And everything they do is top secret. If I were in charge of the Stargate program I would only recruit special forces for the project.

 

[Caliburn24]

If we had a Stargate, I would expect special forces to be involved in the program almost exclusively. I have no problem with that idea.

I mean it would be awesome to see a regular Army armored regiment in specially designed Stargate-fitable vehicles(Stargate Infinity for the win!) stage a massive 4,000 soldier assault on a Lucian Alliance world, but we'll never see that.

As to TV shows always having their ex-military characters be ex-SEALs/Delta/Ranger whatever, yeah, its a well played TV trope. Magnum was an ex-SEAL(as were all his buddies), heck the deputy in the latest episode of Justified was an ex-Ranger sniper.

There is a glitz, glamour and sexiness that goes with anything related to Special Forces that TV and movies just love to co-opt.

 

[mtblillie]

The funny thing that gets me is that the base used for SGC has military personnel from all branches of the military but you only see Air Force and Marines.

The Navy helped quarantine the russian sub that was taken over by replicators, though you never saw any personnel I dont think, just glimpses of the ships around the harbor.

I always thought the Green Berets would be good for working with the rebel Jaffa, since that has typically been a mission type of GB since Vietnam.

 

[Star Wolf]

I don't know any special force Marines but from other Marines all you hear is that the Corps itself is a special force. And the Corps itself is more formal then the Army and Air Force in its common usage of rank and title.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Forces_Special_Operations_Command

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Wasn't there talk awhile back that the US Air Force would change its name to US Aerospace Force? That would seem to make sense, IMHO.

 

[Star Wolf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps_Forces_Special_Operations_Command

That much I knew. My question goes towards military culture. My pastor was a recon marine in the early 60s before Vietnam and he doesn't speak of his service as being above and beyond or different then other Marines except for jump school stories. I'm the only ex US soldier at a Marine heavy church.

 

[The Wormhole]

The funny thing that gets me is that the base used for SGC has military personnel from all branches of the military but you only see Air Force and Marines.

The Navy helped quarantine the russian sub that was taken over by replicators, though you never saw any personnel I dont think, just glimpses of the ships around the harbor.

Weren't those SEALs that O'Neill and Teal'c were with when they boarded the sub?

Anyway, it is odd that Air Force and Marines are the primary US military brances seen in Stargate. The Army and Navy have been virtually ignored. The largest confirmed US Navy presence on screen in the entire Stargate franchise was Continuum, when they filmed on board the actual sub and featured its actual crew. Meanwhile, the only time we see anyone from the US Army in all of Stargate was General Francis Maynard in Inauguration and Lost City. I know the Stargate program is run by the Air Force, and the US Air Force even coordinated with the producers for SG-1, but in the 13 years that there has been Stargate on television and 16 since the release of the original movie, you'd think they could find a bit more for the Army and Navy.

I find it interesting, that whenever they show the Russians, it's almost exclusively the Russian Army we see. It was a Russian Army base their Stargate program was being run, a Russian Army team that joined SG-1 on the mission through the Goa'uld tomb, the Russian SG team in season 6 consisted of Army personnel, Colonel Chekov was an Army officer, and in a final twist of oddity, the Korolev was staffed by an Army crew. Seriously, I can accept the Air Force crewing a starship since space falls under the Air Force's defense jurisdiction. I can also understand the argument that the Navy should be crewing a starship since ships are a Navy thing. But why would the Army of any country be operating a starship?

The only exceptions to these examples are the Russian sub in S4 which was clearly the Russian Navy, and the SGC's Rusian liason officer in S8's Lockdown (they guy Anubis tagged along with) was a Russian Air Force officer.

 

[Caliburn24]

You know who operates this ship and her sisters?

The US Navy has one of them...

And the US Army runs the other two.

During WWII the Army had over 120,000 ships and watercraft. And even today it has quite a few large vessels.

I'm not as familiar with the Russian military, but it wouldn't surprise me a bit if their Army has more clout than the other services.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm starting to think that Canada might have a point...you know, with its single, unified military and all that.

 

[clint g]

I'm starting to think that Canada might have a point...you know, with its single, unified military and all that.

I would sooner cut my throat out than be in the same command as the marines

 

[Star Wolf]

The funny thing that gets me is that the base used for SGC has military personnel from all branches of the military but you only see Air Force and Marines.

The Navy helped quarantine the russian sub that was taken over by replicators, though you never saw any personnel I dont think, just glimpses of the ships around the harbor.

Weren't those SEALs that O'Neill and Teal'c were with when they boarded the sub?

Anyway, it is odd that Air Force and Marines are the primary US military brances seen in Stargate. The Army and Navy have been virtually ignored. The largest confirmed US Navy presence on screen in the entire Stargate franchise was Continuum, when they filmed on board the actual sub and featured its actual crew. Meanwhile, the only time we see anyone from the US Army in all of Stargate was General Francis Maynard in Inauguration and Lost City. I know the Stargate program is run by the Air Force, and the US Air Force even coordinated with the producers for SG-1, but in the 13 years that there has been Stargate on television and 16 since the release of the original movie, you'd think they could find a bit more for the Army and Navy.

I find it interesting, than whenever they show the Russians, it's almost exclusively the Russian Army we see. It was a Russian Army base their Stargate program was being run, a Russian Army team that joined SG-1 on the mission through the Goa'uld tomb, the Russian SG team in season 6 consisted of Army personnel, Colonel Chekov was an Army officer, and in a final twist of oddity, the Korolev was staffed by an Army crew. Seriously, I can accept the Air Force crewing a starship since space falls under the Air Force's defense jurisdiction. I can also understand the argument that the Navy should be crewing a starship since ships are a Navy thing. But why would the Army of any country be operating a starship?

The only exceptions to these examples are the Russian sub in S4 which was clearly the Russian Navy, and the SGC's Rusian liason officer in S8's Lockdown (they guy Anubis tagged along with) was a Russian Air Force officer.

Like the USAF ran the land based nuke missiles in the US which lead to their being the lead in the Space Command, thus Stargate Command, the Soviet Army ran their Strategic Rocket Program

 

[The Wormhole]

During WWII the Army had over 120,000 ships and watercraft. And even today it has quite a few large vessels.

Admittedly my own ignorance regarding the military is playing against me here. But, if there is a real life precedent for other branches of the US military other than the Navy to have and crew boats, than why are so many upset that the Air Force would crew a starship? In light of what I know now, it seems to me a logical extension of how things are in real life.

That being said, I still think it odd for there to be such a large Army presence on the Korolev, particularly among its bridge officers. For one thing, piloting a starship would probably a job they'd give to a really skilled pilot. Not to slam the Russian Army, but I would think you'd find more more qualified pilots in the Air Force than in the Army. But maybe I'm again out to lunch. My knowledge of military, Russian military at that isn't quite up to par.

 

[Star Wolf]

During WWII the Army had over 120,000 ships and watercraft. And even today it has quite a few large vessels.

Admittedly my own ignorance regarding the military is playing against me here. But, if there is a real life precedent for other branches of the US military other than the Navy to have and crew boats, than why are so many upset that the Air Force would crew a starship? In light of what I know now, it seems to me a logical extension of how things are in real life.

That being said, I still think it odd for there to be such a large Army presence on the Korolev, particularly among its bridge officers. For one thing, piloting a starship would probably a job they'd give to a really skilled pilot. Not to slam the Russian Army, but I would think you'd find more more qualified pilots in the Air Force than in the Army. But maybe I'm again out to lunch. My knowledge of military, Russian military at that isn't quite up to par.

Perhaps because all the so called tactics and evasive actions really wouldn't happen at the ranges and speed space combat would happen. For the tactics I've seen by the big ships on Stargate, where the so called ship must stay in the picture frame, the Wraith of Khan tactic rarely comes into effect. The large space craft, which many think must be a Navy ship, might as well be an army tank caught in the open as it uses its armor and tries to hold out until it achieves fire superiority.

 

[mtblillie]

During WWII the Army had over 120,000 ships and watercraft. And even today it has quite a few large vessels.

Admittedly my own ignorance regarding the military is playing against me here. But, if there is a real life precedent for other branches of the US military other than the Navy to have and crew boats, than why are so many upset that the Air Force would crew a starship? In light of what I know now, it seems to me a logical extension of how things are in real life.

That being said, I still think it odd for there to be such a large Army presence on the Korolev, particularly among its bridge officers. For one thing, piloting a starship would probably a job they'd give to a really skilled pilot. Not to slam the Russian Army, but I would think you'd find more more qualified pilots in the Air Force than in the Army. But maybe I'm again out to lunch. My knowledge of military, Russian military at that isn't quite up to par.

Perhaps because all the so called tactics and evasive actions really wouldn't happen at the ranges and speed space combat would happen. For the tactics I've seen by the big ships on Stargate, where the so called ship must stay in the picture frame, the Wraith of Khan tactic rarely comes into effect. The large space craft, which many think must be a Navy ship, might as well be an army tank caught in the open as it uses its armor and tries to hold out until it achieves fire superiority.

I agree, while star trek isnt the only reference to having naval traditions on a space ship, it is that franchise that made that more of a common idea.
It is more likely that the Air Force would run a starship program (that is one reason why I liked Enterprise a lot, it had sort of a NASA/Air Force feel to it, rather than just Navy).

And to clarify, Star Fleet is not a Navy, it just takes on Naval traditions in dealing with starships (comparing the whole big space ship to a big naval ship with similar circumstances; being out in the open frotier).

Also it has always been sci fi thing to have starships being similar to naval ships and having space battles being similar to naval battles. Ships probebly won't fly linearly when they maneuver like a ship does, there is no reason to assume they would. If you ask a scientist today what a space battle would look like they would probebly say that the ships that would fight each other would use the characteristics of space to fight, such as manuevering at angles rather than lines, but then again that isn't very imaginative.