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DS9 was the best series......by far.

Mr. Scott

Commander
That's what I say,

DS9 is the best Star Trek series of all of them, including TOS. That show was a perfect storm of great talent and great stories.

Voyager and Enterprise was overblown garbage. TNG was good, but was stupid about half of the time. DS9 rocked. This show was Star Trek. The writing and the acting of this program just outshown the rest.

I will even say that DS9 stands alone as the best science fiction show that was ever on television.

Agree, disagree?
 
DS9 had the best character development, and best continuity. to me though, it's on a par with TNG as the best series. Most of the great Trek eps come from these series. I can only name two from Voyager, which overall was a good but not great show (Scorpion and The Killing Game).
 
That's what I say,

and you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

This show was Star Trek.

umm, no. this show was Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.

Star Trek was, and still is Star Trek.


Agree, disagree?

I umm, respectfully disagree and stuff.

DS9 was pretty cool though. in fact, I'm about to start watchin' it again soon.

DS9 had the best character development, and best continuity.

yeah, I agree here, it was a fun ride until WYLB.

Disagree.
DS9 wasn't just the best science fiction show ever, it was the best TV series ever.

ok, I just have to ask:

what do you think was the second best TV series ever?
 
I agree with the thread title, and everything in the OP except that "TNG was good." TNG had the exact same problems as VOY and ENT and hence was every bit as bad as them.
 
might be a little better than tng and considerably superior to tos, but no challenge for voyager and enterprise. had it's strenghts, the ferengi were a great people, and abysmal weaknesses. in particular the main villains founders, vorta, jem-hadar.one-dimensional, ill-conceived, implausible. no competition for sphere-builders and xindi, borg and 8472. ds9 produced few very silly episodes, granted, but also none of the quality of living witness, timeless, observer effect, and chosen realm.
 
I think it's the best one, but I wouldn't say by very much. TNG and TOS are very good in their own right.
 
That's what I say,

DS9 is the best Star Trek series of all of them, including TOS. That show was a perfect storm of great talent and great stories.
Agree that is is the best Trek series, with great talent and stories (thought not perfect).

Voyager and Enterprise was overblown garbage.
Don't agree. Voyager was an average show with occasional good episodes, and ENT had a couple of average seasons and a couple of really good ones. I would describe neithe as "garbage".

TNG was good, but was stupid about half of the time.
Half-agree. It was certainly stupid in most of the first 2 seasons, and occasionally later, but later seasons were generally better than the early TNG.

This show was Star Trek.
It was. And so were the original series, TAS, TNG, VOY, 11 movies, and ENT. ;)

I will even say that DS9 stands alone as the best science fiction show that was ever on television.
It's one of the best for sure, but I wouldn't say it stands alone as there a few other that present a competition.


Disagree.
DS9 wasn't just the best science fiction show ever, it was the best TV series ever.
I wouldn't go that far.

in particular the main villains founders, vorta, jem-hadar.one-dimensional, ill-conceived, implausible. no competition for sphere-builders and xindi, borg and 8472.
I get it, this is a joke. And it's hilarious. :guffaw: :bolian:
ds9 produced few very silly episodes, granted, but also none of the quality of living witness, timeless, observer effect, and chosen realm.
Must be another joke? Would have worked better if you didn't list one really good episode with two average ones and one really bad one (in an otherwise excellent season of ENT).
 
Best Trek series? I'd say it's DS9 or TOS, depending on the criteria.

Best Sci-fi series? I'd say DS9 is in the conversation. At its best, it hits very hard on a lot of different levels, and it can seem eerily prophetic at times. However, DS9 can also be frustratingly mediocre and uneven. The show is very fertile ground, you can feel the creative energy percolating through it, however not all the seeds planted come to fruition and there are a lot of weeds that are taking up space were the crops should be. Not that other shows don't have their ups and downs, but DS9 can be absolutely all over the map: there are times when it is so intensely awesome that I want to christen DS9 the greatest show of all time and others when I just sit there asking myself what the hell they were thinking.
 
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DS9 is by far the best Trek show... mainly because it's SO MUCH BETTER at writing humans (though to be honest i still think it falls short of general good television drama writing but that's a different story).

I can't imagine, say, the Voyager writers, being able to write something like the strong genuinely heart-warming LONG TIME bond between Sisko and Jake. The interweaving relationships, the way DS9 developed HALF A DOZEN OR MORE supporting characters into full flesh and blood characters... Nog, Rom, Weyoun, Dukat (pre pah wraith nonsense), Damar, Martok, Garak, the list goes on and on.

I also love the way DS9 threw caution to the wind and bucks all the "ooh you can't do that in star trek" crap that hamstrung the writing of other series. multi-episode arcs? Sure! last conflict? yes! Holodeck episodes with no silly artificial peril? that's what holodeck episodes should be (though i'd rather there be no holodecks, that's another story). Portray the Federation as more realistic instead of pompous always-right goodie-two-shoes? Hell yes. Even the little tihngs... like letting Quark make his argument for the merits of the Ferengi race without some sort of last word by Sisko... Sisko's talk to Jake about the Bajoran religion in the S1 finale.

DS9 is what really killed Voyager for me. I was watching Voyager kind of regularly, then syndication where I lived put DS9 on right before UPN's Voyager airing. That did it. It was like having a filet mignon then being presented with a mcdonalds burger. It's edible if you're starving... but man its not a good meal. I remember watching "By Inferno's Light" (I think, part 1 of the 'cardassia joins the dominion two parter) and then some Voyager episode came on right afterwards, and I laughed out loud at the thought of taking this show seriously. I distinctly remember some nonsense alien of the week, and some technobabble, and a whole lot of eye-rolling from me.

None of the other shows (except maybe TOS in the 1st two seasons ironically enough) could even sniff something like "Necessary Evil".
 
No, TNG was. Highly entertaining and consistent from seasons 3-6. A cast where I liked all the characters.

DS9 was good but mainly in its sweeping arcs and really was at its best the last few years when the more interesting recurring cast took center stage. I loved its unpredictability and willingness to shake up the status quo and cleverly use the established Trek universe in interesting ways but it was uneven at times and a lot of things like the romance, Ferengi, silly episodes just didn't work.
I will even say that DS9 stands alone as the best science fiction show that was ever on television.

Agree, disagree?
No. LOST was far more consistent, ambitious, epic in terms of its storytelling and expansive cast of characters. DS9 had a bad habit of dropping the more interesting Dominion stuff and doing stuff that was not very interesting.
 
DS9 is what really killed Voyager for me. I was watching Voyager kind of regularly, then syndication where I lived put DS9 on right before UPN's Voyager airing. That did it. It was like having a filet mignon then being presented with a mcdonalds burger. It's edible if you're starving... but man its not a good meal. I remember watching "By Inferno's Light" (I think, part 1 of the 'cardassia joins the dominion two parter) and then some Voyager episode came on right afterwards, and I laughed out loud at the thought of taking this show seriously. I distinctly remember some nonsense alien of the week, and some technobabble, and a whole lot of eye-rolling from me.
Darkling was the VOY episode that aired the same week as By Inferno's Light. Yeah, that's an apples-and-prunes comparison if there ever was one.
 
ds9 produced few very silly episodes, granted, but also none of the quality of living witness, timeless, observer effect, and chosen realm.
Must be another joke? Would have worked better if you didn't list one really good episode with two average ones and one really bad one (in an otherwise excellent season of ENT).
out of curiosity, which is the bad one? chosen realm? you can't be serious, that's a fine appraisal of religion.
 
DS9 is definitely my favourite series. The story and characters of the show were superior to the others. The failing of the other modern Trek for me has been that I have found too many or most of the main characters have been a uninteresting. Each series did have episodes I liked but in the end none of them did enough to make me want to watch them from start to finish. As for TOS, it is an odd case. I had seen maybe half a dozen episodes but it was the fact it was remastered that got me to watch it all.

Since DS9 finished few space sci-fi shows have really grabbed me. I think Farscape might be the only one that has compelled me enough to watch all of it and I have to say that hearing the TV guide compare Enterprise to Farscape as a "lumbering dinosaur" is generally how I feel about Trek following the end of DS9.
 
I also love the way DS9 threw caution to the wind and bucks all the "ooh you can't do that in star trek" crap that hamstrung the writing of other series. multi-episode arcs? Sure! last conflict? yes! Holodeck episodes with no silly artificial peril? that's what holodeck episodes should be (though i'd rather there be no holodecks, that's another story). Portray the Federation as more realistic instead of pompous always-right goodie-two-shoes? Hell yes. Even the little tihngs... like letting Quark make his argument for the merits of the Ferengi race without some sort of last word by Sisko... Sisko's talk to Jake about the Bajoran religion in the S1 finale.

Couldn'thave said it better myself. the series could have been better though if the studio gave the writers more freedom rather than demanding shake ups.Sure itnever had the tng ratings but it was still very sucessful. One of tvs best scifi shows but i like different shows for different reasons.
 
If the show stopped at season 6 I would agree. But season 7 might have single handedly destroyed the show and made it right there with Voyager. There's just so many flaws with that single season. It might be the worst in all of Star Trek history.
 
If the show stopped at season 6 I would agree. But season 7 might have single handedly destroyed the show and made it right there with Voyager. There's just so many flaws with that single season. It might be the worst in all of Star Trek history.

I've never understood nor agreed with this viewpoint. Season 7 may have had a few bad ideas, but nothing so bad that I'd want to stop watching after season 6, or say that it's worse than TNG's first two seasons, or Voyager's second season, for example.
 
Indeed, what is so bad about season 7? Sure, the Prophet/Pah-wraith stuff was weak, and I can understand some people not liking Ezri, and I can understand how some of the mid-season episodes felt like fluff. But overall season 7 is still very solid (in my opinion) and it provided the show with some classic episodes, such as Treachery, Faith and the Great River, Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges and Tacking Into the Wind. What they did with Cardassia in the final arc was one of the best things the show ever did, Cardassia at the end of the show was in a similar situation as Bajor at the start of the show, there was a feeling that things had come full-circle. I really enjoy season 7 and I'd put it up there with seasons 5 & 6.
 
If the show stopped at season 6 I would agree. But season 7 might have single handedly destroyed the show and made it right there with Voyager. There's just so many flaws with that single season. It might be the worst in all of Star Trek history.

I've never understood nor agreed with this viewpoint. Season 7 may have had a few bad ideas, but nothing so bad that I'd want to stop watching after season 6, or say that it's worse than TNG's first two seasons, or Voyager's second season, for example.


I can go down the list if you want. There's really not that much to like about the 7th season.

Lets start from the beginning. The first episodes you have a lot of things that are disturbing.

Basically you find out Sisko is half profit then he gets stabbed for no apparent reason and IT WAS NEVER EXPLAINED! If a main character gets explained don't you investigate why? Then after being stabbed suddenly Sisko recovers immediately then goes on a mission then suddenly some child like character comes in and says she's Dax.

You replace a Dax with a weaker child basically to play that role. A role with 10 life times basically becomes a whiney little child like character. Look at Ezri she complains nearly all the time. I came from kinda liking Dax before to hating Dax just like that. When Jadzia was Dax I remember some people complaining that she wasn't a strong enough character. I kinda disagree but I can understand that a little bit. But you replace her with a character that weak.

The Bajorans who had no idea that there was a wormhole 5 years before and were faith based, most of their people didn't need orb of anything to have their faith. You don't see someone go from being a christian then for some reason losing all faith then praise Satan for almost no real reason. Yet that's exactly what a portion of the Bajorans do. They suddenly start praising Hell.

Was having a holographic bar really necessary when you have Quarks? I understand having a similar thing in Voyager. It actually fits in that show a little better. But we already have a bar where everyone hangs out in Quarks on DS9. Why have the entire Vic Fontane thing? Yeah Quark doesn't sing but he's pretty much better at everything else than Vic is. There was no need for this entire thing on the show. And I don't see Quark allowing for something like that also because it would be bad for his business to have another bar. Really the only reason to have it was someone singing a couple 50s Sinatra type songs and I have great respect for Sinatra. It just doesn't make sense for a SciFi show.

After basically dominating the war for most of 2 years the Dominion suddenly become dumb. Yes the Federation did start to fight back and gain some ground in season 6. Won back the station but still things weren't going great for the Federation. Then come the Breen. How do you create a character that everyone understands what they say except the viewer. Do they really think the viewer is that stupid? The only reason to add that type of character is to laugh at it because it's a stupid character. And it's not like the Breen were ever really thought of as a big deal in the history of Star Trek. They were always a back ground type character in TNG. Suddenly they have a weapon that the Federation can't beat? Where did this come from?

The other part of the Dominion being dumbed down is that they were basically beat by group of Cardasians and Kira led by an alcoholic back ground character for most of the show. I still don't understand how they tried to make Damar a leader. I didn't see him as a leader at any point. He's Dukat's 2nd in command then he's the 2nd command to the Dominion and an alcoholic. Even when he becomes an underground leader the only reason they show him as a leader is because he says he is. He never actually does anything as a leader. Somehow that group beats the unbeatable dominion. Granted he dies at the end but even that was emotionless.

Now the worst thing of DS9 or any Star Trek ever. The entire Dukat/Winn thing. All of it is awful. It starts with Dukat in season 6 coming from nowhere senselessly kills Dax with fire power from the Pah-Rates, closes wormhole which hurts his side in the war does no real bad for the Federation at all. Darkens the orbs and somehow the Bajorans start losing their faith. Again read above on the Bajoran thing. But he laughably disguises himself as a Bajoran. How the hell was he not caught? I laughed when I first saw him walk on as a Bajoran. Somehow Winn buys it and when she finds outs she converts to Satanism anyway.

Winn and Dukat in the first 6 seasons were always bad but you could understand their motives in someways. Winn was just misguided in her faith. Dukat just wanted what was best for him and his people. Now they both basically become Satanists and this really comes out of nowhere except for Dukat being completely insane because his daughter was killed by the same guy that somehow leads a rebellion on Cardasia against the Dominion.

Now to the end. First off I still don't get the Bashir/Dax thing. I mean WHY? That really served no purpose except to put 2 characters together. Just like 7 and Chackotay getting together the last episode. I still don't get it. But you have Odo leaving to heal his people who are evil and just tried to take over the Alpha quadrant and have been the same way for thousands of years. Yet he expects to change that attitude. Yeah right! Sisko leaves to save Bajor from Satan(Dukat) in the Fire caves in a real weak fight. and leaves his wife and baby alone. Worf leaves for basically no reason. Miles leaves also. Why does everyone have to leave in the last show? That basically destroys any chance for a future TV movie or mini series or anything like any fans want. I can understand having Sisko go to Profit heaven to be with the profits but why does everyone leave?

I can really go on and on about season 7. It's all around awful. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
 
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