Jadzia or Ezri?
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I liked Ezri because she was vulnerable and unsure of herself. She was the polar opposite of Jadzia, and that was a good thing, IMO.
I think the issue of the quality of "vulnerability" deserves some observation.
Folks, vulnerability is NOT the same as "weakness". The best way I can describe it is: the "air" many girls have, which appeals to a man's sense of protectiveness.
As Shran has pointed out, a major part of Ezri's charm is her vulnerability--i.e. the tendency to ellicit from men desire to protect her.
Now, in another thread, someone claimed that Julian Bashir seems attracted to women who are "messed up". Not at all...what attracts him is this quality. Vulnerability is "sexy" because it highly appeals to masculinity, because it make a man feel heroic, as he feels the desire and the capability to defend and protect this girl.
This feeling, interestingly enough, is actually intensified when the girl is not "weak", or simple. If she were, she would only be a "clinging" kind of woman, the actual "victim"--who a man feels no heroism towards. But a virtuous girl of intelligence, idealism, and integrity, a girl of great inner strength and beauty--in short, a heroine--is a girl worth protecting, as far as the masculine element goes.
Here's a few examples:
In "The Seige of Ar-558", Ezri dicusses with Kellin her memories of the battlefield. She brings up the fact that this is her--Ezri's--first time on the front lines. Kellin reassures her that she'll do fine...and I think you can see that her moment of vulnerability has affected him--it's a sort of "don't worry...I'm here for you."
In "Field of Fire", Julian and Ezri look over Ilario's coffin. Ezri starts relflecting on Joran, and Julian tries to reassure her that "He's nothing like you." Eventually, Ezri tenses up as she brings up "The thought of someone like him--being here right now..." and Julian puts a hand on her shoulder, gently telling her to get some rest. (Note that she calms down a bit as he does this.)
Finally, in "Till Death Do Us Part", after the Breen probe her mind, she's barely concious as she's thrown back into the cell with Worf. You can see the effect her vulnerability has on him, as he tends to her in an uncharacteristically gentle manner.
Folks, vulnerability is NOT the same as "weakness". The best way I can describe it is: the "air" many girls have, which appeals to a man's sense of protectiveness.
As Shran has pointed out, a major part of Ezri's charm is her vulnerability--i.e. the tendency to ellicit from men desire to protect her.
Now, in another thread, someone claimed that Julian Bashir seems attracted to women who are "messed up". Not at all...what attracts him is this quality. Vulnerability is "sexy" because it highly appeals to masculinity, because it make a man feel heroic, as he feels the desire and the capability to defend and protect this girl.
This feeling, interestingly enough, is actually intensified when the girl is not "weak", or simple. If she were, she would only be a "clinging" kind of woman, the actual "victim"--who a man feels no heroism towards. But a virtuous girl of intelligence, idealism, and integrity, a girl of great inner strength and beauty--in short, a heroine--is a girl worth protecting, as far as the masculine element goes.
Here's a few examples:
In "The Seige of Ar-558", Ezri dicusses with Kellin her memories of the battlefield. She brings up the fact that this is her--Ezri's--first time on the front lines. Kellin reassures her that she'll do fine...and I think you can see that her moment of vulnerability has affected him--it's a sort of "don't worry...I'm here for you."
In "Field of Fire", Julian and Ezri look over Ilario's coffin. Ezri starts relflecting on Joran, and Julian tries to reassure her that "He's nothing like you." Eventually, Ezri tenses up as she brings up "The thought of someone like him--being here right now..." and Julian puts a hand on her shoulder, gently telling her to get some rest. (Note that she calms down a bit as he does this.)
Finally, in "Till Death Do Us Part", after the Breen probe her mind, she's barely concious as she's thrown back into the cell with Worf. You can see the effect her vulnerability has on him, as he tends to her in an uncharacteristically gentle manner.
Saquist
Commodore
I liked Ezri because she was vulnerable and unsure of herself. She was the polar opposite of Jadzia, and that was a good thing, IMO.[/QUOTE]
I like women that can take charge.
I don't like them emotionally weak and dependent.
I want a thinker and equal.
I want a confidant.
The only part I believe Ezri fits is...confidant.
I don't see the difference. That which is weak must be protected. I don't subcomb to that .."male " need be a protector. It doesn't describes my wants and desires.
I barely remember. But we're not talking actions. She's a Dax after all and not drawing on her host but upon Dax.
I believe this is in reference to a previous post of mine. See I'd actually contend that Bashir is attracted to 'messed up' women rather than (or even as well as) vulnerability. While they are incredibly separate qualities and people can possess both, Bashir does do seem to go for women who he knows will potentially break up with him due to their own personal issues. (I argued this previously that he does it so he can not feel at fault when/if the relationship does end and can keep his ego intact.)
I know people who do seem to seek this subconsciously, sure it may not be deliberate but a pattern does seem to pop-out.
It does seem to play to Bashir's qualities, and even though he is a fictional character and we're discussing something the writers probably never intended, it does seem to fit him incredibly well.
Even if that's so--I hardly think he'd expect Ezri to break up with him. Whatever her personal problems may be, none of them would have possibly warranted a break up.
Remember, the seeds for the eventual rift appeared three months after they started.
Remember, the seeds for the eventual rift appeared three months after they started.
(Come on. 16 points behind?
We can do better than that!!!)
Now...somebody seems to think that Ezri's not a thinker.
Look--you can't be a psycologist without being a thinker--a deep thinker. And for proof, look no further than her first big episode, "Afterimage".
When she discovers what Garak's problem really is, the writers apparently intended for her to "sort of stumble on it". But if you look at the scene (thanks to Miss deBoer's acting skills), it's clear she's analyzing the problem. Particularly, just when it seems like Ezri's about to leave, and Garak gets all tense, Ezri turns, and asks, a bit too casually, "Are you all right?"--with an innocent look on her face.
It's as if she brought up Kalandra, and the codes Garak broke, with a hidden agenda in mind--to test a theory she'd developed.
When she narrows her eyes, and presses further, I think one can easily see her mental wheels turning like mad.
Now, as for her being "emotionally weak"--she is certainly very intense in the expression of her emotions. She may have been "unstable" in the beginning--but it is obvious, in the aforementioned episode, that she quickly pulls herself out of the gutter, as it were. Her self-confidence builds up quickly. She is internally very strong, indeed.
Nonetheless, part of her charm is her humility--i.e., her willingness to recognize her limits, and accept help when needed. (And of course her humility decreases in the relaunch. Go figure.)
But, more than anything else, I think the biggest element of her charm is her warmth--how pleasant she is with others. Her smile is far more contagious than Jadzia's--and that's saying a lot. She projects her emotions with an authenticity that Jadzia doens't have--and that honesty, and winesomness, is, I think, much of what we, her fans, love about her.
We can do better than that!!!)
Now...somebody seems to think that Ezri's not a thinker.
Look--you can't be a psycologist without being a thinker--a deep thinker. And for proof, look no further than her first big episode, "Afterimage".
When she discovers what Garak's problem really is, the writers apparently intended for her to "sort of stumble on it". But if you look at the scene (thanks to Miss deBoer's acting skills), it's clear she's analyzing the problem. Particularly, just when it seems like Ezri's about to leave, and Garak gets all tense, Ezri turns, and asks, a bit too casually, "Are you all right?"--with an innocent look on her face.
It's as if she brought up Kalandra, and the codes Garak broke, with a hidden agenda in mind--to test a theory she'd developed.
When she narrows her eyes, and presses further, I think one can easily see her mental wheels turning like mad.
Now, as for her being "emotionally weak"--she is certainly very intense in the expression of her emotions. She may have been "unstable" in the beginning--but it is obvious, in the aforementioned episode, that she quickly pulls herself out of the gutter, as it were. Her self-confidence builds up quickly. She is internally very strong, indeed.
Nonetheless, part of her charm is her humility--i.e., her willingness to recognize her limits, and accept help when needed. (And of course her humility decreases in the relaunch. Go figure.)
But, more than anything else, I think the biggest element of her charm is her warmth--how pleasant she is with others. Her smile is far more contagious than Jadzia's--and that's saying a lot. She projects her emotions with an authenticity that Jadzia doens't have--and that honesty, and winesomness, is, I think, much of what we, her fans, love about her.
One of these days I'm going to get around to reading the relaunch. The only book from it I've read so far is The Lives of Dax, and that isn't technically part of it. However, if they screw up Ezri's chararacterization, I'll be very disappointed.
Exactly. Jadzia would probably be very fun to party with; but I honestly can't see how someone would want a serious romantic relationship with her, unless he's one of those types that liked pain and combat.... oh wait.But, more than anything else, I think the biggest element of her charm is her warmth--how pleasant she is with others. Her smile is far more contagious than Jadzia's--and that's saying a lot. She projects her emotions with an authenticity that Jadzia doens't have--and that honesty, and winesomness, is, I think, much of what we, her fans, love about her.
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Be prepared, as the Scouts say.
In Avatar, she starts to seriously experiment with integrating her past hosts into herself. This leads to an unforunate moment when, duing a passionate night with Julian--she unintentionally lapses into Jadzia mode,speaking in her voice, etc. Julian gets spooked at this, Ezri gets defensive, their relationship is strained. They get reconciled later, when Julian almost dies.
In the second Mission Gamma book, Ezri volunteers to lead an effort to stop a civil war. Julian worries that maybe she's taking on way too much--that she has to step back and think about this-- Ezri gets really ticked off, accusing him of not respecting her abilities, etc. This is her arc's biggest low point--but by the end of the book, she gets some sense knocked into her, and she humbly acknowledges that he had been right.
Finally, in Unjoined, the same kind of thing happens. Ezri somehow gets the idea that Julian's actually in love with the part of her that was Jadzia. Julian tries to reconcile, but Ezri brings that up--and the idea that their coming together not knowing if they'd survive the first day doesen't bode well for a stable relationship. (I call "bull" on that.)
In the second Mission Gamma book, Ezri volunteers to lead an effort to stop a civil war. Julian worries that maybe she's taking on way too much--that she has to step back and think about this-- Ezri gets really ticked off, accusing him of not respecting her abilities, etc. This is her arc's biggest low point--but by the end of the book, she gets some sense knocked into her, and she humbly acknowledges that he had been right.
Finally, in Unjoined, the same kind of thing happens. Ezri somehow gets the idea that Julian's actually in love with the part of her that was Jadzia. Julian tries to reconcile, but Ezri brings that up--and the idea that their coming together not knowing if they'd survive the first day doesen't bode well for a stable relationship. (I call "bull" on that.)
I actually have a tale out, "A Rendezvous With Destiny", that refers to this. It's in the fanfic forum, if you're interested, Shran.
Exactly. Jadzia would probably be very fun to party with; but I honestly can't see how someone would want a serious romantic relationship with her, unless he's one of those types that liked pain and combat.... oh wait.But, more than anything else, I think the biggest element of her charm is her warmth--how pleasant she is with others. Her smile is far more contagious than Jadzia's--and that's saying a lot. She projects her emotions with an authenticity that Jadzia doens't have--and that honesty, and winesomness, is, I think, much of what we, her fans, love about her.
[/QUOTE]Amen.
That does sound disappointing about the relaunch. But, I'll still try to keep an open mind when I finally get around to reading it.
From what I've heard, a lot of it sounds very interesting.
From what I've heard, a lot of it sounds very interesting.
I'd have to go with Jadzia, though Ezri deserves points for sticking it out to the end.
I will say that their interation in Section 31: Abyss is very rewarding--and very much like what I would write for those two.
yeah, its a really good book. evil julian ftw. wont say more though. its worth reading.
Ezri Dax Fact:
Ezri Dax's smile melts the hearts of Borg drones. Resistance is futile.
(In case you're wondering...no, she wasn't in a smiling mood in Destiny. She isn't exactly aware of her own power....)
Ezri Dax's smile melts the hearts of Borg drones. Resistance is futile.
(In case you're wondering...no, she wasn't in a smiling mood in Destiny. She isn't exactly aware of her own power....)
Ezri Dax Fact:
Ezri Dax's smile melts the hearts of Borg drones. Resistance is futile.
(In case you're wondering...no, she wasn't in a smiling mood in Destiny. She isn't exactly aware of her own power....)
well i would be smiling either if they just killed 60 billion of my fellow citizens. but yeah i agree :-)
60 billion!? 
Damn, I got to get reading.
Damn, I got to get reading.
60 billion!?
Damn, I got to get reading.
yup. 60 billion isn't just your average war casualty. the dominion war was a fart in space compared to this. the destiny series are damn good books and its worth the read.
Ezri's got her own ship--probably the most powerful in the fleet--and she's almost a second James T. Kirk in the trilogy.
This girl is invincible.
More than I can say for Jadzia....
This girl is invincible.
More than I can say for Jadzia....
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