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"Across the Sea" Live Commentary

Very good episode. Definitely better than the Temple arc. I loved the deconstruction of the mythology (I usually do). The "guardianship" of the island exists not to protect the island per se, but the pockets of exotic matter contained therein--because proximity to the pockets heals and prolongs life, and close contact with the matter separates the consciousness from the body*. Jacob's Fake Mother, operating in a pre-modern paradigm, interprets this phenomenon in a religious or philosophical context. Jacob knows only that it turned his brother into Smokey, so he interprets it as a threat that must be contained. The Dharma Initiative interprets it scientifically, as exotic matter that breaks the rules of space and time, and digs up the Orchid well. So Jacob orders the Others to purge the DI. But to Smokey, it's nothing more than a shortcut home.

Now, Smokey's home isn't any particular place. We've known since he visited Jack off-island that he can travel to different places. His home has to be a different time, as well. Among his native people--perhaps even with his late mother. He intends to travel to the distant past, where he can live out the life his fake mother denied him. I suspect he never planned on taking the plane off the island; that was just a ruse to get the candidates to kill each other. He always intended to push the wheel. He built it, he knows how to operate it, he can control his exit point and emerge wherever--and whenever--he wants. He could take the plane, if only he had a Daniel Faraday to calculate a course that would put him when he wants to be. But he doesn't--unless he had Horace working on a special project out in his cabin all those years ago.

* The Man in Black's consciousness now animates the smoke. Desmond's consciousness played Pong through time when he discharged the Swan, and hopped through the multiverse when Widmore recreated that event. Juliet briefly became aware of the multiverse when she died after nuking the Swan site. Walt's consciousness traveled through time and space to manifest on the island as Taller Ghost Walt. The various other ghosts were separated from their bodies at the moment of death and got stuck on the island. The Man in Black can apparently leave the island and travel through space, at least to visit the candidates, so he must be temporally tethered--that's why he can't just push the wheel. He has to kill the guardian and the candidates to break that tether.
 
Interesting, Delta. I like a lot of what you think, but not so much the last paragraph. I don't think Smokey's gone off-island any further than Hydra--and why he can go that far, I don't know. But maybe your tether idea is right, in some way. It would explain why he hasn't just left already.

As for what Nut!Mom was rubbing on her leg, I believe she was working the material into yarn for her weaving. No spinning wheel or spindle in sight.
 
^ I wonder what she was making. I think Jacob was working on that or something similar in the season 5 finale.

It's possible that it was just something to pass the time, but this is what Lost does... It makes you look for significance in every little thing. :lol:

Still, I wonder if it's important. :o
 
I think Jacob's whole weaving deal back in season 5 was to symbolize the way he was weaving the candidate's lives to bring them to the Island and prepare them to replace him. Having it in Across the Sea, and having it be his mother who teaches him, also makes it a little character bit, showing that he's still very much his mother's son all these centuries later.
 
So Smokey isn't really Jacob's brother either???

Sure he is. He's just dead.

Here's a question, though: the "I wish I could kill you scene" from Season 4 (5?)...when did that actually take place? It had to be post-MiB death, right? If so, how?
It took place in the late 1800s. If you recall, the Black Rock was just arriving.

What I don't get is if MIB built the wheel, but got killed before he could install it... who installed it and made it operational?
 
Was it ever confirmed that that ship was the Black Rock? I remember is looking remarkably NOT like the Black Rock.
 
Was it ever confirmed that that ship was the Black Rock? I remember is looking remarkably NOT like the Black Rock.
Yes, I believe Cuse and Lindelof confirmed it was the Black Rock, despite the odd weather discrepency between "The Incident" and "Ab Aeterno."
 
BRAVO Delta1, I think your on the right track there. Hopefully this will hold true, well, 'till next week & we'll have to come up w/ a new theory all-together ;-)

- W -
* I certainly hope we won't need a new one I like that one *
 
BRAVO Delta1, I think your on the right track there. Hopefully this will hold true, well, 'till next week & we'll have to come up w/ a new theory all-together ;-)

- W -
* I certainly hope we won't need a new one I like that one *


Yeah, but why should we be needing to "come up with a new theory" at all. Everything should be gelling into some theory by now. There's only 3+ hours left.

Instead, we get MIB appearing sympathetic after Damon/Lindleloff state he "evil, unquestionably" and Jacob appearing, well, dim-witted. Nobody has a damn answer?

I don't want everything all nicely wound up, it's fine to have a few things unanswered, but c'mon! What about the "have kids on the island and die" or "Dharma foundation" or Walt's and Aaron's "specialness."

Regarding the death of mothers, Aaron was born on the island, Clair lived (her craziness is besides the point). Sun's baby appears to have been conceived on the island--Sun didn't die from the baby nor is the baby dead.

It just seems that, after building up so much and dropping little hints the this or that is either important or revealing something about a particular character, some nice intertextuality, they just dropped it all. Because the only way they can answer half of the stuff is to have 2 hours of pure exposition. While not exciting, I'll take it for the answers over "how many of our cast can we kill before the end of the show?"
 
^^I almost wonder if Richard's line in late season 3 about how Ben was distracting the Others with silly pregnancy issues meant the whole thing was basically going to be dropped. Other than the bit with Reiko Aylesworth's Dharma character giving birth to Ethan in mid-season 5, it hasn't been touched on at all since then, so I don't know how they'd shoehorn in a reason this late in the game.
 
^^I almost wonder if Richard's line in late season 3 about how Ben was distracting the Others with silly pregnancy issues meant the whole thing was basically going to be dropped. Other than the bit with Reiko Aylesworth's Dharma character giving birth to Ethan in mid-season 5, it hasn't been touched on at all since then, so I don't know how they'd shoehorn in a reason this late in the game.

At this point, unless they explain it some other way, I'm guessing the pregnancy issues have to do with after-effects from The Incident. Ethan was born before The Incident.
 
^^I almost wonder if Richard's line in late season 3 about how Ben was distracting the Others with silly pregnancy issues meant the whole thing was basically going to be dropped. Other than the bit with Reiko Aylesworth's Dharma character giving birth to Ethan in mid-season 5, it hasn't been touched on at all since then, so I don't know how they'd shoehorn in a reason this late in the game.

At this point, unless they explain it some other way, I'm guessing the pregnancy issues have to do with after-effects from The Incident. Ethan was born before The Incident.


My point is you shouldn't have to guess. A single line would've been sufficient. But no, they built up a big mystery about it for well over a season. If the answer was so simple (and why not, it's as good a reason as most), why build up the mystery?

I'm assuming it's because either they were going in another direction and got "lost" (or just changed direction, or they had no idea where they were going. Even after building up the mystery, they could've had "We've been researching this for years and have finally concluded that it was The Incident." While that statement kinda sucks in phrasing, something better but essentially the same would've at least put it to rest.
 
Instead, we get MIB appearing sympathetic after Damon/Lindleloff state he "evil, unquestionably" and Jacob appearing, well, dim-witted.
By far the most confusing aspect of the show. The thing is, if we hadn't listened to the producers tell us "he's evil" it wouldn't have been an issue. I don't put all my stock in everything the producers say. Once a piece of art is produced, the artists can go on and on until the cows come home about the true meaning of it all, but the true meaning is really all in the experience of the person beholding the artwork. Case in point: Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451. To most readers, this is the definitive indictment of censorship. That wasn't at all Bradbury's intent. He spent years arguing with people that the book wasn't about censorship, it was about how television makes people stupid. Does that mean Bradbury is right and everyone else is wrong? Of course not.

Basically, I'm not going to listen to the producers anymore until after I've seen the finale. And even then, I'm only interested in their intent to a certain degree. I find their writing process interesting, but it won't be the final word on the series for me.

Regarding the death of mothers, Aaron was born on the island, Clair lived (her craziness is besides the point). Sun's baby appears to have been conceived on the island--Sun didn't die from the baby nor is the baby dead.
Well, I can understand why the story has been dropped. It was really only there in the first place to serve as a looming threat to two of our main characters, Sun and Claire, and as a hurdle to Juliet. Once the threat to our characters went away, and once Juliet was allowed to deliver a healthy baby on the island (albiet in the 1970s) the thread no longer served any of the characters. I'm okay if they don't explain it, because it's just a puzzle piece at this point.
 
Basically, I'm not going to listen to the producers anymore until after I've seen the finale. And even then, I'm only interested in their intent to a certain degree. I find their writing process interesting, but it won't be the final word on the series for me.

:lol:
Wasn't there a recent thread about how the intent of the creator (usually authors) can be completely ignored in colleges...even when the author stands up and says "That's not what I meant"?

I remember a joke about five rabbis studying the Torah and one always disagreed with the other four. Finally the one rabbi said, "If I'm right, let the walls shake." And the walls shook. The other four dismissed it as an earthquake.

After another disagreement, the one rabbi said, "If I'm right, let the daytime sky grow dark." And the daytime sky grew dark. The other four dismissed it as an eclipse.

After yet another disagreement, the one rabbi said, "If I'm right, let God come down and tell you." And God came down and said, "He's right."

The other four rabbis looked at the one rabbi and said, "So now it's four to two."
 
BRAVO Delta1, I think your on the right track there. Hopefully this will hold true, well, 'till next week & we'll have to come up w/ a new theory all-together ;-)

- W -
* I certainly hope we won't need a new one I like that one *


Yeah, but why should we be needing to "come up with a new theory" at all. Everything should be gelling into some theory by now. There's only 3+ hours left.

Instead, we get MIB appearing sympathetic after Damon/Lindleloff state he "evil, unquestionably" and Jacob appearing, well, dim-witted. Nobody has a damn answer?

I don't want everything all nicely wound up, it's fine to have a few things unanswered, but c'mon! What about the "have kids on the island and die" or "Dharma foundation" or Walt's and Aaron's "specialness."

Regarding the death of mothers, Aaron was born on the island, Clair lived (her craziness is besides the point). Sun's baby appears to have been conceived on the island--Sun didn't die from the baby nor is the baby dead.

It just seems that, after building up so much and dropping little hints the this or that is either important or revealing something about a particular character, some nice intertextuality, they just dropped it all. Because the only way they can answer half of the stuff is to have 2 hours of pure exposition. While not exciting, I'll take it for the answers over "how many of our cast can we kill before the end of the show?"

You do know I was joking, right ?

It'd be kinda hard for them to pull another plot-twist "Gotcha" so late in the game, however I would not put it past them to do so just to mess with us....

- W -
* They've done it before after all *
 
BRAVO Delta1, I think your on the right track there. Hopefully this will hold true, well, 'till next week & we'll have to come up w/ a new theory all-together ;-)

- W -
* I certainly hope we won't need a new one I like that one *


Yeah, but why should we be needing to "come up with a new theory" at all. Everything should be gelling into some theory by now. There's only 3+ hours left.

Instead, we get MIB appearing sympathetic after Damon/Lindleloff state he "evil, unquestionably" and Jacob appearing, well, dim-witted. Nobody has a damn answer?

I don't want everything all nicely wound up, it's fine to have a few things unanswered, but c'mon! What about the "have kids on the island and die" or "Dharma foundation" or Walt's and Aaron's "specialness."

Regarding the death of mothers, Aaron was born on the island, Clair lived (her craziness is besides the point). Sun's baby appears to have been conceived on the island--Sun didn't die from the baby nor is the baby dead.

It just seems that, after building up so much and dropping little hints the this or that is either important or revealing something about a particular character, some nice intertextuality, they just dropped it all. Because the only way they can answer half of the stuff is to have 2 hours of pure exposition. While not exciting, I'll take it for the answers over "how many of our cast can we kill before the end of the show?"

You do know I was joking, right ?

It'd be kinda hard for them to pull another plot-twist "Gotcha" so late in the game, however I would not put it past them to do so just to mess with us....

- W -
* They've done it before after all *


D'oh!!!

I tend to be a literalist.
 
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