Lost 6x15: "Across the Sea"

[Yoda]

Perhaps Jacob picked her because he found out somehow she was his mother's descendant?

I hope we get more on Ilana before the end. A lot about her is still a mystery.

Meh, she's dead. I don't care about her anymore.

I didn't give a shit about her when she was alive. What a boring lump of a character.

I gave this episode an excellent. I liked that they ignored the regulars for the whole thing. I liked that it pretty much solidified my "I'm with the smoke monster" stance. Jacob has always come off as kind of a smug douche... and here we see how much he really does suck. That lady isn't my mother? She killed my mother? Yeah well... uhh, she says she has good reasons, so I'll stick with her. The man with no name on the other hand I can dig. It sucks that he's not being all that nice to our favorite castaways. But the shit that's gone down in his life, plus a couple thousand years in what is apparently 'living hell' form as a smoke monster and well... the guy's patience has run out, ya know?

Oh, and Mr Light, why do you keep calling him Cerebus? I don't get it... are you trying to call him the three-headed dog thing, and if so, isn't that Cerberus? Did I miss something?

 

[RoJoHen]

That name has been floating around for a while, but as far as I'm concerned it's no more his real name than MiB.

 

[Peter the Younger]

If this was taking place in 23AD (which I also had heard before) it really does not make any sense in tying in with other things we have seen in the past.

First, all of the Egyptian stuff (temples, statues, hieroglyphics, pictures) would have had to come way before 23AD, yet none of it was present on the Island in this episode (the statue would have been visible from the donkey wheel well) since it was visible from there in season 5.

So how did all of the Egyptian stuff end up on the Island? Did the Island jump through time to a 1000+ years before this episode took place to have the Egyptians end up on the island and build all that stuff?

Who re-dug the well and finish off building the donkey wheel contraption? Who built the original stone wall blocking off the energy? The wall the MIB started to take apart before his mom killed him?

And this is another possible mistake (unless the island has undergone major geographical modifications sometime from this episode to the present) but the Donkey Wheel was super super deep into the island's core. Remember the super deep well that led down to it? Remember the long elevator ride in the Orchid station to get down that deep? The well we saw in this episode wasn't very deep at all. 20-30 feet, that's it.

So how did it end up getting so deep later on? Also, when we last saw this well and the Orchid station, etc... there was a temple near by and it was on top of a hill!

No hill in this episode. No ancient temple near by.

So, going by what we've seen, at some point between when this episode took place, a bunch of Egyptians had to come to the island, build tons of temples, statues, etc... (which would take 100+'s of years given the number of them that we've seen (or that literally thousands of Egyptian slaves were brought to the island to build all this stuff really quickly)) and then all die off before Richard shipwrecked on the island. Plus, all the Island geography would have to change with hills rising up, burying stuff way deeper into the ground then what we've seen.

All that could be (some what) possible if this episode had taken place way, way earlier then it seemed to. I mean, way back, pre (or concurrent) to the hight of the Egyptian empire. So, something like 3000BC? but then, I believe that was way before Latin was a language and it would make no sense for the mom to be speaking it this episode.

So, I guess the only way to resolve these questions is to assume that the island at some point in time, went back in time.

Yeah, I hadn't heard the 23AD figure, but if that is the case it screws everything up. Not sure why they couldn't have used Greek, it would have worked just as nicely and allowed for a later Egyptian visitation.

 

[Mallet]

why do you keep calling him Cerebus? I don't get it... are you trying to call him the three-headed dog thing, and if so, isn't that Cerberus? Did I miss something?

Way back when, in season two, when the blast door inside the swan station came down and Locke saw the "invisible" writing on it there was a bunch of weird stuff and "clues" on the map that it displayed.

"Cerebus" was written on there. People got the idea (still might be true) that this was the name that the Dharma people gave the Smoke Monster since Danielle had recently called the Smoke Monster a "security system". "Cerebus" being a possible misspelling of the "Cerberus" the three headed dog that guarded the entrance to the afterlife.

 

[Spot's Meow]

How disappointing to find out that Jacob is such a pussy momma's boy.


I really wanted to like this episode but everything in it was just so vague. Like, even for Lost it was too vague. I hated the crazy mom, Jacob was annoying, the only one I liked in this episode was the brother. We learned a couple of things but really this episode just felt like a vague ball of nothingness.

 

[sidious618]

Damon confirmed that the smoke monster was known as Cerebrus to the DHARMA Initiative.

 

[DeafPoet]

I'm a little surprised by the reaction in this thread and elsewhere online that some people think that Smokey is something separate from Titus Welliver's character and just appropriated his form.

I think it's pretty clear that whatever the light is stripped him of his body and turned him into the smoke monster. So he is in fact still Jacob's brother. He's just, you know, smokier.

 

[Brent]

A lot of things were answered in this episode, I liked it. Now we know how Smokey was created, and now we know who Adam and Eve were, and now we know how Jacob and the MIB came to be, and that they are brothers, and we know who put the Donkey Wheel there now.

 

[Brent]

I'm a little surprised by the reaction in this thread and elsewhere online that some people think that Smokey is something separate from Titus Welliver's character and just appropriated his form.

I think it's pretty clear that whatever the light is stripped him of his body and turned him into the smoke monster. So he is in fact still Jacob's brother. He's just, you know, smokier.

Yes, this is what I gathered too. It killed his "body" but transformed his soul or essence or being, whatever you want to call it, into a smoke form. Basically, releasing his spirit, in another form. He just simply changed form, the light or power of the island transformed him.

 

[startrekwatcher]

Now we know how Smokey was created

Well sorta--they deliberately didn't show what actually took place down there. I still want more on this, just as I want more on why Jacob took over Horace's cabin, how Dharma learned of the island's existence, who was Hanso, about the Black Rock journal, who built the structures on the island like the statue, the Light House, the rock face.

 

[Checkmate]

UGGGGGGGGH!

So it literally comes down to "a wizard did it."

Jesus. This show has gone from fascinating to absolute rubbish.

 

[Mallet]

and we know who put the Donkey Wheel there now.

No we don't.

The MIB never got a chance to build his Donkey Wheel contraption. His mom knocked him out and caved in the well and killed all of the remaining villagers before the donkey wheel could be built.

Someone else had to come along after and re-dig the well and build the contraption.

Maybe the MIB helped them do this, but we don't know for sure that he did and we don't know who it was that did the actual work.

What is also weird is that later on we see that the MIB hated jacob for bringing people to the Island, yet from this episode it appears that it should be jacob (like his mom) who would want to keep people away from the island to protect it since they are all "evil". And it would be the MIB who would want people to come to the island to help him (and re-dig the well, etc...).

I wonder what happened over the years that would make Jacob want to bring people to the Island and what would make the MIB want to keep them away. Especially since it appears that the MIB needed people to get his "loophole" while all the people coming to the Island ever did was to get Jacob killed. If Jacob never brought anyone to the Island then he might have lived forever. And kept the MIB prisoner forever.

That's a big question/flaw in what we have seen so far that really should be answered. Otherwise the two big powers that have been pulling all of the Losties strings for so long have plans/goals/ideas that make no sense.

 

[Brent]

Now we know how Smokey was created

Well sorta--they deliberately didn't show what actually took place down there. I still want more on this, just as I want more on why Jacob took over Horace's cabin, how Dharma learned of the island's existence, who was Hanso, about the Black Rock journal, who built the structures on the island like the statue, the Light House, the rock face.

It doesn't need explaining further, it is pretty obvious. The heart of the island transformed him, you could say it brought out his true nature in a more direct physical form. She did say that the heart of the island, the light, is life and death and has the power to create. So there you go. Nothing else has to be explained cause it was all explained and shown very well.

On to your other points, I don't think Jacob ever took on Horace's cabin, I think this was just what Ben thought, but he was obviously wrong.

Your other questions of course are still left open, perhaps they will touch on them. I didn't expect every answer to be answered tonight, but they did answer a lot of questions, no one can deny that. I also think we may have to live with the fact that not everything is going to be answered by the finale. I am ok with that, I think they intend to leave a lot of things to our imaginations.

 

[Brent]

UGGGGGGGGH!

So it literally comes down to "a wizard did it."

Jesus. This show has gone from fascinating to absolute rubbish.

Turn it off, don't even bother with the finale then. Nowhere did I see a wizard.

 

[Checkmate]

Turn it off, don't even bother with the finale then. Nowhere did I see a wizard.

Jacob's mother literally cast a spell to turn him into whatever he is. Complete with chanting.

 

[Mallet]

UGGGGGGGGH!

So it literally comes down to "a wizard did it."

Jesus. This show has gone from fascinating to absolute rubbish.

Unless they can really pull things out of the fire in the last 3 hours I would have to agree.

The mom says a "magic spell" over a glass of wine and suddenly jacob is the new Island protector? A magic spell? Really?

 

[Obiwanshinobi]

Wasn't cerebrus the mental mainframe professor x uses?

Anyways decent episode. I just wish they approached the revelations a bit differently. So the very dagger MiB used to kill his fake mom, could kill Jacob too when Ben used it on him? What is the whole thing about stabbing them before they get the chance to speak to you, was that the genesis of that wisetale because of the fact he stabbed his fake mom in the back before she ot the chance to say anything? And how come it didn't work on MiB when Sayid stabbbed him, we last see it used on Dogen and Lennon right?

Also that scene where Jacob finds his brothers body in the river, did anybody else have flashbacks to when Boone finds Shannons body lying in the water after she was taken by smokey even though he was hallucinating?

All in all with 3 1/2 hours left of Lost I really hope they tie up some loose ends from even tonights episode. I wouldn't be surprised if next week we see the fallout from last week, but predominantly stay in the flash sideways to wrap that up and tie that to the island.

 

[Brent]

Turn it off, don't even bother with the finale then. Nowhere did I see a wizard.

Jacob's mother literally cast a spell to turn him into whatever he is. Complete with chanting.

Another explanation might be that the liquid he drank is perhaps from the heart of the island. Maybe the light, or heart of the island (since it has the power to create and is life and death) adds properties to water somewhere on the island, and this plus some other ingredients on the island has the power to make you not age. (Keep in mind this water was supposed to bring Sayid back to life too, so I'm thinking the water came from that pool area) Note that they can obviously still die, it does not grant you the power of invulnerability, we've seen Jacob and his mother die from nothing but an easy stabbing, so they are not immortal, they just don't age. The chanting could merely be a tradition and not actually have any power.

 

[RoJoHen]

Wasn't cerebrus the mental mainframe professor x uses?

That would be Cerebro.

 

[DeafPoet]

UGGGGGGGGH!

So it literally comes down to "a wizard did it."

Jesus. This show has gone from fascinating to absolute rubbish.

Well, I'll grant that it could indeed go to that place, but to say definitively that "a wizard did it" at this point feels a little premature.

I should point out though that I'm okay with a wizard having done it so long as we know why, if you take my meaning. That was what bugged me about BSG, not the nature of the ending but the fact that there was no rhyme or reason to the weirdness.

I've fully expected all along that this was going to end with some aspects that are just not rationally explainable. The creators have said so themselves for awhile. I don't know why some people feel like Lost is cheating by doing weird shit that's not being explained. That's what the show is and always has been.