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Where no ONE has gone before...

Anji

Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
"These are the continuing voyages of the starship Enterprise...to go boldly where no ONE has gone before."

That is what Spock said at the end of the TWOK that was shown in our movie theater in Chicago, Illinois on premiere night. The fact that they had changed it to "one" meant that they were now including us girls, which made the entire audience, particularly us girls, go crazy.

But on the VHS and DVD version Spock says "go boldy where no MAN has gone before". Can anyone explain this??? And did anyone who saw this movie at the theater, did you hear "one" or "man"?
 
It was "man."

They changed it to "no one" for TNG and Shatner says it at the end of TUC as a way of passing the torch.
 
When Kirk changes it from "man" to "one" at the end of ST6, he's obviously not doing if for the female demographics. He has had no reason to become more receptive of the opposite gender during that adventure - quite to the contrary, two women betrayed him and the Federation there.

OTOH, Kirk could well have been broadening his horizons behind the human race (the thing called "man" in standard English). After all, he has e.g. learned not to hate all Klingons, and he may have been hurt by that "homo sapiens only club" remark, too... Hence the change from "man(kind)" to "everybody of every species".

Timo Saloniemi
 
"These are the continuing voyages of the starship Enterprise...to go boldly where no ONE has gone before."

That is what Spock said at the end of the TWOK that was shown in our movie theater in Chicago, Illinois on premiere night. The fact that they had changed it to "one" meant that they were now including us girls, which made the entire audience, particularly us girls, go crazy.

But on the VHS and DVD version Spock says "go boldy where no MAN has gone before". Can anyone explain this??? And did anyone who saw this movie at the theater, did you hear "one" or "man"?

Pretty sure you're remembering that wrong, 30 years later.
 
That is what Spock said at the end of the TWOK that was shown in our movie theater in Chicago, Illinois on premiere night. The fact that they had changed it to "one" meant that they were now including us girls, which made the entire audience, particularly us girls, go crazy.

You're mis-remembering. The only change to the film was that the reels used in the first two weeks or so of US release had no Roman numeral "II" in the title. These reels then went off to the premieres all over the world.

Check out the soundtrack LP, which came out a few days before the movie itself. Nimoy says "man" in that, too. The changes to his version of Kirk's TOS narration were: adding the word "continuing" between "the" and "voyages", replacing the words "its five-year" with "her on-going", and adding the word "forms" after "life".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Where_no_man_has_gone_before
 
I can't believe people even complain about this.

"Man" is meant as "Human" in the original series.

"Where no one has gone before" is silly, because it implies somewhere that no living creature has ever seen, and this would include the Q, which I find unlikely.

At least in the TNG Episode "Where no one has gone before" they did actually go to a place where probably only the Q and the Traveler had the capability of reaching.
 
I grew up with TNG and so never had the sentimental attachment to "man" a lot of others have - what I feel is the real issue here. Though I did suffer some confusion...I loved TOS too...no one around here uses "one" in everyday conversation...in the end, I felt grammatical correctness should win out over literary colorfulness.

After all, sentimentalism aside, "man" may have meant human but it comes from the androcentric past that should have had a different word for both in the first place. People would sit around discussing what's appropriate behavior for "men" meaning men, women it being a given were lesser and therefore weren't subject to the same expectations.

Oh, and the Enterprise's mission isn't to go only "where no man has gone before" because that wouldn't include Spock, Data, or any non-humans. In this case "one" I take to mean "anyone from the Federation" has gone before.
 
"Man" is meant as "Human" in the original series.

Which is exactly why "no one" works better because not everyone on board the Enterprise is a Human. If they left man in I'd think the alien crew on board will start feeling left out.
 
no one around here uses "one" in everyday conversation....

"No one" meaning nobody, not "one" singular.

You've used the term "no one" in your own sentence. That's the term being discussed, not just "one".

And the nobody, in this context, means no members of the United Federation of Planets, not any alien flora, fauna or omniscient being.

I will never understand what the big deal is with "no one" instead of "no man". :rolleyes:

Because you're male. Many women feel the term is excluding them. Changing it to "no one" is an attempt to be be more inclusive.
 
I personally could care less which one is used. Where no one does have a better ring to it.
 
When Kirk changes it from "man" to "one" at the end of ST6, he's obviously not doing if for the female demographics. He has had no reason to become more receptive of the opposite gender during that adventure - quite to the contrary, two women betrayed him and the Federation there.

OTOH, Kirk could well have been broadening his horizons behind the human race (the thing called "man" in standard English). After all, he has e.g. learned not to hate all Klingons, and he may have been hurt by that "homo sapiens only club" remark, too... Hence the change from "man(kind)" to "everybody of every species".

Timo Saloniemi

Even so, I like it when Spock does it. Leonard Nimoy just has the voice to do that... I'm not sure if Zachery Quinto can come up with a match :)
 
But, really, the original opening narration was always about humankind, and our going where nobody from Earth had gone before. Space was OUR final frontier (I wonder if anyone even pays attention to that means - or is it just accepted as the first four words of the narration?). It wasn't about Edoans, Vulcans, or Caitians, because those are people we met while boldly going where no one had visited. Back in the day when Spock was the ONLY non-human on the Enterprise, "where no man" was quite appropriate. Once all sorts of aliens got on the crew, mostly in the TNG era, then including those folks made sense as well.

Okay, to be 100% accurate, the phrase meant "beyond the limits of our galaxy" past the energy barrier. At least, when it was first used in the original version of the 22nd pilot.
 
Man (word)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article is about the word "man". For adult males, see man. Look up Man or man in Wiktionary, the free dictionary.

For other uses see Man (disambiguation)

The term man (from Proto-Germanic *mannaz or *manwaz "man, person") and words derived from it can designate any or even all of the human race regardless of their sex or age. This is indeed the oldest usage of "man". The word developed into Old English man, mann "human being, person," (cf. also German Mann, Old Norse maðr, Gothic manna "man"). The native English term for an adult male was wer. The native English form of the "earthling" designation cognate to Latin homo was guma.

*Mannaz or *Manwaz is also the Proto-Germanic reconstructed name of the m-rune

Etymology

It is derived from a Proto-Indo-European root *man- (cf. Sanskrit/Avestan manu-, Czech muž "man, male").[1] In Hindu mythology, Manu is a title accorded the progenitor of humankind. Sometimes, the word is connected with the root *men- "to think" (cognate to mind). Restricted use in the sense "adult male" only began to occur in late Old English, around 1000 AD, and the word formerly expressing male sex, wer had died out by 1300 (but survives in a few words such as werewolf and weregild). The original sense of the word is preserved in mankind, from Old English mancynn.

In Old English the words wer and wīf (also wǣpmann and wīfmann) were used to refer to "a man" and "a woman" respectively, while mann was gender neutral (as is the case with modern German man; the modern German gender-neutral noun is Mensch). In Middle English man displaced wer as the term for "male human," whilst wyfman (which eventually evolved into woman) was retained for "female human". Man does continue to carry its original sense of "human" however, resulting in an asymmetry sometimes criticized as sexist.[2] It is derived from a Proto-Indo-European base *man-, with a variant *mon- (cf. Sanskrit/Avestan manu-). The Slavic forms (Russian muzh "man, male" etc.) are derived from a suffixed stem *mon-gyo-. *Manus in Indo-European mythology was the first man, see Mannus, Manu (Hinduism)

Some etymologies treat the root as an independent one, as does the American Heritage Dictionary. Of the etymologies that do make connections with other Indo-European roots, man "the thinker" is the most traditional — that is, the word is connected with the root *men- "to think" (cognate to mind). This etymology presumes that man is the one who thinks, which fits the definition of man given by René Descartes as a "rational animal", indebted to Aristotle's ζῷον λόγoν ἔχον, which is also the basis for Homo sapiens (see Human self-reflection). This etymology is however not generally accepted. In Finnish, which is not a Germanic language, there is a possible analogy of this etymology. In Finnish, "human" is "ihminen", which means somebody that is wondering.

A second etymology postulates the reduction of the ancestor of "human" to the ancestor of "man". Human is from *dhghem-, "earth". *(dh)ghom-on- is some sort of “earthling” . The word would reduce to just its final syllable, *m-on-. You may find this point of view in Eric Partridge, Origins, under man. Such a derivation might be credible if we had only the Germanic form (also note that Tuisto, father of Mannus, is the god who sprang from the earth), but the attested Indo-Iranian manu virtually excludes the possibility.

_____

There you go. 'Man' and 'Mankind' is not sexist or exclusionary. The use of the word 'man' to mean 'male' is a rather modern invention, and true 'political correctness' would be recognizing it, not diluting the meaning my replacing 'man' with 'one'. As was pointed out earlier in the thread, they were going places no member of mankind had ever been, not no 'one' (which could include any alien race).

If you must change it, the best rendition would be 'where no human has gone before', but then you'll get people complaining that it should be 'where no human or huwoman has gone before'...
 
Anticitizen, you miss the point. It doesn't matter what Wikipedia's definition says, 'Man' and 'Mankind' are considered, by many feminists and others, as examples of how males once constructed their world. For you to resolutely demand that the words are not sexist or exclusionary would rub many people up the wrong way. Respecting the suggestions by many women that less sexist and exclusionary language be considered is something that began to appear in the 70s and 80s.
 
"Man" doesn't exclude females. such thinking is PC modernist bullshit.

Man is short for human!
 
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