Leno not doing any better Conan did...

[Sci]

Hum. No, Conan quit.

No, he made it clear that he would not allow The Tonight Show to be moved to the 12:00 AM timeslot. When he said this, NBC decided to terminate their contract with him, which is why they paid him $30 million -- they were technically in violation of contract.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Anybody who is trying to insinuate that bringing Leno back wasn't a ratings boost for the Tonight Show is lying.

It's mostly people who seethe with so much blind hatred for Jay Leno that it distorts their perception of reality.

I wouldn't watch Leno if you paid me, but I see no reason to twist my brain in knots trying to deny the facts, which are that Leno has easily beat Letterman every night since he came back.

Does anyone seriously think Letterman is going to start beating Leno regularly, the way Letterman was beating Conan regularly? If you really believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

You're the only one it seems in this thread making any sense.

The reason why these folks hate LENO is because it has always been trendy to hate him, and cheer for Letterman because he is so 'trendy'.

But facts are simple..Leno destroyed Letterman for all those years, and he is beating him now on a crummy network that doesn't have lead ins like CSI.

Leno is funny...to me. Letterman, from the time he came on after carson, has always been a punk who appeals to the 'youngins', and in reality, is a jackass. I have been to two of his tapings and he was a jerk.

I have been to four tapings of the tonight show over the years and Jay Leno is a nice person..very nice.

having said that? I wanted Obrien to stay..i liked his show. But its over and jay is back..and he's beating letterman....

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

 

[Sci]

Anybody who is trying to insinuate that bringing Leno back wasn't a ratings boost for the Tonight Show is lying.

It's mostly people who seethe with so much blind hatred for Jay Leno that it distorts their perception of reality.

I wouldn't watch Leno if you paid me, but I see no reason to twist my brain in knots trying to deny the facts, which are that Leno has easily beat Letterman every night since he came back.

Does anyone seriously think Letterman is going to start beating Leno regularly, the way Letterman was beating Conan regularly? If you really believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

You're the only one it seems in this thread making any sense.

The reason why these folks hate LENO is because it has always been trendy to hate him, and cheer for Letterman because he is so 'trendy'.

But facts are simple..Leno destroyed Letterman for all those years, and he is beating him now on a crummy network that doesn't have lead ins like CSI.

Leno is funny...to me. Letterman, from the time he came on after carson, has always been a punk who appeals to the 'youngins', and in reality, is a jackass. I have been to two of his tapings and he was a jerk.

I have been to four tapings of the tonight show over the years and Jay Leno is a nice person..very nice.

having said that? I wanted Obrien to stay..i liked his show. But its over and jay is back..and he's beating letterman....

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

Oh, bullshit. If Leno were a nice guy, he would never have agreed to hand over The Tonight Show and then gone back on his word. If Leno were a nice guy, he would have said, "Well, guys, if The Jay Leno Show isn't working out for you, then I'm off. No, I'm not going to take back my old timeslot -- The Tonight Show already has a host, and it's Conan O'Brien. I'll go off and work the comedy circuit and enjoy my cars."

 

[Venardhi]

How are the ratings for the local news programs in comparison to a 6 months ago? That would seem to tell the tale better than The Tonight Show's ratings since they haven't changed other than getting new lead-ins.

 

[RobertScorpio]

It's mostly people who seethe with so much blind hatred for Jay Leno that it distorts their perception of reality.

I wouldn't watch Leno if you paid me, but I see no reason to twist my brain in knots trying to deny the facts, which are that Leno has easily beat Letterman every night since he came back.

Does anyone seriously think Letterman is going to start beating Leno regularly, the way Letterman was beating Conan regularly? If you really believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

You're the only one it seems in this thread making any sense.

The reason why these folks hate LENO is because it has always been trendy to hate him, and cheer for Letterman because he is so 'trendy'.

But facts are simple..Leno destroyed Letterman for all those years, and he is beating him now on a crummy network that doesn't have lead ins like CSI.

Leno is funny...to me. Letterman, from the time he came on after carson, has always been a punk who appeals to the 'youngins', and in reality, is a jackass. I have been to two of his tapings and he was a jerk.

I have been to four tapings of the tonight show over the years and Jay Leno is a nice person..very nice.

having said that? I wanted Obrien to stay..i liked his show. But its over and jay is back..and he's beating letterman....

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

Oh, bullshit. If Leno were a nice guy, he would never have agreed to hand over The Tonight Show and then gone back on his word. If Leno were a nice guy, he would have said, "Well, guys, if The Jay Leno Show isn't working out for you, then I'm off. No, I'm not going to take back my old timeslot -- The Tonight Show already has a host, and it's Conan O'Brien. I'll go off and work the comedy circuit and enjoy my cars."

I think you need to calm down, and find Jesus. Because you are far to upset about this matter. But here...I will explain things to you..again.

The fact that Leno is number one, and has been number one, on a crappy network is amazing. Sure, his 10pm show was a bust, but NBC's 10-11 lineup has been a bust for years...and yet..there he is, back at 1130, beating letterman.

Letterman is on the "most watched network" and has been for many many years. And yet people go out of their way to turn the channel when he comes on..why? Because unlike the 'trendy' 'herd following' 'anti-establishment' people that letterman attracts, most people just don't care for him.

And the one problem Conan had, as does Letterman, is they let their political views creep in their shows, and it just turns people off.

Its hard for normal people like us to understand the world of entertainment. But the world of entertainment is all about, and I know this is hard for some to understand, but its all about numbers. And those numbers have $$$ attached to them. Leno brings in more $$$ than Letterman..and he brings in more $$$ than Conan.

Go ahead and bash Leno for coming back, which I agree was unfair to conan, but conan got 40 million $$$ and so I don't really feel all that sorry for him at all. The reason he isn't at FOX, and is on TBS instead? Rumors are all over the place that he just didn't want to work for Fox due to...roll the drums...Fox's sister channel FOXNEWS. Hollywood leftie avoiding fox? not hard to imagine especially with 40$$ million in the bank.

Leno + 1130pm = $$$
Letterman + 1130pm = Loser and whiner
Conan + TBS = 3 years tops and he's cancelled.


Rob

 

[Sci]

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

Oh, bullshit. If Leno were a nice guy, he would never have agreed to hand over The Tonight Show and then gone back on his word. If Leno were a nice guy, he would have said, "Well, guys, if The Jay Leno Show isn't working out for you, then I'm off. No, I'm not going to take back my old timeslot -- The Tonight Show already has a host, and it's Conan O'Brien. I'll go off and work the comedy circuit and enjoy my cars."

I think you need to calm down, and find Jesus. Because you are far to upset about this matter. But here...I will explain things to you..again.

The fact that Leno is number one, and has been number one, on a crappy network is amazing. Sure, his 10pm show was a bust, but NBC's 10-11 lineup has been a bust for years...and yet..there he is, back at 1130, beating letterman.

Letterman is on the "most watched network" and has been for many many years. And yet people go out of their way to turn the channel when he comes on..why? Because unlike the 'trendy' 'herd following' 'anti-establishment' people that letterman attracts, most people just don't care for him.

And the one problem Conan had, as does Letterman, is they let their political views creep in their shows, and it just turns people off.

Its hard for normal people like us to understand the world of entertainment. But the world of entertainment is all about, and I know this is hard for some to understand, but its all about numbers. And those numbers have $$$ attached to them. Leno brings in more $$$ than Letterman..and he brings in more $$$ than Conan.

And none of that has anything whatsoever to do with the fact that Jay Leno simply is not a nice guy who's finishing first. He's an asshole who's finishing first.

Go ahead and bash Leno for coming back, which I agree was unfair to conan, but conan got 40 million $$$ and so I don't really feel all that sorry for him at all. The reason he isn't at FOX, and is on TBS instead? Rumors are all over the place that he just didn't want to work for Fox due to...roll the drums...Fox's sister channel FOXNEWS. Hollywood leftie avoiding fox? not hard to imagine especially with 40$$ million in the bank.

Actually, the reason the deal with Fox fell through has been all over the news. 40% of Fox's station affiliates were unwilling to give up their contracts to air syndicated reruns in favor of airing a new Conan late-night series before two years were up; as a result, Fox could only offer Conan about 60% of the national market. TBS, on the other hand, offered him nearly the entire country -- no affiliates to sweet talk -- and offered him ownership and creative control of his show. And to top it off, George Lopez himself asked Conan to come to TBS and take over the 11:00 PM timeslot.

 

[scottydog]

Leno is greedy and in no possible way is he funny. The only people I (personally) know that like Leno are old and they have no scene of humor or imagination. I can't wait for Conan to be back on the air in Sept.

I'm so old that I can remember 20 years ago when Johnny Carson was old and no longer funny, and his heir-apparent, a young kid named Jay Leno, was considered hip and imaginative.

Personally, I think Conan is funnier than Leno, Letterman, and Fallon. But they're all over 45. Who are the young guns out there ready to fill the vacuum?

 

[Mr Light]

Little Jimmy Fallon is over 45?! That can't be right.

 

[Sheep]

Little Jimmy Fallon is over 45?! That can't be right.

Wiki indicates Fallon's 35. That sounds about right to me...definitely not 45 though.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

And none of that has anything whatsoever to do with the fact that Jay Leno simply is not a nice guy who's finishing first. He's an asshole who's finishing first.

I would agree with that. The right thing for Jay to do would have been to quit the 10 PM show, take a big payout from NBC, and go to cable somewhere. (Though, you can't put 100% of the blame on Jay here. It's not like he demanded that NBC fire Conan and give him his old timeslot back.)

What I have an issue with is the internet blogosphere jumping all over every bit of ratings news to triumphantly declare that Leno going back to 11:35 is some sort of disaster for NBC. He's still beating the competition, he's still getting more total viewers than Conan, and he's still earning more money for the network. As far as I know, these facts aren't in dispute.

Anyone who thinks that there's going to be this sudden turnaround and Leno's fans are going to defect en masse to Letterman or Kimmel or Conan's TBS show are just deluded, and blinded by their sheer hatred of Leno.

 

[scottydog]

Little Jimmy Fallon is over 45?! That can't be right.

Wiki indicates Fallon's 35. That sounds about right to me...definitely not 45 though.

Well I meant Leno, Letterman, and Conan are all over 45. I like Fallon but he's not in the mix, IMHO.

 

[Orintho]

It's mostly people who seethe with so much blind hatred for Jay Leno that it distorts their perception of reality.

I wouldn't watch Leno if you paid me, but I see no reason to twist my brain in knots trying to deny the facts, which are that Leno has easily beat Letterman every night since he came back.

Does anyone seriously think Letterman is going to start beating Leno regularly, the way Letterman was beating Conan regularly? If you really believe that, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

You're the only one it seems in this thread making any sense.

The reason why these folks hate LENO is because it has always been trendy to hate him, and cheer for Letterman because he is so 'trendy'.

But facts are simple..Leno destroyed Letterman for all those years, and he is beating him now on a crummy network that doesn't have lead ins like CSI.

Leno is funny...to me. Letterman, from the time he came on after carson, has always been a punk who appeals to the 'youngins', and in reality, is a jackass. I have been to two of his tapings and he was a jerk.

I have been to four tapings of the tonight show over the years and Jay Leno is a nice person..very nice.

having said that? I wanted Obrien to stay..i liked his show. But its over and jay is back..and he's beating letterman....

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

Oh, bullshit. If Leno were a nice guy, he would never have agreed to hand over The Tonight Show and then gone back on his word. If Leno were a nice guy, he would have said, "Well, guys, if The Jay Leno Show isn't working out for you, then I'm off. No, I'm not going to take back my old timeslot -- The Tonight Show already has a host, and it's Conan O'Brien. I'll go off and work the comedy circuit and enjoy my cars."

The bad guy here is not Leno but NBC and that incompetent Zucker. One does not casually blow up a MAJOR piece of late night viewing structure the way they did. It was madness.

 

[Cyke101]

And the one problem Conan had, as does Letterman, is they let their political views creep in their shows, and it just turns people off.

Say what you will about Leno, Conan, or Letterman, but this I really have to call you out on. Conan's perhaps the >least< political of the three, or perhaps of any talk show host in the past 10 years. Letterman wears his politics on the show, sure, no doubt about it, but Leno gets controversial guests and newsmakers and asks them what you pretty much expect -- Hugh Grant, Rush Limbaugh, Sarah Palin, Al Gore, Keith Olbermann, et all. Let's also remember that Arnold Schwarzenegger announced his candidacy for the governorship on his show. That's just about as political as anyone can get (not that there's anything wrong with that, either). So yes, I get the feeling that while Leno tried to balance things out, he was still political, and that's his right as a TV host. That's certainly not the problem, nor has it ever been for Leno. He's cashed in on politics, and that's fine and dandy, that's the nature of television.

Conversely, contrast that with Conan who, whenever he had a newsmaker on the show, he would purposely avoid asking tabloid questions, something he would declare at the start of every interview, and he would be diplomatic in his approach, much moreso than Letterman ever would. If he made fun of a politician, then surprise -- it was during the monologue and really the targets were no different than Letterman or Leno or Fallon or Ferguson would go after. In fact, Conan would usually get guests from both major parties, as there were no ambushes or real points of contention -- he just wanted to talk. He never really banked on the controversial aspects of his guests, which is also his right as a TV host. That's how he earned the nice guy moniker, and that's how Conan, for years, was able to get all sorts of figures and politicians across the spectrum to come on his show.

So to cite Conan's politics as a factor in all this is stretching it. In fact, this is perhaps the first time I've ever seen anyone, pro-Conan or pro-Jay, ever cite Conan's politics, ever in this whole debacle. Remember, this is the guy who made his parting speech about the dangers of cynicism, no matter who one is up against, the guy in the same speech who made it clear that his grudge was against NBC and not Jay. Politics as a downfall surely indeed sounds like cynicism to me.

 

[Ryan]

Ummm... The point is that Conan was fired because he was getting poor ratings.

Conan was forced out because Leno was getting shit ratings.

 

[Sci]

You're the only one it seems in this thread making any sense.

The reason why these folks hate LENO is because it has always been trendy to hate him, and cheer for Letterman because he is so 'trendy'.

But facts are simple..Leno destroyed Letterman for all those years, and he is beating him now on a crummy network that doesn't have lead ins like CSI.

Leno is funny...to me. Letterman, from the time he came on after carson, has always been a punk who appeals to the 'youngins', and in reality, is a jackass. I have been to two of his tapings and he was a jerk.

I have been to four tapings of the tonight show over the years and Jay Leno is a nice person..very nice.

having said that? I wanted Obrien to stay..i liked his show. But its over and jay is back..and he's beating letterman....

All is good in the universe. It seems as if nice guys DO finish first..

Rob

Oh, bullshit. If Leno were a nice guy, he would never have agreed to hand over The Tonight Show and then gone back on his word. If Leno were a nice guy, he would have said, "Well, guys, if The Jay Leno Show isn't working out for you, then I'm off. No, I'm not going to take back my old timeslot -- The Tonight Show already has a host, and it's Conan O'Brien. I'll go off and work the comedy circuit and enjoy my cars."

The bad guy here is not Leno but NBC and that incompetent Zucker.

I didn't claim that Leno was the guy responsible for everything. But that doesn't change the fact that if Leno were a nice guy, he would have left NBC and turned down The Tonight Show again. That he took The Tonight Show back and cooperated with NBC's screwing Conan over means, very simply, that he's an asshole and not a nice guy.

 

[Cyke101]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984940_1985538,00.html

I just wanted to throw this in there, but I feel that Time could have gotten someone higher than George Lopez for the article.

 

[Level 2 Diagnostic]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984940_1985538,00.html

I just wanted to throw this in there, but I feel that Time could have gotten someone higher than George Lopez for the article.

You see, it's vitally important for TBS to get George Lopez to publicly kiss Conan's ass at every available opportunity, to make it clear that Conan bumping Lopez back an hour is in no shape or form similar to NBC wanting to bump Conan back an hour to make way for Leno.

 

[Peak]

I would like to say this: I loved "Late Night with Conan O'Brien".

The Tonight Show was totally wrong for him, though. He was far to neutered, and it didn't fit. There was a reason he was much funnier when he knew that he would leave the show.

I hope that his new show will allow him to use the more sharper version of his humour again.

 

[Sci]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984940_1985538,00.html

I just wanted to throw this in there, but I feel that Time could have gotten someone higher than George Lopez for the article.

You see, it's vitally important for TBS to get George Lopez to publicly kiss Conan's ass at every available opportunity, to make it clear that Conan bumping Lopez back an hour is in no shape or form similar to NBC wanting to bump Conan back an hour to make way for Leno.

Is there any particular reason you won't acknowledge that Lopez wants Conan to come to TBS and bump his show back?

I mean, seriously, how does that hurt Lopez? No one was watching his show before, but they damn well will watch his show now.

 

[Cyke101]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1984685_1984940_1985538,00.html

I just wanted to throw this in there, but I feel that Time could have gotten someone higher than George Lopez for the article.

You see, it's vitally important for TBS to get George Lopez to publicly kiss Conan's ass at every available opportunity, to make it clear that Conan bumping Lopez back an hour is in no shape or form similar to NBC wanting to bump Conan back an hour to make way for Leno.

1. That's what I was afraid of. While I'm glad that Time ranked Conan along the likes of Sarah Palin and Steve Jobs, it really does read like an ad and makes no real mention as to why Conan was elevated to his present status.

2. Bumping the Tonight Show back an hour no longer makes it the Tonight Show, but the Tomorrow Show or the Really Early Today Show, which trumps 50 years of tradition and format (imagine if the 35 yr old SNL was taped on a Tuesday, shown on a Wednesday). Or they could have renamed the show Late Night -- which would be a demotion and not a promotion, putting Conan back to square one, as if the past five years never happened. There's power in branding, hence why when Leno was switched back, the network retained the name Tonight Show, rather than the Jay Leno Show or any variation thereof.

3. Lopez doesn't depend on the lead-in from local news broadcasts, something that Leno and Letterman both currently depend on for the majority of viewers. Likewise, local news outlets depend on strong prime time programming to get them viewers and revenue. Thats the advantage of being on basic cable -- variety and fluidity means less strategic planning and more programming freedom. Leno himself acknowledged that pre-news programming was an important factor in the network's decision, and this is perhaps one of the reasons why Conan decided not to side with the odds-favorite Fox.

Besides, when has TBS ever been seen as a news powerhouse? NBC and Fox have their own 24-hour cable news channels, and CBS has its own rep.