The Stargates in SG:U

[F. King Daniel]

^I'll take your word for it Maybe the name "Universe" made me assume a bigger-scale rather than just "further away".

Now I know why they haven't come across any aliens until now.

Thanks!

 

[Checkmate]

What makes you say that? Why do you think they're even stopping in the same galaxy with each jump? Why do you think there's planets in every star they pass as they travel?

We know absolutely nothing about their speed capabilities or how it compares to hyperdrives. Absolutely nothing.

 

[Brent]

It is slower, it is not Hyperdrive, we know that. We also know that the Destiny's gates predate the Milky Way gates, and we know that the Destiny is millions of years old, taking us back to the time when the Ancients lived in the Milky Way galaxy, either before or sometime around when they seeded the MW with gates. Destiny might have actually been sent out before the MW was seeded with gates, we don't know the exact timing, but we know the Destiny is a product of very early Ancient technology in our galaxy.

 

[Checkmate]

We don't know if it's slower. All we know is the Ancients moved on to Hyperdrives, but we don't know why. Perhaps the fuel requirements are lower, perhaps they just preferred wormhole-style travel, perhaps there were unknown side-effects, or maybe it really is faster. But the show hasn't established a single thing about any of it.

It very likely is slower, especially if the Lucien Alliance somehow managed to get out there in their own ship. (Though I have no idea how they're going to explain that.) But as it stands, there's no proof at all that it's actually slower, let alone significantly slower, than hyperdrive.

 

[Brent]

It is a given considering everything else, the thing is built to last, its robust, not necessarily built for speed. It makes sense that something had to come before Hyperdrives.

Nothing indicates they are hoping galaxies with each FTL jump. In fact, I counted how many galaxies they've passed through when I went back and watched the first episode, the ship has only been to 30 or so galaxies away from Earth. If you watch the first episode, count how many times each "blip" happens (the sound effect indicating a point at which the ship passed through a galaxy when they are looking at the computer) and you'll count about 30 of them. 30 or so galaxies in millions of years seems to indicate a very slow FTL drive.

 

[The Wormhole]

I get the feeling they don't exactly know where they are right now in the Universe, like it is hard to locate them. But yes, a good point.

Well, there is a log of Destiny's journey through the universe starting when they launched from Earth in the database. Rush or someone can study that, then use the stones to coordinate with people on Earth to pinpoint the general area of Destiny's location.

It very likely is slower, especially if the Lucien Alliance somehow managed to get out there in their own ship. (Though I have no idea how they're going to explain that.) But as it stands, there's no proof at all that it's actually slower, let alone significantly slower, than hyperdrive.

Spoiler: Speculation on this storyline

Does the Lucian Alliance actually get one of their ships out there? My understanding was that they somehow get one of their people on Destiny. That could be achieved either through the stones or possibly, dare I suggest, the Stargate itself.

 

[Brent]

Interestingly, we found out it was the Lucian Alliance that aided in finding the planet capable of dialing the 9th chevron.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Interestingly, we found out it was the Lucian Alliance that aided in finding the planet capable of dialing the 9th chevron.

Which would explain why they might feel screwed at having not gotten aboard Destiny. Could also explain why they attacked Icarus in the first place--maybe they didn't know why the Tau'ri wanted a planet with those specific energy properties, and when they found out, they felt like they'd been duped, got pissed, and unleashed on Icarus.

Hopefully they will put a face on all this from the side of the Lucian Alliance, though.

 

[Meredith]

Hyperdrive can get a ship to other galaxies in a matter of weeks. Destiny's FTL takes a couple of weeks just to get to another solar system.

Destiny is slow, powered by Stars, seems to be from the era before the ancients invented ZPMs and Hyperdrives. If you had Hyperdrives and ZPMs why would you NEED to send seeder ships with subpar-stargates? You wouldn't as you would explore the universe using Hyperdrives powered by ZPMs like some sort of Ancient James t. Kirk or Jean Luc Picard. The seeder ships make sense to explore/colonize a boatload of galaxies if your FTL drive is limited by fuel constraints and your stargate tech is primitive by the Atlantis Standards.

I would bet the seeder ships are also powered by star fueling as well. Think of Destiny as the "Road Builders" of the Ancients. It's first stop was Pegasus, the ancients followed up there, I am not sure if the Ancients got around to checking out the next Galaxy past Pegasus, there could really be Ancients living out there two or three galaxies past Pegasus on Destiny's flight path that we don't know about yet.

 

[Brent]

^ good points

 

[Checkmate]

Then why were the Ancients using (and building) stargates well after development of both ZPMs and hyperdrives? Like, say, inside Pegasus itself? And there's nothing subpar about the stargate on the Destiny or the seeder ships. The only limitation is power requirements. They're not limited in range in and of themselves; the Destiny's power reserves are.

And yes, the Destiny uses stars to refuel and doesn't have huge power reserves. But there still is no proof that the FTL drive it uses is significantly slower than a hyperdrive; it's just a completely different type of technology. Like going from diesel engines to electric engines. That doesn't make it faster, just more convenient/safer/cleaner/sophisticated/etc. Primitive != grossly inferior.

Case in point: What other Ancient technology has survived in such harsh and unforgiving situations for as long as the Destiny has, while remaining at nearly full functionality?

 

[David cgc]

Well, the next oldest thing we know of is the antarctic gate and DHD, but those were probably in-doors at the very least until 10,000 years ago.

 

[The Wormhole]

Think of Destiny as the "Road Builders" of the Ancients. It's first stop was Pegasus, the ancients followed up there,

Actually, Pegasus was the second galaxy Destiny went to after it left the Milky Way. In the pilot, when they're watching the log of Destiny's journey, we see the Milky Way leave the screen, then another galaxy, and another which I think it was Scott says "that's Pegasus."

I like to think the in-between galaxy was Ida, the Asgard's home galaxy.

 

[Meredith]

Then why were the Ancients using (and building) stargates well after development of both ZPMs and hyperdrives? Like, say, inside Pegasus itself? And there's nothing subpar about the stargate on the Destiny or the seeder ships. The only limitation is power requirements. They're not limited in range in and of themselves; the Destiny's power reserves are.

And yes, the Destiny uses stars to refuel and doesn't have huge power reserves. But there still is no proof that the FTL drive it uses is significantly slower than a hyperdrive; it's just a completely different type of technology. Like going from diesel engines to electric engines. That doesn't make it faster, just more convenient/safer/cleaner/sophisticated/etc. Primitive != grossly inferior.

Case in point: What other Ancient technology has survived in such harsh and unforgiving situations for as long as the Destiny has, while remaining at nearly full functionality?

I see Destiny as a somethink akin to a Steam Locomotive, they are still pretty powerfull compared to diesels, but they have to stop in every town and re-fuel, (think the star scoop). The "Destiny Gates" could be viewed as the phone system circa 1920. Very Basic and a pain in the next to do long distance calls. The tech seems more robust, but more crude, just like the ancient chair device.

Destiny could be extremly useful in understanding ancient tech. Atlantis was like giving a Advanced Calculus book to Humanity, Destiny would be akin to Begining Algebra. It help uncover HOW some of the more mysterious Ancient tech works.

 

[Brent]

BTW, before SGU premiered, there was a primer on the universe and technology of Destiny, it explained that the Destiny gates do have a more limited range than the MW gates, they cannot dial across the galaxy they are in like the MW gates, only within certain local groups, the Destiny has to be within range of the group to gain access. So yes they are more primitive than the MW gates, which means they predate them.

 

[Checkmate]

They must predate the one on the Destiny itself, by quite a large margin, then. Since, you know, it was able to connect to another gate that was further away than any other connection known to exist by monstrous magnitudes.

That also doesn't mean they're any more limited themselves. It means the fuel used to power them are limited, just like the Destiny herself. So of course they can't dial across the galaxy. But they're just as functional as any other gate (else, why bother putting a full dialing system on them) if you can find the power and safely channel it into the gate.

You'll note that was the big problem with the Destiny dialing back to Earth, too. It was about to overload. But it was still nearly capable of doing so... and I'm pretty sure that Earth is more than a few solar systems away.

I guarantee that once they gain full control of the ship, the 'limited range' will be all but forgotten. Especially within a single galaxy. Mark my words.

That said, it seems (based on the actual evidence of the show) that the big stopping block for the ancient Ancients was power supplies. That was the huge leap between then and closer-to-now-then. Hell, I don't think I've heard a single mention of naquadah since they've been onboard the ship.

 

[David cgc]

They must predate the one on the Destiny itself, by quite a large margin, then. Since, you know, it was able to connect to another gate that was further away than any other connection known to exist by monstrous magnitudes.

There's a difference between receiving and transmitting.

That also doesn't mean they're any more limited themselves. It means the fuel used to power them are limited, just like the Destiny herself. So of course they can't dial across the galaxy. But they're just as functional as any other gate (else, why bother putting a full dialing system on them) if you can find the power and safely channel it into the gate.

There's no reason to say they're two different things. Maybe the thing that's more primitive about them is that they can't use power as efficiently. For an SG-1 gate, we've never seen its range limited practically by power. If you could put in enough electricity to turn it on, you could dial anywhere in the galaxy. That's obviously not the case with the SGU gates.

 

[Checkmate]

I'm not saying that they are or aren't limited like that. I'm saying that we don't actually know for certain, and can't keep trying to say that they're definitely inferior or that the Destiny is definitely slower than a hyperdrive.

As for the stargates, the total lack of an actual DHD (as opposed to their handheld one) is a big indicator that they simply don't have much power on their own. They don't have a full-blown DHD or even the benefit of a nuclear power grid. We don't even know if there's an ounce of naquadah in their construction.

I'm willing to bet the next episode is going to demonstrate that their range can be enhanced, too. Considering the previews anyway. Which will just prove my point all the more. Until we get some actual proof, you can't say that they really are that inferior themselves. All indications so far is that the stargates and Destiny herself simply has inferior power reserves to call upon. Not that that makes their power cells inferior in and of themselves (demonstrated by the fact that they're still ticking at near full capacity after a million years, when ZPMs are barely functional after about 10,000), they just don't store as much at one time as the more advanced technology does.

 

[David cgc]

Well, to be fair, those ZPMs were running a shield holding back an ocean continuously. The ones that weren't under constant use seemed to hold a charge just fine.

 

[StarshipDefiant]

This episode settles it, they just explicitly mentioned to being within the same galaxy.