5x03 Victory of the Daleks (Grading/Discussion) SPOILERS!

[Admiral_Young]

Are we going to see the crack in every single episode this season? We already have in the first three episodes...the thing with Bad Wolf was that it was more of a subtle thing you saw it in places and episodes every once in a while. To be honest I noticed it myself a couple of times and then made the connection when the Doctor did but he dismissed it at first and then of course Rose made the Bad Wolf connection and figured out what it meant. The space crack thing it seems we're getting bashed over the head with and I'm convinced that it is the TARDIS that is bringing the Doctor and Amy to places where the crack has affected time. It will be curious to see where the crack is in the two parter.

 

[Psion]

I'm disappointed that they're being so obvious with the crack. In Eleventh Hour, the second crack was subtle and easy to miss, but then in both of the following episodes, they made the stupid thing glow. That just stinks of lack of faith in the audience.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Next weekend should be a blast though...the return of the Weeping Angels and River Song!

We'll see, that episode looks like a potential trainwreck if you ask me but we'll see. I guess I haven't exactly been sold on River Song as someone the Doctor would take a shine too over all the people he's encountered and the Weeping Angels seems to me a great one-time monster that I'm not sure I care to revisit.


I hadn't really noticed how tall Karen was until this episode. I have to agree with those who thought the disarming (no pun intended) of the bomb was a bit much (somewhat RTD-ish though). The new Daleks might have impressed me when I was 10 but I think the other models were more to my taste. I wonder what they'll do with the Cybermen because they seem determined to throw a fresh coat of paint on everything.

The Spitfires were fun enough that I could overlook their implausibility. I liked the Jammy Dodger(?) bit as well but the Doctor was just a bit too cavalier with the Daleks if you ask me. I liked the Dalek's voices dripping with their usual disdain even when trying to be pleasant, "Would YOU like some TEA!", "I am your sol-DIER".

Do you think they are going a bit Mary Sue with Amy Pond or is she just contributing as a good companion might?

 

[Captain Pike]

We'll see, that episode looks like a potential trainwreck if you ask me but we'll see.
..
the Weeping Angels seems to me a great one-time monster that I'm not sure I care to revisit.

Yeah I know what you mean, I have similar reservations. But we'll see how it goes I guess..

 

[Candlelight]

The Daleks in 2005 were redesigned to match Rose's height.

The Daleks in Victory of the Daleks were redesigned to match Amy.

Coincidence? Or will Amy have further dealings with them...?

 

[UncleMac]

I'm disappointed that they're being so obvious with the crack. In Eleventh Hour, the second crack was subtle and easy to miss, but then in both of the following episodes, they made the stupid thing glow. That just stinks of lack of faith in the audience.

Where was the crank in Eleventh Hour?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I'm disappointed that they're being so obvious with the crack. In Eleventh Hour, the second crack was subtle and easy to miss, but then in both of the following episodes, they made the stupid thing glow. That just stinks of lack of faith in the audience.

Where was the crank in Eleventh Hour?

It was on an oscilloscope (toward the end I think?).

 

[UncleMac]

I'm disappointed that they're being so obvious with the crack. In Eleventh Hour, the second crack was subtle and easy to miss, but then in both of the following episodes, they made the stupid thing glow. That just stinks of lack of faith in the audience.

Where was the crank in Eleventh Hour?

It was on an oscilloscope (toward the end I think?).

Okay. I wondered why he turned that off. I guess he was hiding it from Amy.

 

[Neroon]

Word of caution, try to avoid posting a series of consecutive messages. Make use of the edit feature where possible. The excitement of a new series and the fun of commenting while watching an episode together is understandable. But once the episode is over, remember to use that Edit button

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

the main problem I have with this episode is that there were so many things that defied sense, such as getting spitfires ready for fighting in space in about 10 mins and the whole disarming the bomb with getting the android to think about love...

Oh, but wasn't this a much more plausible and traditional Dalek story than the RTD era shows?

No?

It's also possible that the Doctor is (un)-intentionally traveling to places that already have the crack.

There has always been a season theme. Think of the crack has this season's bad wolf.

Sort of, except that "subtle" and "interesting" don't seem to be Moffat's thing where Big Bads are concerned.

Smith's Doctor is coming along nicely as a suitable assistant to Amy Pond, though - just as long as she continues to have the critical insight that pulls their bacon out of the fire every week.

 

[Slugboy]

Ever since last week, there's still moments where it feels like the Doctor doesn't trust Amy yet. Especially when he was leaving her behind.

One think which struck me was when the Doctor and Churchill were arguing over Bracewell's blueprints near the beginning of the episode, and the Doctor shushes Amy abruptly. At the moment, I thought "wow, the Doctor treats Amy like crap".

Then after seeing the Doctor leave Amy behind to go to the Dalek ship, and his kissing her on the forehead near the end, it occurred to me that the Doctor isn't treating Amy like crap---he's treating her like a seven-year-old girl, which is the age at which he first met her (and from the Doctor's perspective, that first meeting happened a few days ago at most). I suppose it's possible he still sees her that way.

EDIT: Also, when Amy goes to ask the Dalek what his evil plan is, the Doctor verbally tries to stop her by saying "Amy. Amelia!" When adults reprimand kids, they often use the child's full name (i.e. a child who is affectionately called "Bobby" would be called "Robert" when getting yelled at)

 

[Sci]

I thought it was quite average myself, not really doing anything with the Daleks that hasn't been done before (They got away at the end of Doomsday, and again at the end of Evolution of the Daleks). I feel it's worth mentioning that in the time period the new Daleks are currently in, their ancestors from before the Time War will be living on Skaro, so they're hardly the only Daleks around.

My theory has always been that the Time War erased the Daleks and Time Lords from history, with only the species possessing temporal technology being aware of their erasure; as such, yeah, those Daleks are the only ones around (apart from the previous post-Time War Dalek populations we've seen already).

Oh and I did find the Scottish stuff annoying. I don't mind her being talking about Scottish. But Scottish pride? Completely unnecessary in a show that is not only national but international.

What's wrong with Scottish pride? I'm an American and it certainly doesn't bother me any. The English get to be proud of England without anyone making a fuss over it; why not the Scottish being proud of Scotland?

Something about it didn't work. And I can't figure out why the Doctor would have left the bomb robot behind at all.

That was just stupid.

Oh, c'mon, it's obvious. He recognizes that the android is sentient and should have the right to live the life it wants, especially once it has demonstrated that it is capable of resisting Dalek destruction commands.

Hmmmmmmm.

First we had RTD with nhis gay agenda.

Now we have Moff and his Scottish agenda.

Gasp!

¡Es horrible!

Goddamn Scots. Why can't they just be embarrassed about their country like decent folk?

Besides, with all the Union Jack/U.K. fist-pumping this episode did, I don't think anyone can reasonably argue this show's anti-Unionist. It's clear pro-Scottish and pro-Unionist.

Also, anyone who says that Amy doesn't have a thing for the Doctor after this episode is just being silly.

 

[Demonland]

I liked the episode. Not my favourite Dalek episode but certainly not my least. The new Dalek design is just too bulky for me. I love the new eye stalk. I love the new neck. I don't mind the colours and they are a nice throw back to the Cushing movies which I loved as a kid. If they threw in a green and purple one I would have sworn that they were an RTD creation . I don't really mind the larger bumper but I absolutely detest the large backside that gives them the side on appearance of being hunch backed. They just look absolutely ridiculous from the side.

I am intrigue by the whole Amy not remembering the Daleks which begs the question is Amy the only one that doesn't remember? Or does no one else (ie: Sarah Jane or Wilf) remember? Or are we indeed in an AU and that never happened in this universe?

Obviously the Doctor returning for Amy as a kid that we didn't see will be a major part of this.

I think the point of the crack being like a hit on the head with a sledgehammer could be handle a bit subtler. Were the Bad Wolf/Torchwood/Saxon bits that obvious? I remember completely missing some of the references and it was until I trawlled the internet later that I found out. Mind you I wasn't really looking for them at the time. You'd have to be blind Davros to miss these ones though.

Next weeks episode looks great. I thought 4 Weeping Angels were creepy so I'm going to love a whole cavern full of them. Also if we are in an AU (obviously not confirmed just speculation) how will this effect the Doctor and River's future relationship?

 

[davejames]

Yeah... there was definitely something off about this episode. I think the biggest problem for me is that, for a story involving WWII, Churchill, and the Daleks, the scale of the episode just felt way too small and limited. A story like that demands to be told on a much grander canvas, and not just in one bunker with a few barely defined characters. There was just no weight behind it at all.

That said, I still thought the first half was decent enough. The Doctor's frustration and anger at the Daleks was very well written and played. And the standoff on the Dalek ship was genuinely exciting.

But then it suddenly starts to get a bit silly and childish. The spitfires in space should be thrilling, but it's barely explained and hard to take seriously. And the robot with the bomb and the feelings just... defies explanation.

I WILL be one of the few to say I love the new Daleks though. Color, design, voices, everything. I just hope they're used better in their next episode.

And I also hope Moffat gets back to exploring the unique, magical relationship between Amy and the Doctor. THAT's the thing that really made the first episode stand out, and it's starting to feel like that's being lost a bit...

 

[Crusher Disciple]

I've also seen him as Baron Harkonnen and a Nazi somewhere.

Oh, I thought that was him!

 

[Shazam!]

but wasn't this a much more plausible and traditional Dalek story than the RTD era shows?

The only one that has ever felt like a 'traditional' Dalek story was Daleks In Manhatten/Evolution Of The Daleks with the Daleks running around being knobheads and messing about with genetic mutations.

 

[Mr Awe]

Meh! That one stunk! It had absolutely nothing going for it. It was just a poor excuse to introduce colorful Daleks.

The story: bland. We knew the Daleks were there for some evil plan. Obviously the scientist hadn't invented them. The plan was revealed almost right away. No mystery at all. Resolutions were handed to them. Why didn't the Daleks kill the scientist guy right away so his knowledge couldn't be used against them.

Really, just because he had knowledge, they could implement it into spacebourne Spitfires immediately?!! Absurd. It felt like solutions were handed to them while the Doctor stood around chatting with the Daleks.

Really, there was a device just laying around that could rebuild a new improved Dalek race, ready made?! And, there was a contrived reason the Doctor had to be involved otherwise it would've just happened. They needed his testimony. Give me a break.

Characters: Didn't like the actor who played Churchill. None of the guest characters were memorable at all.

In the pictures we saw before the episode, I didn't mind the new look Daleks. Seeing them in the episode, I think they're a step down from the previous version.

Mr Awe

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Yeah... there was definitely something off about this episode.

The writing was peculiarly choppy, as if stuff had been cut out. The weepy young officer with the missing boyfriend was like half a minor subplot that just got lost. Someone will doubtless insist that such scenes make sense "to show the loss of of life in war" and "because stuff like that happens" - which from a story construction POV is nonsense. One scene suffices for that kind of nod to the possibility that someone in the audience doesn't yet know that War Is Bad or needs to be flattered that they're watching something worthy of being taken seriously, but revisiting it three times without it leading somewhere is amateur night.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

but wasn't this a much more plausible and traditional Dalek story than the RTD era shows?

The only one that has ever felt like a 'traditional' Dalek story was Daleks In Manhatten/Evolution Of The Daleks with the Daleks running around being knobheads and messing about with genetic mutations.

Yeah, that one was the worst.

I enjoyed the whole "testimony" angle that connected the story to the RTD thread about the human/Dalek fusions.

Someone here said in advance of the show that it was rumored to be a big "FU" to the RTD era, and that turns out (not surprisingly) to be not true - but I'd guess that whoever came up with that idea was referring in a confused way to either the premise that the human/Dalek fusions were not "the real Daleks" or to the apparent reset of humanity suddenly not remembering the major cataclysmic events that RTD liked to throw willy-nilly at us.

 

[The]

In fact, I think it was very much Gatiss still writing for RTD's era. The whole script had Russel all over it. Same inherent story beats, same basic companion motivation (wuv! ), same nonsense science, over-the-top spectacle, overt national naval-gazing, and silly loose ends. Totally RTD all over.

For me, Gatiss hasn't hit one out of the park since The Unquiet Dead...