Wasn't the Soveriegn-class a (long-overdue) successor to the hundred-year-old Excelsior-class?
Superships
- Thread starter Magellan
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Wasn't the Soveriegn-class a (long-overdue) successor to the hundred-year-old Excelsior-class?
Some will hate me for bringing this supership up, but...
The Alternate Enterprise
A 725-meter monster powered by six warp cores, and armed with pulse phasers seemingly designed specifically to defeat the Nerada's missiles. Saucer windows the size of the viewscreen. A fleet of shuttles.
If the AU is off-limits, feel free to ignore
The Alternate Enterprise
A 725-meter monster powered by six warp cores, and armed with pulse phasers seemingly designed specifically to defeat the Nerada's missiles. Saucer windows the size of the viewscreen. A fleet of shuttles.
If the AU is off-limits, feel free to ignore
^ Never refrain from speaking your mind around here (you bastard).
I wonder if the monster-prise may have existed in some form in the true universe. If you buy as I do that the truEnterprise was a medium or medium-large ship then Starfleet would have had few upper end of the scale ships too. The nuEnterprise might has been in true Kirk's Starfleet under a different name.
I wonder if the monster-prise may have existed in some form in the true universe. If you buy as I do that the truEnterprise was a medium or medium-large ship then Starfleet would have had few upper end of the scale ships too. The nuEnterprise might has been in true Kirk's Starfleet under a different name.
Yes, the Enterprise G.
I don't believe so. IMO the alt-1701 is the connie we know, redesigned to fight space octopii from the future. I don't think the Prime connie exists in the AU.
I think we just have to accept that the Prime Enterprise wasn't the biggest ship in the Federation. Huge ships like the Kelvin preceded it in 2233, and I wouldn't be suprised if the double-hulled half-saucered battleship-style USS Newton, and the rest of the "Kelvin kitbash" fleet co-exists with the connies we know in the prime universe. YMMV, of course.
Franz Joseph in the 70's came up with three-nacelled Dreadnoughts too.
Perhaps that's what the giant balloon in TAS "Practical Joker" tried to imitate, and what seemed to convince the Romulans?
I always liked this idea, too. Kirk was supposed to be the futuristic Horatio Hornblower, and that hero didn't command the biggest ships of his nation...
The Kelvin need not be considered particularly huge. The various details we witness would nicely make the ship match one of Franz Joseph's single-nacelled destroyers, too - just with an additional pod and a slightly shorter neck.
Even though I prefer the SI system, MKDNV. Perhaps that "family" of ships (with an obvious shared engine design style) was the hottest hot in the 2220s-30s, and Prime Starfleet introduced a new style in the 2240s (plus refitted the engines of that style onto preexisting ships such as the FJ destroyers that had previously looked like the Kelvin) but the STXI one skipped that and instead waited until the 2250s to produce the nu-Enterprise style?
Timo Saloniemi
That's only because we havent seen anything substantial onscreen that is past the end of Voyager. Nemesis was set after it, but that is a movie that focuses on the Enterprise and it's crew.
It's perfectly reasonable to think that Prometheus is still in it's testing phase, sorting out any small problems that occured in it's use in the Voyager episode it first appeared. Nothing shown indicates it was a failed experimenet.
And frankly, I see no reason to imagine it would ever be classed as one. Just because fans deride it because they dont like it, doesnt mean it was a bad ship. Fans bitch about everything.
I don't see the Prometheus as a failed experiment ... furthermore, there's nothing from on-screen evidence to indicate it could be seen as such.
In fact, on-screen evidence suggests it was a very successful experiment (despite the fact it was in control by the Romulans for a short period of time).
Also ... we have seen a Prometheus class ship in the Endgame episode as part of the fleet to meet the incoming Borg sphere, which indicates it might have been out of the testing phase relatively soon once 'Message in the bottle' episode ended, and was put into production.
In fact, on-screen evidence suggests it was a very successful experiment (despite the fact it was in control by the Romulans for a short period of time).
Also ... we have seen a Prometheus class ship in the Endgame episode as part of the fleet to meet the incoming Borg sphere, which indicates it might have been out of the testing phase relatively soon once 'Message in the bottle' episode ended, and was put into production.
A Prometheus-class ship was also part of the 26th century battle against the Sphere Builders that we saw briefly in that Enterprise episode with the Enterprise-J, along with a TNG Klingon cruiser and a Nova-class ship (IIRC).
Yeah, the ships were probably meant to be "Generic future starships", but considering Starfleet ships are still spaceworthy after in 100 years, that they still make new Excelsiors after 100, and that Klingons have been using the D7 for over 200 I don't think it's entirely out of the question that the ships we saw were what they appeared to be.
I think the episode was "Azati Prime", but I might be wrong.
Yeah, the ships were probably meant to be "Generic future starships", but considering Starfleet ships are still spaceworthy after in 100 years, that they still make new Excelsiors after 100, and that Klingons have been using the D7 for over 200 I don't think it's entirely out of the question that the ships we saw were what they appeared to be.
I think the episode was "Azati Prime", but I might be wrong.
We might actually argue that the big battle there was fought by a Grand Alliance of All Eras: that is, those ships that looked like 24th century designs actually participated from the 24th century! Such a thing should have been well within the means of several 26th century players, even if the Sphere Builders themselves were less than skilled in moving hardware through time.
Just fast food for thought, is all.
Timo Saloniemi
Just fast food for thought, is all.
Timo Saloniemi
Possible yes, but unlikely when we take into consideration the premise how the entire Federation was supposed to have been fighting the Sphere Builders ... also this might include the Romulans, Klingons and other major powers.
Why bring ships from 200 years into the past to fight a war in the 26th century?
The temporal paradoxes that would ensue might prove to be catastrophic.
They may have the ability to manipulate time well in the 26th century ... but I doubt that it can be done on the Q level that if a critical ship is destroyed that at one point made a huge difference in history, it will not affect anything else ... that kind of temporal manipulation would likely be on a level of 29th or 31st century Federation.
Why bring ships from 200 years into the past to fight a war in the 26th century?
The temporal paradoxes that would ensue might prove to be catastrophic.
They may have the ability to manipulate time well in the 26th century ... but I doubt that it can be done on the Q level that if a critical ship is destroyed that at one point made a huge difference in history, it will not affect anything else ... that kind of temporal manipulation would likely be on a level of 29th or 31st century Federation.
I'd imagine that by the 26th century the superpowers would be able to replicate entire starships - perhaps not ones like the 2-mile long Enterprise-J, but a 400-meter and smaller ones like the Prometheus, Nova and Vor'cha?
Maybe crews of holograms and androids?
Maybe crews of holograms and androids?
Circular logic to the rescue: if the situation was dire enough that the future of the Federation was hanging on a thread, little or nothing would be lost by summoning help from past centuries. The side fighting against the Sphere Builders didn't appear to be fielding an invincible armada of 26th century superships; we're left with the options that the fleet there was the best possible 26th century one, with a few legacy ships, barely sufficient for the job (which calls to question why the superiority of that century doesn't show), or that the fleet there was a desperate hodgepodge, and only through such desperation sufficient for the job... From there it's a short jump to deciding that 26th century desperation=time travel.
Timo Saloniemi
This really doesn't have much to do with Superships, but...
I think the Producers/Writes really inhibited the interplay between the Series (TOS to VOY).
If they would have only NOT set any specific time frame for any of those, like in the opening Monologues.
Actors and Equipment which (with that) were inadvertently forced into obsolescence just because of the time which had passed.
I SO enjoyed seeing the characters of Spock in TNG, Quark in TNG and VOY, Riker in VOY, ENT, Scotty, others.
Things like that really put a connectivity to ALL our loves.
I think the Producers/Writes really inhibited the interplay between the Series (TOS to VOY).
If they would have only NOT set any specific time frame for any of those, like in the opening Monologues.
Actors and Equipment which (with that) were inadvertently forced into obsolescence just because of the time which had passed.
I SO enjoyed seeing the characters of Spock in TNG, Quark in TNG and VOY, Riker in VOY, ENT, Scotty, others.
Things like that really put a connectivity to ALL our loves.
But in "borrowing" ships from the past you're putting more at risk than the future.
Even if the Federation was doomed to die in the 26th century battle, they wouldn't have the right to potentially unravel the lives of trillions by stealing ships and derailing the 24th century, thus perhaps bringing the fall of the Federation forward.
It's easier to say that we saw generic futuristic-looking ships, or that 24th C ship designs are being reused and upgraded with the modernest tech, or that the battle was fought with many obsolete "cannon fodder" ships, not unlike the Mirandas and D7s in the Dominion War.
Even if the Federation was doomed to die in the 26th century battle, they wouldn't have the right to potentially unravel the lives of trillions by stealing ships and derailing the 24th century, thus perhaps bringing the fall of the Federation forward.
It's easier to say that we saw generic futuristic-looking ships, or that 24th C ship designs are being reused and upgraded with the modernest tech, or that the battle was fought with many obsolete "cannon fodder" ships, not unlike the Mirandas and D7s in the Dominion War.
I think that SF had some common sense and actually left those ships in active use by upgrading them over time because they saw no need to discard perfectly capable ships.
Indeed, if the standard hull-life expectancy of ships in SF is about 100 years (probably more in the 24th century because of better materials in use and replacements over time because of the battle), I can easily see these ships surviving into the 26th century fully upgraded with modern technology as well.
The Lakota was a prime example of a nearly 100 year old design being completely upgraded to the latest standards.
24th century ships could be even more compatible in this retrospect due to better/newer designs and already featuring base technologies that probably contributed to the 26th century development.
Indeed, if the standard hull-life expectancy of ships in SF is about 100 years (probably more in the 24th century because of better materials in use and replacements over time because of the battle), I can easily see these ships surviving into the 26th century fully upgraded with modern technology as well.
The Lakota was a prime example of a nearly 100 year old design being completely upgraded to the latest standards.
24th century ships could be even more compatible in this retrospect due to better/newer designs and already featuring base technologies that probably contributed to the 26th century development.
I have this old theory that when a Starfleet vessel get too long in the tooth for Starfleet use, the Federation either tranfers the older starships to a member worlds fleets (if they still have member fleets), similar to the way that US military fighter jets are transferred to various states national guards.
Or the Federation semi-strips the older starships down and sells them to one of the Federation's external allies, again similar to the way the US military sometime sells old warships to foreign nations.
I think a lot of the vast fleets of starships that showed up during the Dominion war were not solely Starfleet, but were also collections of individual member worlds fleets, either called up by Starfleet or independently dispatch by the member governments following a formal request by the Federation.
A similar situation to the Dominion war, but in the 26th century could see the member fleets, composed of older (sometimes much older) starships, heaving in action one more time.
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At no point does a state own an ANG aircraft. They are USAF assets and are moved around from base to base and unit to unit by order of the USAF. My local ANG fighter wing is converting from F-16 to A-10. Those Vipers aren't going away, they are just going to a different state or possibly back to active duty.
