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Treaty of Algeron: important question

atomicmilkshake

Cadet
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So, in "The Pegasus" (TNG), Captain Erik Pressman of the U.S.S. Pegasus directly violated the Treaty of Algeron, a treaty signed in good faith by the United Federation of Planets with the Romulan Star Empire (and in which it was agreed upon that the Federation was strictly prohibited from developing cloaking technology), by developing, in conjunction with an unspecified division of Starfleet Intelligence, a "phased" cloaking device, allowing matter to pass through matter while completely invisible.

This led to a mutiny by the crew of the Pegasus, including a younger William T. Riker, and a subsequent cover-up by Starfleet Intelligence.

My question is this: why -- OH WHY, would the Federation, in capitulation, for appeasement, in concession, or otherwise, agree to NOT develop cloaking technology unilaterally, while the Romulan Star Empire was free to do so. Isn't that an unfair advantage? Why would the Federation agree to such a ridiculous provision? What was gained by making such a concession? :confused:
 
There are plenty of similar examples in Earth history, although most of them involve a clear-cut war where the loser is banned from doing stuff. Perhaps the Federation lost a big war in the early 24th century?

Or it might suffice for the Romulans to threaten the Feds with a big one. They apparently live right next door to Earth - and ever since the late 23rd century, they have had devastating weapons they can launch in a strategic strike, thanks to their cloaks, whereas the Feds have no comparable advantage. The Romulans can probably pretty much dictate terms, then. Or could, in the early 2300s when their drastically increased threat value was hot news and not something the Feds had gotten used to.

Perhaps we could compare this to certain Cold War details. The USSR couldn't have intermediate-range missiles in Cuba, while the US couldn't have intermediate-range missiles in Turkey, or else all hell would have broken loose. Yet the two sides didn't actually come to blows over the issue. The loss was asymmetric, of course: Soviet IRBMs would have threatened US mainland in Cuba but continued to threaten US allies when withdrawn to the east, whereas US IRBMs could only threaten the Soviet block if deployed in Turkey. So essentially the Soviets won that round - a relatively meaningless round as IRBMs were not the only US means of threatening the USSR, but still perhaps a good analogy for the Treaty of Algeron thing.

Timo Saloniemi
 
These things are always a game of give and take. The Federation gave up cloaking technology that it did not use so it probably to some politician felt like a smaller concession than it was. For the Romulans to reciprocate would force a refit of their whole fleet and a totally new strategic outlook, they probably also felt they could not cripple the Romulans vis a vis the Klingons.
The Romulans probably gave up something important that we simply don't hear about on screen. Perhaps the Romulans gave up some WMD, for example they expanded upon the Polaric test ban treaty of 2268 [VOY "time and again"] and decommissioned stocks. This would pave the way for a Federation drive to eliminate all subspace weapons and ban them entirely in the second khitomer accords which I dont know a date for but the Romulans were probably in isolation, so did not participate but this would not matter if they had signed up to the essentials in Algeron.
 
They did it as a provision of this Treaty to reach a peace settlement with the Romulan Empire. Whether or not this policy is good is not really up to Starfleet officers like Picard and the rest of the Enterprise, and this is not discussed or addressed nearly enough to my satisfaction in this episode. In my opinion they should have focused less on Riker and Pressman and more on the political theories of deterrence and proliferation, and in turn why this Treaty was so important that Picard wasted a major trump card on principle, when the entire focus of the episode were the two other men and then Riker's career. Either way, imagine what would happen if your ship were caught cloaking and decloaking near the Neutral Zone with no good reason.

I think what complicated the Pegasus storyline was the entire notion of phasing/interphase. Does being out of phase qualify fully as being cloaked? I think this is a really blurry line. It depends on circumstance and intention too much to really answer in regards to the treaty.

Some might argue (and I would agree) that being able to pass through other matter is an important and understandable technological advancement in the quantum physics of the 24th century, and is a pretty good idea from ST safety and navigational perspectives. If one of the necessary consequences of being out of phase is that you cannot be seen or subject to sensors, I don't think this technically qualifies as a cloak, especially if the technology wasn't designed specifically to fool sensors and bend and diffract EM radiation. Perhaps the Federation could develop an interphase device that leaves a distinct particle or energy signature when it is being used to cut the deception and increase the transparency (pun intended) of Starfleet policy to develop such a device.

Then again, any situation where you are purposely rendering yourself impervious to all sensors and detection could easily be considered cloaking. From a fan perspective, I really wanted to see them go further with this storyline somehow, because even though I usually agree with Picard, the evil part of me was still so curious about the device that I couldn't believe he instantly condemned it and revealed it to the Romulans. Maybe Pressman should have just acted like it was an emergency/scientific phasing device the entire time.
 
They probably did it to simply avert a war with the Romulans. Remember that the Treaty was signed in the very late 23rd or very early 24th century. At this time, Starfleet was in the process of dismantling some of its military operations in the peace process with the Klingons. A war with the Romulans while the fleet was being scaled down would have been disasterous for the Federation.

The Romulans could have seen this and taken advantage of the situation. They threaten a war with the UFP, the UFP seeks a peaceful resolution, and the Romulans make a ban on cloaking technology a condition of that peace. In this case, the Romulans win this particular battle.

Of course, then the Federation abides with the treaty in good faith. Subsequently, the Romulans go into isolation for whatever reason (are we ever told why?). The UFP continues to honor its agreement because 1.) they want to live up to their word, and 2.) they don't see the need to develop cloaking technology (after all, they shortly make peace and an alliance with the Klingons and the Romulans aren't a threat to them anymore)

It wasn't until TNG's time when the Federation had any reason to seriously question the strategic implications of the Treaty - when the Romulans re-emerged from isolation, the Borg attacked, and the Dominion War began.
 
The Federation values peace above all else. it's foreign policy always has been to reach peaceful resolutions, even if it means getting the lesser end of the bargain.

I think in truth, the UFP couldn't give a rat's ass if it had the tactical disadvantage. as long as it kept the Romulans in check, then so be it.
 
Well, for one thing it averted a major war that would've killed billions and it WORKED. No war happened, and the Romulans actually kept up their end of the bargain. Plus, they may have given up some advantage they just didn't get into in the episode.

Also, cloaking tech wasn't all that important anymore anyways. The Feds already have ways of seeing past that, and the Treaty didn't ban them from continuing to develop anti-cloak technology.

So basically, they had the choice to stop a major war from happening and in exchange all they had to give up was a technology that wasn't all that foolproof anyways while still having the ability to develop technologies to counter said banned technology.

Take all that into mind, it's not such a bad choice.
 
But but BUT... appeasement! concession! capitulation! When you don't like someone, you can't agree with then on anything!

As for the actual question, the most easy answer is that the Romulans concedes something we didn't hear in the episode (since it was irrelevant for the discussion at hand).

Also, it served a dramatic purpose: since cloaking technology seemed to be so widespread in the 24th century, why didn't the Federation use it? The real-world answer was obviously that nobody wanted to watch the hero ship sneaking around like a thief in the night, but the Algeron stuff gave a in-universe reason for that.
 
Im not sure it was about stopping a war.
Remembering that what the federation is giving up is essentially a second strike capability akin to our trident subs, conventional (current) wisdom is that having such deterrence is what prevents major wars.

The Federation is very accommodating and conciliatory in its foreign policy but a stance of we will do everything we can to not look threatening is just absurd with a paranoid culture like the Romulans who would assume that just because they cant see the feds teeth does not mean they are not there.

It is likely the Federation gave up cloaking technology presuming their ability to keep up with better sensors, our heros can usually find a cloaked ship if they try hard enough so this may be evidence of the success of such a policy. It is slightly surprising that we have not seen cloaked ship hunting starships, akin to sub hunting planes, or the neutral zone lined with enormous sensor nets. Either of these would be an absolute must for a nation with any serious concern for its own security to live without second strike, they have to be confident they can stop the first.
 
But but BUT... appeasement! concession! capitulation! When you don't like someone, you can't agree with then on anything!

As for the actual question, the most easy answer is that the Romulans concedes something we didn't hear in the episode (since it was irrelevant for the discussion at hand).

Also, it served a dramatic purpose: since cloaking technology seemed to be so widespread in the 24th century, why didn't the Federation use it? The real-world answer was obviously that nobody wanted to watch the hero ship sneaking around like a thief in the night, but the Algeron stuff gave a in-universe reason for that.

I like your answer but I wasn't inferring that just because a particular party is considered an enemy, no agreement can ever be had. The intrinsic curiosity, most specifically, regards the wisdom, or lack thereof, of the Federation in abolishing development of cloaking technology.

However, upon further research, it appears that the Tomed incident of 2311 led to the negotiation of the Treaty of Algeron, a treaty of peace between the United Federation of Planets and the Romulan Star Empire. In it, an exchange of "concessions" occurred in which the Federation did indeed relinquish its right to develop cloaking technology, and the Romulans retreated from all interstellar affairs for a period of roughly 50 years, until 2364.

So it appears that the unmentioned concession on the part of the Romulans in "The Pegasus" (TNG) was their voluntary complete withdrawal to a state of protectionism and isolation from the military and sociopolitical scene of the Alpha quandrant for just over half a century. :shifty:
 
So it appears that the unmentioned concession on the part of the Romulans in "The Pegasus" (TNG) was their voluntary complete withdrawal to a state of protectionism and isolation from the military and sociopolitical scene of the Alpha quandrant for just over half a century. :shifty:

Just because the Isolation was a result of Algeron it does not necessarily mean that it was a condition of Algeron.
For the Romulans to give up interstellar relations with any other power or powers is an enormous concession, vastly larger than giving up cloaking technology. Powers often retreat voluntarily into isolation, the US in the '20's, Japan in the Tokugawa era, Britain's 'splendid isolation' of the 1880's and 90's, but it is very rare for such to be imposed. When it has been imposed in history it has been as a result of a serious defeat, the only examples I can think of are France's isolation after the war of 1870 and Russia's after the Crimean war. In both those cases the victors rigged the international system against the losers in order to prevent them from entering into any significant alliances, and the losers spent the next two decades trying to break out of this diplomatic straight jacket.
The Romulans appear to be naturally inclined to isolationism (at least vis a vis the federation) but to diplomatically tie their hands in such a way would be a total humiliation akin to a large concession of sovereignty. Just because you might do something of your own accord does not mean you are keen to be bound too it.
It seems rather more likely that Algeron gave them all they wanted from the federation, and so with no more to discuss they simply cut off contact. That leaves the question of Romulan concessions open, but probably less than the federation concessions.

[Edit: of course what is a humiliation to a Romulan and what is a humiliating to a human may be very different, however Romulans appear as a very prideful people, and they seem quite state centric, so sovereignty concessions are probably a big thing]
 
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This could easily be one of the misconceptions I've held but was just never corrected on... I thought there was a war between the Romulans and the Federation and it always stuck out in my mind as though the Federation was basically getting its ass kicked and so to end this war peacefully, they established the Neutral Zone and signed the treaty, thereby buying peace with a concession that made little difference to the Federation anyway (since developing the technology wouldn't be a practical issue for the Corps of Engineers).
-Withers-​
 
The Feds STOLE the cloak in the first, and had no right to exploit it (not that S31 didnt...) And anyways, in exchange, the Romulans would stay on their side of the NZ which was estabilished by the treaty. It prevented a war that would have been caused by this hostile action of theft. Not that it would have been war all at once, but its a snowball effect.
 
This could easily be one of the misconceptions I've held but was just never corrected on... I thought there was a war between the Romulans and the Federation and it always stuck out in my mind as though the Federation was basically getting its ass kicked and so to end this war peacefully, they established the Neutral Zone and signed the treaty, thereby buying peace with a concession that made little difference to the Federation anyway (since developing the technology wouldn't be a practical issue for the Corps of Engineers).
-Withers-​

Well, the Neutral Zone is much older, dating to the Romulan War before the Federation was even founded. Everything else, however, seems likely - except I don't think it was a full war, just the before mentioned small-scale Tomed Incident showing the Feds they would get their ass kicked if the Rommies went to war. The Romulans were happy they prevented the Feds from matching their only real advantage and cautious as they are, didn't want to take further risks by actually going to war.
 
The Tomed Incident that led to the Treaty was some kind of military action (never elaborated on) that resulted in thousands of casualties on both sides (maybe millions). In order to prevent a full-scale war (which would have killed BILLIONS) they agreed to the Treaty.

So, it was a choice between a bloody war that would've killed billions or giving up a technology that wasn't really THAT important anymore.
 
These things are always a game of give and take. The Federation gave up cloaking technology that it did not use so it probably to some politician felt like a smaller concession than it was. For the Romulans to reciprocate would force a refit of their whole fleet and a totally new strategic outlook, they probably also felt they could not cripple the Romulans vis a vis the Klingons.
The Romulans probably gave up something important that we simply don't hear about on screen. Perhaps the Romulans gave up some WMD, for example they expanded upon the Polaric test ban treaty of 2268 [VOY "time and again"] and decommissioned stocks. This would pave the way for a Federation drive to eliminate all subspace weapons and ban them entirely in the second khitomer accords which I dont know a date for but the Romulans were probably in isolation, so did not participate but this would not matter if they had signed up to the essentials in Algeron.

They probably did it to simply avert a war with the Romulans. Remember that the Treaty was signed in the very late 23rd or very early 24th century. At this time, Starfleet was in the process of dismantling some of its military operations in the peace process with the Klingons. A war with the Romulans while the fleet was being scaled down would have been disasterous for the Federation.

The Romulans could have seen this and taken advantage of the situation. They threaten a war with the UFP, the UFP seeks a peaceful resolution, and the Romulans make a ban on cloaking technology a condition of that peace. In this case, the Romulans win this particular battle.

Of course, then the Federation abides with the treaty in good faith. Subsequently, the Romulans go into isolation for whatever reason (are we ever told why?). The UFP continues to honor its agreement because 1.) they want to live up to their word, and 2.) they don't see the need to develop cloaking technology (after all, they shortly make peace and an alliance with the Klingons and the Romulans aren't a threat to them anymore)

It wasn't until TNG's time when the Federation had any reason to seriously question the strategic implications of the Treaty - when the Romulans re-emerged from isolation, the Borg attacked, and the Dominion War began.


These are probably the best points I've heard. Given that new alliance with the Klingon Empire (a power that was certainly not about to give up it's own cloaking technology), the Federation had the tactical advantage of two against one and the Romulans were indeed no longer seen as an immediate threat. I could see Londo's afore mentioned politician viewing it as a less painful concession than it appears on the surface, especially if the Federation also had the fall back position of borrowed (catch up) cloaking tech should the Romulans violate the treaty and hostilities broke out. Of course, we don't fully know what fruit the Klingon alliance bore that early on, but it's a good speculative start.
 
Of course, then the Federation abides with the treaty in good faith. Subsequently, the Romulans go into isolation for whatever reason (are we ever told why?). The UFP continues to honor its agreement because 1.) they want to live up to their word, and 2.) they don't see the need to develop cloaking technology (after all, they shortly make peace and an alliance with the Klingons and the Romulans aren't a threat to them anymore)

From what I can tell, it's the Tomed Incident that led the Romulans to sign the Treaty of Algeron and go into isolation.

You figure, the First Khitomer Accords were signed in 2293 (TUC). The Tomed Incident occurs 53 years before Season One of TNG, placing it in 2311.

Plus, the Federation (apart from The Enterprise Incident and the H.M.S Bounty) has never really used cloaking technology, for whatever reason. Getting the Romulans to sign the agreement by "giving up" something that they couldn't or wouldn't use, and possibly getting major concessions otherwise (As someone mentioned earlier, Serpents Among The Ruins, which I just finished reading not that long ago, covers the Tomed Incident).

Also, as seen with the Demilitarized Zone/relocation of colonists, and probably quite a few other examples, the diplomats and brass back on Earth tend to make "compromises".
 
Of course, now that ENT has shown us that Romulans already knew how to become invisible (or otherwise falsify their looks) in the 2150s, we can speculate that the Treaty of Algeron was in fact related to the original Romulan war (supposedly in the 2150s, although just possibly in the 2160s or 2170s). If the Romulans used invisible ships in that war, it's perfectly possible that the peace treaty involved a few words regarding invisible ships. A bit like how it was felt important to ban Germany from building submarines after WWI, as they had been a trademark German weapon in that war - even though the German navy was allowed to rebuild in many other ways.

The timing of Tomed or the treaty of Algeron is quite imprecise to begin with. Tomed is given absolutely no date in TNG "The Neutral Zone", but is said to have marked the beginning of the Romulan isolation; Algeron is said to have kept the peace and hindered Starfleet tactically for 60 years prior to TNG "The Pegasus", but may have been signed a lot earlier than those 60 years ago. In ENT "These Are the Voyages..", Troi says that Algeron redefined the Neutral Zone in 2311, but stops short of saying that Algeron was signed in 2311.

Basically the only objection to having Algeron signed in the 22nd century, then, is our heroes' insistence that invisibility is a mere theoretical possibility as late as "Balance of Terror". But we already know our TOS heroes were wrong there, and that their forefathers had already, uh, seen plenty of invisible ships.

Timo Saloniemi
 
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