Should they bring back Janeway?

[Mriana]

Well then, if that is how you feel, then you may end up seeing the death of Trek. It was the fans who brought Trek back when TOS ended and it is the fans who have a say in Trek. IMHO, the most recent stuff is not Trek and I pity the younger generation who think it is.

As for plenty of people liking it, I was talking about the final episode of Voyager, not the book. I didn't buy the final episode of Voyager. It was given to me via the TV... free TV, but I guess one gets what they pay for. Of course, by the same token, if people don't buy something, they don't make anymore, so say bye-bye Trek if that is what you believe, esp if you feel you have no say in the matter, except to not buy something.

 

[Thrawn]

It IS the fans who have a say in Trek - they have a say by purchasing what they love, and by all accounts, the Voyager novels are selling great. I'm certainly buying them. By doing so, I'm expressing the fact that I want them to make more. Which they are.

Looks to me like Trek is doing fine.

And ... wait, you PITY me? You PITY ME for disagreeing with you?!

Well fine - I pity you for not being able to get over yourself and enjoy some truly incredible stories. You have my pity. Feel better now?

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm curious. Would Voyager fans have been as upset if it had been Seven or the Doctor or Tuvok who had been killed? What about Tom or Chakotay or... Harry?

Before Janeway was killed off, there was a huge, angry, raging thread here on TrekBBS, which was polarized into two groups:

* One side demanding that Pocket Books "grow some balls at last" and be brave to kill off a regular character of "Star Trek", to make the ST novels more like real life.

* And the other side defending the fans of individual fans who might be advocates of a particular ST actor/character.

Some measure of begrudging consensual leeway was suggested that, when a regular ST actor dies, maybe it was time for that character to be "retired". eg. it was suggested that McCoy could be killed off now that De Kelley had departed. (Mind you, that elderly TNG McCoy had already had a death scene in a comic didn't seem to ruffle anyone's feathers).

Then Margaret Clark started teasing about the then-forthcoming "Death in Winter" hardcover, and then the cover art sent the Crusher fans (and the ST Anti-Death Lobby) into a frenzy. The debate was renewed but, ultimately, there was no "death in winter" and the book seemed to disappoint a lot of people, probably because the book ended up covering very different ground to their expectations.

But the challenge had been issued: Pocket Books might soon "grow some balls at last" and be brave to kill off a regular character of "Star Trek". Who would it be. I recall Marco and Margaret saying that, if it ever happened, it would be because the death set up the most, best story opportunities for all the other characters, and I do think they chose well.

Lurking in the background were "No more Re-set Button!" lobbiests. Hilariously, every time Paramount, CBS or Pocket grows some balls, someone else wants the Re-set Button to be pushed.

Poor ol' Janeway.

Then along comes JJ and Bad Robot. They avoid the temptation to push that Re-Set Button - and different people are angry and upset.

Well then, if that is how you feel, then you may end up seeing the death of Trek. It was the fans who brought Trek back when TOS ended and it is the fans who have a say in Trek. IMHO, the most recent stuff is not Trek and I pity the younger generation who think it is.

You have a pic of Majel Barrett as your avatar. Majel, Nimoy and Majel's son, Rod, have all embraced one of the examples of "the most recent stuff", JJ's movie, as being something that Gene Roddenberry would have liked.

Or are you only discussing the Pocket Books novels here?

You do realize that most of the ST authors of the novels were huge fans of TOS as kids? And you're telling them they don't know how to recognize real "Star Trek"?

You know, when I became a ST fan because of ST:TMP, fans of TOS "pitied" me because I didn't know "real Star Trek". That was sooooo patronizing and unwelcoming.

 

[Thrawn]

^ It's a fact of hardcore fanbases, the world around. There are always plenty of people who believe that:

1) The reasons that (insert series here) is great are exactly and only the reasons they, in particular, like it;
2) The vast majority of everyone else agrees with them;
3) (insert series here)'s creators/showrunners/writers/whatever ignore their opinion at Great Peril.

All three are usually false.

 

[Mriana]

It IS the fans who have a say in Trek - they have a say by purchasing what they love, and by all accounts, the Voyager novels are selling great. I'm certainly buying them. By doing so, I'm expressing the fact that I want them to make more. Which they are.

Oh they have their say in just more ways than purchasing. They have done many a letter campaign, the first was to bring Trek back. You would be surprise just how many ways Trek fans have a say about Star Trek besides spending money.

 

[Thrawn]

It IS the fans who have a say in Trek - they have a say by purchasing what they love, and by all accounts, the Voyager novels are selling great. I'm certainly buying them. By doing so, I'm expressing the fact that I want them to make more. Which they are.

Oh they have their say in just more ways than purchasing. They have done many a letter campaign, the first was to bring Trek back. You would be surprise just how many ways Trek fans have a say about Star Trek besides spending money.

As someone that participated in the Firefly letter-writing campaign that successfully lead to Serenity, the movie, being greenlit, I don't need to have this explained to me. But you're really just being obstinate on purpose. The purpose of a letter writing campaign is to inform the company that if they make something, you'll buy it. Either way, it all boils down to the same thing - you being willing to buy something.

 

[Mriana]

No I'm not being obstinate. You just don't like it when people disagree with you.

BTW, I didn't buy the book in which Janeway was killed. Be that as it may, I still have a say in bringing her back- all Janeway fans do. We have just as much say as you do, which is not obstinate. However, since we disagree with you, you enjoy saying a bunch of crap.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I think the best way to have your voice heard by Pocket would be to organize the BBJ fans into:

A: Buying the books Janeway appeared in. Not used. NEW. That shows an interest in seeing her further adventures in a way that Pocket cannot ignore. A purchase for a Janeway book is a vote for more Janeway.

B: You then have the BBJ fans write in. All at once. Not a petition. Letters. Not a form letter signed by a group. Individual letters. Thousands of them. Send them into Pocket expressing your desire to BUY those book.

Do those two things and you'll be doing something other than arguing with a guy who is putting his money where his mouth is.

 

[chelly]

I am curious to see what pocketbook sales were like before and after janeway's death. Something tells me there won't be a big increase or decrease. Though there was a few years between Christie's relanch (not the best) and Kirsten's books (which is hands down better).

 

[Thrawn]

No I'm not being obstinate. You just don't like it when people disagree with you.

You're misunderstanding me somewhere.

BTW, I didn't buy the book in which Janeway was killed. Be that as it may, I still have a say in bringing her back- all Janeway fans do. We have just as much say as you do, which is not obstinate.

This is exactly what I've been saying. You have exactly the same say as I do - you either buy it, or don't, plus perhaps the off chance that a letter or in-person conversation might change someone's mind (which is tremendously unlikely). We are both having a say in the current Pocket line; I am doing so by purchasing the books, since I like them. You are doing so by not purchasing the books, since you don't. Presumably, if more people are like you, someone will eventually say "gee, these are selling for shit, perhaps we should change them, like this giant stack of letters says we should." If, however, they sell brilliantly, that's not too likely to happen. Thus, we both have a say.

At the moment, my team appears to be winning. So tough noogies.

But I understand your perspective more than you give me credit for; in the Star Wars EU, for instance, my team is NOT winning. I hate the recent storylines a lot. I'm extremely disappointed in that creative direction. So I stopped buying them. Unfortunately, it appears that lots of people like them fine, so I'm not likely to get much out of Star Wars in the near future. Pisses me off, but there's always plenty more to read elsewhere.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Do those two things and you'll be doing something other than arguing with a guy who is putting his money where his mouth is.

Yup.

 

[Mriana]

I think the best way to have your voice heard by Pocket would be to organize the BBJ fans into:

A: Buying the books Janeway appeared in. Not used. NEW. That shows an interest in seeing her further adventures in a way that Pocket cannot ignore. A purchase for a Janeway book is a vote for more Janeway.

B: You then have the BBJ fans write in. All at once. Not a petition. Letters. Not a form letter signed by a group. Individual letters. Thousands of them. Send them into Pocket expressing your desire to BUY those book.

Do those two things and you'll be doing something other than arguing with a guy who is putting his money where his mouth is.

I haven't bought a Voyager book in a long while now and I've never bought an Enterprise book. So, I'm doing more than just arguing with someone who I don't believe is old enough to have participated in the first letter writing campaign. Thing is, those stragegies don't work. All it does is cause them to stop selling and writing the books, so it gets now where, UNLESS they know what we do want.

BTW, the S.T. section at local bookstores here in my city has gotten smaller and smaller. Some places it's non-existent. Goes to show what not buying does.

 

[Thrawn]

^ Did you even read his post? He was telling you to do exactly what you just said you should be doing - write letters.

And - once again - I PARTICIPATED IN A SUCCESSFUL LETTER WRITING FAN CAMPAIGN, so please get off your high horse. I'm plenty old enough to know how this works.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I think the best way to have your voice heard by Pocket would be to organize the BBJ fans into:

A: Buying the books Janeway appeared in. Not used. NEW. That shows an interest in seeing her further adventures in a way that Pocket cannot ignore. A purchase for a Janeway book is a vote for more Janeway.

B: You then have the BBJ fans write in. All at once. Not a petition. Letters. Not a form letter signed by a group. Individual letters. Thousands of them. Send them into Pocket expressing your desire to BUY those book.

Do those two things and you'll be doing something other than arguing with a guy who is putting his money where his mouth is.

I haven't bought a Voyager book in a long while now and I've never bought an Enterprise book. So, I'm doing more than just arguing with someone who I don't believe is old enough to have participated in the first letter writing campaign. Thing is, those stragegies don't work. All it does is cause them to stop selling and writing the books, so it gets now where, UNLESS they know what we do want.

BTW, the S.T. section at local bookstores here in my city has gotten smaller and smaller. Some places it's non-existent. Goes to show what not buying does.

But it's not enough to just write letters. Sure you're telling them what you want but you're not showing them that you're willing to buy them. By buying the pre-Before Dishonor books you're showing clear interest in the Janeway character. Sales figures don't lie.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I am curious to see what pocketbook sales were like before and after janeway's death. Something tells me there won't be a big increase or decrease. Though there was a few years between Christie's relanch (not the best) and Kirsten's books (which is hands down better).

Pocket don't release sales figures but we do know that the numbered VOY novels were supposedly struggling. The core audience for canonical VOY was much smaller than for TNG and TOS. Christie Golden's first VOY novel sold better than several others, giving her a little more leverage to get other VOY projects. She was selected to do the "Seven of Nine" novel, and the extra section at the back of "Endgame".

Despite mixed reviews, Golden's four relaunch novels went into multiple reprints. The first book, "Homecoming", surprised the naysayers, who hated everything about it, from the muddy cover, to the EMH troubles, to the return of the Borg threat... Those four books proved that there was huge interest in post-series VOY stories. It seems like they did much better sales that the "String Theory" trilogy, which went back to retread in-series ground.

And we were told that Kirsten's "Full Circle" did incredibly well, securing her place, now, as the author of at least two sequels.

Something tells me there won't be a big increase or decrease.

Something tells me you're wrong.

BTW, the S.T. section at local bookstores here in my city has gotten smaller and smaller. Some places it's non-existent. Goes to show what not buying does.

You are new around here. ST book buyers were very early adopters of online sales. Bookshops realised this over a decade ago, and you'll find the ST section of most bookshops tends to fluctuate only when there's a new ST project in the wind. Most bookshops I know increased ST stock to coincide with the new movie. Now they've let "Twilight" and "Doctor Who" and "Avatar" have the space again.

 

[chelly]

Therin said it alot better

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

I checked Amazon.com and a lot of the numbered Voyager books are OOP but a lot of them aren't. It wouldn't hurt your chances of more Janeway if a few thousand Voyager fans were to cause Amazon to sell those books out...

I'm just sayin'...

 

[chelly]

I am curious to see what pocketbook sales were like before and after janeway's death. Something tells me there won't be a big increase or decrease. Though there was a few years between Christie's relanch (not the best) and Kirsten's books (which is hands down better).

Pocket don't release sales figures but we do know that the numbered VOY novels were supposedly struggling. The core audience for canonical VOY was much smaller than for TNG and TOS. Christie Golden's first VOY novel sold better than several others, giving her a little more leverage to get other VOY projects. She was selected to do the "Seven of Nine" novel, and the extra section at the back of "Endgame".

Despite mixed reviews, Golden's four relaunch novels went into multiple reprints. The first book, "Homecoming", surprised the naysayers, who hated everything about it, from the muddy cover, to the EMH troubles, to the return of the Borg threat... Those four books proved that there was huge interest in post-series VOY stories. It seems like they did much better sales that the "String Theory" trilogy, which went back to retread in-series ground.

And we were told that Kirsten's "Full Circle" did incredibly well, securing her place, now, as the author of at least two sequels.

Something tells me there won't be a big increase or decrease.

Something tells me you're wrong.

BTW, the S.T. section at local bookstores here in my city has gotten smaller and smaller. Some places it's non-existent. Goes to show what not buying does.

You are new around here. ST book buyers were very early adopters of online sales. Bookshops realised this over a decade ago, and you'll find the ST section of most bookshops tends to fluctuate only when there's a new ST project in the wind. Most bookshops I know increased ST stock to coincide with the new movie. Now they've let "Twilight" and "Doctor Who" and "Avatar" have the space again.

I am glad to be wrong, I am also glad Kristen's books did so well. I just wish the books would come out alot quicker.

 

[Mriana]

^ Did you even read his post? He was telling you to do exactly what you just said you should be doing - write letters.

And - once again - I PARTICIPATED IN A SUCCESSFUL LETTER WRITING FAN CAMPAIGN, so please get off your high horse. I'm plenty old enough to know how this works.

And didn't I say that was doing more than arguing with punks? And for the record, I don't have to believe every claim that comes along, not even yours.

 

[Mriana]

You are new around here. ST book buyers were very early adopters of online sales.

Not really. I buy far too many books online. Personally, I'm not fond of online shopping. I rather go to the store, get what I want and bring it home.