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Trying to figure out the Federation Economy

Ok, but even the Tech Manual doesn't say 4500 is the maximum, only that it had at least that many patterns. It's possible (and very likely) that quite a bit of the memory capacity was still available for storing new patterns.

As for computer networks in the 24th century, I guess it is hard to determine what the civilian planet-side networks would be like by extrapolating from an isolated Starfleet vessel, but I think it's safe to assume that planet-side computers can easily and quickly connect to each other. Even today, it's rare to have a computer at home that does not access the internet, and in the 24th century it's likely that an isolated computer does not exist. Rather, every computer depicted is just one terminal connected to the entire computer network. I think it's called cloud computing nowadays, and it's probably what they'll have in the 24th century.

It seems to me that the 24th century depicted in Star Trek has an economic system based not on resource scarcity, but resource abundance. Probably it is a gift economy, and I agree with the Laughing Vulcan, accumulating social status is probably the goal. As far as I can tell, the only resource not in immense abundance in the 24th century is time, so if the UFP is still in a scarcity-based economic system, then time would be a scarce resource to build an exchange on.

But I'm no economist. :)
 
It seems to me that the 24th century depicted in Star Trek has an economic system based not on resource scarcity, but resource abundance. Probably it is a gift economy, and I agree with the Laughing Vulcan, accumulating social status is probably the goal. As far as I can tell, the only resource not in immense abundance in the 24th century is time, so if the UFP is still in a scarcity-based economic system, then time would be a scarce resource to build an exchange on.

But I'm no economist. :)
I don't think that they have an abundance of energy - or mining operations would not be as important and substances like dilithium wouldn't be as valuable as they always seemed to be in Trek. I can also think of at least one other resource that is there is most probably a lack of: land. Taking into account the high life standard, advances in medicine, extended life span, lack of wars and armed conflicts within the Federation worlds, I'm sure that Earth at least would be over-populated in the 24th century, and the same may be happening on quite a few other Federation worlds (unless they have a problem such as Andorians have in the relaunch novels, but I can't imagine that many Humans or Vulcans or other races used to warmer climates would be willing to move to Andoria). Establishing colonies would become very important, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
 
Pavonis: The problem is that in Trek we've never really seen or heard of computer networks, more Massive Mainframes (see Memory Alpha for the uber-example) that are remotely connected to. It sounds insane to me too, but that's what we're given. So, we can't say how any putative Fed network works.You could be right, but we don't have the data.

DevilEyes: Yeah, but then what's the standard of value? Until 1971-ish, you could say "Gold" for the US Dollar. Each dollar got you that value of gold, or at least could, in theory. Is it Latinum? (But I thought Latinum was a Ferengi thing...So what the heck was used before first contact with the Ferengi?)
 
I don't think that they have an abundance of energy - or mining operations would not be as important and substances like dilithium wouldn't be as valuable as they always seemed to be in Trek.

If you mean that dilithium must be mined, rather than replicated, I would point out that dilithium is only needed for matter-antimatter reactors. The Federation has fusion reactors, and probably still has solar and geothermal sources to generate power. They may even still use fission reactors. So I don't see why the need to mine dilithium must mean the UFP doesn't have abundant energy resources.

I can also think of at least one other resource that is there is most probably a lack of: land. Taking into account the high life standard, advances in medicine, extended life span, lack of wars and armed conflicts within the Federation worlds, I'm sure that Earth at least would be over-populated in the 24th century, and the same may be happening on quite a few other Federation worlds (unless they have a problem such as Andorians have in the relaunch novels, but I can't imagine that many Humans or Vulcans or other races used to warmer climates would be willing to move to Andoria). Establishing colonies would become very important, but I don't think it would solve the problem.

But we're not talking about Earth only, but the entire Federation. And the Federation must have thousands of planets at its disposal, and many hundreds of thousands more within easy reach with warp-capable colony ships. I don't see how land could be considered a scarce resource to an interstellar civilization like the UFP, when whole star systems are available for colonization.

And we have no reason to think Earth in the 24th century is overpopulated. We have no idea what the population is, so we cannot say it is "overpopulated".

Pavonis: The problem is that in Trek we've never really seen or heard of computer networks, more Massive Mainframes (see Memory Alpha for the uber-example) that are remotely connected to. It sounds insane to me too, but that's what we're given. So, we can't say how any putative Fed network works.You could be right, but we don't have the data.

OK, I concede computer networks aren't depicted in the Trek canon, but even if all computers are just terminals to a mainframe, I don't see why public replicators wouldn't be able to access that mainframe, which would still mean the replicators don't have to keep all patterns locally. Even public replicators should still be able to replicate any and all patterns stored in the mainframe, without any degradation in quality.
 
So far as hacking the public replicators - that would be hacking government property, and I imagine it would be responded to much like it would be today if you hacked the water system.
If you did have a replicator in your home (I don't think most people do) it would either be owned by you as property, or you would have it on some kind of lease. The actual replicator would be the size of a current home refrigerator or a bit bigger, recessed into the wall and connected to the data and power outlets. Hacking into your replicator might be a violation of intellectual property, I would imagine that the programs would be both complex and financially lucrative, it would be the same as hacking into your own computer's copywritten programs with perhaps similar penalties. If you downloaded a new tasty dish or stylistic fashion item's data pattern, you would have to pay out of your (bank) account.

Do you think that's creepy to give running water to people?
Well you aren't "given" running water, the water that come out of the tap is being sold to you. If you're not paying for it, someone else is paying for your use.
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Water brings up a interesting point, what actual gets replicated on a planet? If you were thirsty for water, would you really replicate water? Have this high tech device assembly hydrogen and oxygen into a fluid for you to drink or would your home have a plain old 19th century tap? While it might make sense for a starship to replicate most things,, on a planet I think that food would still be grown, harvested and transported. Meat raised and harvested. Fish harvested from the seas. Your clothing, while they could come out of a replicator, most likely were also grown and manufactured into apparel. Metals are mined (the show clearly shows this) and formed into products.
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In terms of the economy of the 24th century, I think it's very important that we've seen so few robots of any kind. Data, the exocomps, holographic doctor are about it. When Picard first saw the exocomps (misspelt?) he seemed very surprised that robots were being used in mining, which would seem on the surface to be a perfect job for them. Lack of robots would explain the man cleaning the floors outside the kobayashi maru simulator (23th century). 24th century society could have made the collective decision to restrict robots from most jobs as part of a philosophy of providing employment. From the example of the exocomp, even dangerous jobs (like mining) might be restricted to sentient beings.
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Water brings up a interesting point, what actual gets replicated on a planet? If you were thirsty for water, would you really replicate water? Have this high tech device assembly hydrogen and oxygen into a fluid for you to drink or would your home have a plain old 19th century tap?

Take the show another 400 years into the future. Now everyone can have a personal replicator/transporter/warp coil/phaser implanted into their upper left molar. Do they still use a 19th century tap for water? What about 400 years after that? Another after that? Do the Q still use 19th century taps just because they can?

We're being bogged down by the familiar because it's easy. The Trek future isn't about the same ol' same ol'. The dates don't matter. The question is about what's next. The post money, post toil economy.

The work most people do today uses far less of their mind than it can handle and wants to handle. We haven't changed that much from our primitive ancestors yet we're happier not having to walk around all day looking for food, water, and keep from danger...happier to join an internet fansite, follow a career path, make some friends. The type of work has gotten more pleasing because it stimulates more of our overdeveloped human mind. The Trek future, I imagine, is to our time as our time is to that of our primitive ancestors.

I think that if you didn't have to work, if you never had to have worked...and at whatever 20th-21st century jobs you've had/have...you'd want to work. Because the 24th century jobs will be more stimulating than whatever other entertainments there are out there.

There's something noble in work. Ideally, it's the vocational expression of one's being. One expresses themselves in their relationships, in the games they play, and, yes, in their work. That pride isn't purchasable or substitutable, I don't think. And I think that in the Trek future, work has so "evolved". The toil aspect is gone leaving only the enjoyable and fulfilling aspects that are more interesting to our overdeveloped human minds than "mindless" loafing distraction. I don't want to be distracted from life; I want to Live it.
 
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I think the Laughing Vulcan is getting somewhere here.

I was getting ready to call him 'The Ted Kennedy' of the Star Trek BBS! The bill is nearly passed!

Seems people are starting to get the big concept that GR got, I got, Harry Mudd got, that milliionaire got and Laughing crystallised. It is starting to sink in, though.

Looks like we are going to spend another few years in the House, getting this through. It could take nearly as long as the minimum wage, and that took EMK ages.

Though LV's idea is more palatable, I would think that some country's may have some sort of card, though I think LV had it in some measure, with a lot of conditions, which were a very good idea. I would say, in my experience, that it's those who would only give you one mouldy segment of orange, who end up running the show, and having the last say, one mouldy lump of orange in the 24thC would be quite a lot, more than the miserable existence that TGirl seemed to see. We wouldn't look very good to an examining outside bunch of aliens, if that's how we treated people and its not the ST I see.

T'Girl, water is so cheap, it is nearly free. I know we SELL it to people, and that will make your lobes pulsate, but it is so cheap we can nearly give it away and it is nearly a right. Some things which we think are a luxury now, might be nearly a right in the 24thC, and it will benefit everyone,as everyone benefits from water, now.

As to hacking into a replicator, I think you would only do this if you wanted to create a weapon, and that would be worrying. You could have steak every day, anyway, so there wouln't be much point and you wouldn't RENT them or LEASE them, they would be like the taps you get in your house now. Part of the furniture, or $10 from the local store and you could have GOLD ones, if you wanted!

TLV is getting somwhere. It's a good idea.

________________

'No Profit? Oh, ugly, very, very, ugly!!!'
 
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[Replicators] you wouldn't RENT them or LEASE them, they would be like the taps you get in your house now. Part of the furniture
You do realize that you in fact own the water taps in your house? And you own (rent, lease) the furniture too. These are all examples of property.
 
Hacking into your replicator might be a violation of intellectual property, I would imagine that the programs would be both complex and financially lucrative, it would be the same as hacking into your own computer's copywritten programs with perhaps similar penalties. If you downloaded a new tasty dish or stylistic fashion item's data pattern, you would have to pay out of your (bank) account.
.

I think this is more or less reasonable, except that I'm not sure how far it could really go. Not only would you have the Evol Hackers out there who have nothing better to do with their time than sit around cracking the replicator DRM, but you'd also have people releasing their personal creations under the 24th century version of a Creative Commons license. I suspect that for pretty much any household good, there's going to be a free version where you only have to pay for power and resources.

Personally, I think that the creators of http://eclipsephase.com/ are on to something with their economic system. The Federation economy could be what they call a 'mixed economy' - you have money for things that can't be just made in a cornucopia machine/replicator, like land, artifacts, or handmade goods, but there's also reputation scores that influence what parties you get invited to and how likely people are to do you favors.
 
I don't think that they have an abundance of energy - or mining operations would not be as important and substances like dilithium wouldn't be as valuable as they always seemed to be in Trek.

If you mean that dilithium must be mined, rather than replicated, I would point out that dilithium is only needed for matter-antimatter reactors. The Federation has fusion reactors, and probably still has solar and geothermal sources to generate power. They may even still use fission reactors. So I don't see why the need to mine dilithium must mean the UFP doesn't have abundant energy resources.
I see no reason to think they have an abundance of energy. Is there any evidence for that on screen? It's been suggested here that Federation economy is based on the abundance of resources, thanks to the use of replicators - but replicators need energy to work, and all those replicators need a lot of energy.

I can also think of at least one other resource that is there is most probably a lack of: land. Taking into account the high life standard, advances in medicine, extended life span, lack of wars and armed conflicts within the Federation worlds, I'm sure that Earth at least would be over-populated in the 24th century, and the same may be happening on quite a few other Federation worlds (unless they have a problem such as Andorians have in the relaunch novels, but I can't imagine that many Humans or Vulcans or other races used to warmer climates would be willing to move to Andoria). Establishing colonies would become very important, but I don't think it would solve the problem.
But we're not talking about Earth only, but the entire Federation. And the Federation must have thousands of planets at its disposal, and many hundreds of thousands more within easy reach with warp-capable colony ships. I don't see how land could be considered a scarce resource to an interstellar civilization like the UFP, when whole star systems are available for colonization.

And we have no reason to think Earth in the 24th century is overpopulated. We have no idea what the population is, so we cannot say it is "overpopulated".
First of all, we don't know what the population is, because Trek rarely really focused on Earth and revealed very little about its society (not counting speeches given by Starfleet officers), but I've already listed the reasons why it's very likely that it's overpopulated. The human population of Earth has in real life been growing ever since the 15th century. For the last 200 years, it has grown from under 1 billion to almost 7 billion. Even if we assume that the World War 3 decimated the human race, the conditions in the next 3 centuries would mean a huge growth in population.

Second, by "land" I don't mean just any land, but land that can be lived on. How many of those planets in the galaxy have the conditions suitable for the life of a Human? Same goes for Vulcans, or any other race in the Federation. You can't just pick any random unpopulated or underpopulated planet. (And in many cases, they might be unpopulated or underpopulated exactly for the reason that the life conditions are unsuitable for many species.)

Third, if you polled Humans from Earth if they'd rather remain on Earth and on the land where their family lived and where they were born, or if they'd rather go to live on a planet thousands of light years away, which option do you think would prove more popular?

There is absolutely no reason to think that there is an abundance of land in the Federation, and a lot of reason to think that there is scarcity. In fact, isn't the overpopulation and scarcity of land one of the driving forces behind the process of establishing colonies on other planets?
 
Finally, I will admit something: If there wasn't a downside to being on assistance, nobody would get off it. They may have to manufacture a downside, but there's a systemic incentive for the government not to want everybody on assistance.

As social methods seem a bit creepy to me, it makes more sense that there be (possibly artificially-generated) inferiority to what one gets on the BLS. Not too much, but just enough to motivate people who would otherwise be free-riders into participating in the labor force and the like.
Maybe it less of a built-in inferiority and more that if you're on assistance you have a restricted menu. The replicators . fabricators . delivery system has you on it's stort list. No caviar, alcohol, candy. You can get good nutritious food, but it kind of on the basic plain side. And you can only get the really health food too, if you want fatty, salty, delicious, you got to pay.
 
I see no reason to think they have an abundance of energy. Is there any evidence for that on screen?

We know matter-antimatter reactors are available, as they are used to power ships, even small ones such as the Delta Flyer. We know fusion reactors are common enough for colonists to have a fusion reactor in their house, per the Uxbridges in the TNG episode "The Survivors". If every home has its own fusion reactor, then energy should be pretty abundant. I'm not stretching the facts, just putting together the pieces laid out in the show.

It's been suggested here that Federation economy is based on the abundance of resources, thanks to the use of replicators - but replicators need energy to work, and all those replicators need a lot of energy.

I'm one of those that suggested that. It seems that given the fundamental technology depicted in Star Trek that the UFP society should be using a post-scarcity economic system. Given a replicator, able to produce anything given available power, then what could be scarce anymore? Is there anything that a replicator cannot produce? Even gold-pressed latinum was never said to be unreplicable. Some dangerous substances were restricted, and living biological specimens were beyond the capabilities of 24th century replicators, but overall there's apparently nothing a replicator couldn't produce. Food, drink, machines, clothing, even musical instruments have come out of replicators. That kind of technology would transform an economy.

Yes, replicators may need a lot of energy, but apparently the UFP society is able to provide that energy. Why else would replicators be common enough for households to have one? Every cabin on the Enterprise-D had a replicator terminal; is it a unreasonable to think that individual households would have a replicator? We know that replicators are small and portable enough to be installed in a home. The Enterprise-D crew donated a portable replicator to the Uxbridges when investigating the distress calls from Delta Rana in "The Survivors". And even though Robert Picard elected to not have a replicator in his home, the fact that he and Marie discussed getting one indicates it's possible to have at least one replicator per household, and the power to supply to it, probably from a fusion reactor either in the home or from the local power grid.

First of all, we don't know what the population is, because Trek rarely really focused on Earth and revealed very little about its society (not counting speeches given by Starfleet officers), but I've already listed the reasons why it's very likely that it's overpopulated. The human population of Earth has in real life been growing ever since the 15th century. For the last 200 years, it has grown from under 1 billion to almost 7 billion. Even if we assume that the World War 3 decimated the human race, the conditions in the next 3 centuries would mean a huge growth in population.
Sure, the high quality of life in the 24th century almost guarantees conditions ripe for "overpopulation" to occur, but what do we know about population growth post-WWIII? Did single-child families become more common? I think that's certainly possible. How many of the Star Trek: Enterprise characters (all born post-WWIII) had siblings, and how many did they have? Apparently Reed, Tucker, Sato and Mayweather all had at least one sibling (according to Memory Alpha), but Mayweather was a child of a Boomer family plying the space lanes, and Tucker and Reed each only had one sibling. Only Hoshi had more than one sibling. In the 22nd century, then, population growth may have been flat. By the 23rd century, of the TOS crew we only know that Kirk had a brother; the rest of the crew may have been only children (we know Chekov was, since his brother Piotr was a false memory), meaning that population growth on Earth in the 23rd century could be negative. By the 24th century, of the TNG crew, only Picard and LaForge had siblings. Smaller families may be more common in the 24th century, with possibly negative population growth on Earth. And even if population growth were quite high, I don't think we know enough about the capacities of colony ships to say whether significant chunks (hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions?) of the population could be moved rapidly to M-class worlds in Federation space.

Second, by "land" I don't mean just any land, but land that can be lived on. How many of those planets in the galaxy have the conditions suitable for the life of a Human? Same goes for Vulcans, or any other race in the Federation. You can't just pick any random unpopulated or underpopulated planet. (And in many cases, they might be unpopulated or underpopulated exactly for the reason that the life conditions are unsuitable for many species.)
M-class planets seem to be common in the Trek universe. McCoy in "Balance of Terror" cited the probability of "three million" Earth-type planets in the galaxy. How many of those M-class planets are in the territory claimed by the UFP, I don't know. But in addition to the naturally-occurring M-class planets, the UFP is capable of terraforming worlds to M-class conditions in a matter of decades. In the solar system alone, Mars and Venus were undergoing terraformation.

Third, if you polled Humans from Earth if they'd rather remain on Earth and on the land where their family lived and where they were born, or if they'd rather go to live on a planet thousands of light years away, which option do you think would prove more popular?
That's tough. I admit that a lot of people would choose to stay at home, but you have to admit that humans like to travel. Millions of people emigrated from their ancestral homes to the US in the 19th century, so ties to ancestral land aren't always strong. For instance, my family has no land, and so my family has no ties to any particular plot of dirt on this planet. :shrug:

In the 24th century, warp travel seems quick and easy enough for people to live on a planet hundreds of lightyears from Earth but still be able to visit home (if they even consider Earth home). Of course some of that is due to writing (ships always travel at the speed of plot), but even so, moving around within the UFP is probably little different than flying from one major city on Earth to another nowadays. For instance, in the 22nd century, Trip was able to take a trip to Vulcan while supposedly on shore leave at Earth, so a 16-lightyear trip is apparently no big deal even then, and travel between Earth and Vulcan should be much quicker and easier in the 24th century. Travel between Earth and furthest reaches of the UFP may not take more than a few weeks, and the passengers would probably travel in comfort the whole time.

So is it really a hardship to live thousands of lightyears from Earth in the 24th century? Do most humans even live on Earth? And would they necessarily care if they never even visit Earth?

There is absolutely no reason to think that there is an abundance of land in the Federation, and a lot of reason to think that there is scarcity. In fact, isn't the overpopulation and scarcity of land one of the driving forces behind the process of establishing colonies on other planets?
I don't think so. In the TNG episode "Sub Rosa", it is said that the Caldos colony was an attempt to make the colony an accurate replica of Scotland. A frivolous idea if the goal is to move large portions of a population to a new planet, but in my view such an activity is to be expected of an interstellar society's population that really doesn't have anything else to do with its time and energy. If someone is bored of the easy life on Earth in the 24th century, they can find a group of like-minded people (and aliens) and decide to found a colony just to recreate Scotland on a distant planet. That kind of undertaking takes a lot of energy and effort, and if energy and land weren't abundant in the 24th century UFP society, then those colonists must be the super-rich elite of the UFP. Maybe they are.

Bottom line is, though, that fusion power alone would give a society a great deal of energy to expend on things that we can't afford to try now, and a replicator, by it's very nature, would quickly give the entire population the means to support itself without laboring for money. Even if access to replicators and patterns were initially restricted, with licenses and software limits, it would only take one guy crazy enough to just give away intellectual property (replicator designs and patterns) rather than selling it, to demolish the idea of "selling" patterns or "leasing" replicators.
 
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They have an abundance of energy, because they have fusion. They have an abundance of things, because they have replicators. They have eliminated want, it has been said. Picard has said people live to contribute to the common good, which I assumes means all people, not just him. Unless there are non-people, which seems to be the case, in the very Reaganesque futures portayed by some here, which make me want to stick my head in the oven.

They're a bit crapadoodles and not the ST world I see. I see a world where you say thank you God, not curse him every day. They're not much better than America today, and even if the standard of living doesn't increase, there must be a better way of doing things. They seem to be based on the assumption that most people are selfish bums who don't want to contribute.

It's a bit like salt. Once we fought wars over it and now I can get it in my local store for 25p. We don't argue over it, we don't rent it, we don't lease it, we don't ration it out, we even sell it cheaply it to bums.

It's a bit like when you cook the tea for your husband or wife. You don't charge them for the service, you don't rent them the plate,knives,forks and spoons. You don't charge them for the potatoes,greens, and steak. You don't charge them for to sit on your knee at the end of it, cos we have a high standard of living, things are relatively cheap,now, and apart from that,NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT MONEY.

Unless you're a Ferengi, and laughed at in TNG world.

__________

'You Sir, are a Baboon.

'Baboon, Baboon,BABOON!!'

Lisa Simpson.
 
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Sure, the high quality of life in the 24th century almost guarantees conditions ripe for "overpopulation" to occur
Maybe the opposite, human psychology doesn't change in only a few centuries. I mean the part of our psychology that's chemically driven in our brains. Look at America and Europe today. In American without immigration the population growth would be static, given the water problems in a quarter of the country something many of us would like to see. In Europe without immigration, your population numbers would fall fast. The better things are the fewer babies get made, The worst things are more babies.

I can't find any canon source about Earth's population, for all we know it could be quite low, one or two billion. Or less. The few big cities we actually saw might be the only really large cities on the entire planet by the 24th century. With most of the people living in small villages like Picard's.
 
Sure, the high quality of life in the 24th century almost guarantees conditions ripe for "overpopulation" to occur
Maybe the opposite, human psychology doesn't change in only a few centuries. I mean the part of our psychology that's chemically driven in our brains. Look at America and Europe today. In American without immigration the population growth would be static, given the water problems in a quarter of the country something many of us would like to see. In Europe without immigration, your population numbers would fall fast. The better things are the fewer babies get made, The worst things are more babies.

I can't find any canon source about Earth's population, for all we know it could be quite low, one or two billion. Or less. The few big cities we actually saw might be the only really large cities on the entire planet by the 24th century. With most of the people living in small villages like Picard's.

Maybe people are so secure, in the 24thC, that they dobn't NEED to be mini-Genghis Khan's, and spawn one hundred thousand offspring?

Maybe they feel secure that they KNOW that the human race as a whole is going to survive, as well as their own genes? Maybe they exercise self control when they have sex, with Bio-control, as Vonda McCintyre said? Maybe they're different to us? Less selfish? But practical?
 
Sure, the high quality of life in the 24th century almost guarantees conditions ripe for "overpopulation" to occur
Maybe the opposite, human psychology doesn't change in only a few centuries. I mean the part of our psychology that's chemically driven in our brains. Look at America and Europe today. In American without immigration the population growth would be static, given the water problems in a quarter of the country something many of us would like to see. In Europe without immigration, your population numbers would fall fast. The better things are the fewer babies get made, The worst things are more babies.
That's wrong. Why do you think the human population of the world is now 6-7 times what it was 2 centuries ago, and continues to grow? It's not because poor people are having more sex. :rommie: You don't see the correlation with the medical advances, availability of medical care, better nutrition and sanitation? Population hasn't grown because people have been having more children - in fact, with the availability of good contraceptives, the opposite would be true - it is because infant mortality has gone down, far less children are dying, far less women are dying at childbirth, and human mortality rate in general has gone down.

The only thing that can keep the population from growing too fast is the decreasing birth rate due to the availability of contraceptives. But that would also mean a shift in the demographics, with the higher percentage of elderly people in the population - especially with the longer life expectancy in the 24th century. Also, the birth rates on Earth, or other planets would be very much influenced by cultural and social factors. Some people might prefer to have many children, other to have no more than one child. It's not like nobody will have more than one or two children if they are able to have a say in it. (And for other races, there might be other biological factors, but I am focusing on the Humans now.)
 
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Sure, the high quality of life in the 24th century almost guarantees conditions ripe for "overpopulation" to occur
Maybe the opposite, human psychology doesn't change in only a few centuries. I mean the part of our psychology that's chemically driven in our brains. Look at America and Europe today. In American without immigration the population growth would be static, given the water problems in a quarter of the country something many of us would like to see. In Europe without immigration, your population numbers would fall fast. The better things are the fewer babies get made, The worst things are more babies.
That's wrong. Why do you think the human population of the world is now 6-7 times what it was 2 centuries ago, and continues to grow? It's not because poor people are having more sex. :rommie: You don't see the correlation with the medical advances, availability of medical care, better nutrition and sanitation? Population hasn't grown because people have been having more children - in fact, with the availability of good contraceptives, the opposite would be true - but because infant mortality has gone down, far less children are dying, far less women are dying at childbirth, and human mortality rate in general has gone down.

The only thing that can keep the population from growing too fast is the decreasing birth rate due to the availability of contraceptives. But that would also mean a shift in the demographics, with the higher percentage of elderly people in the population - especially with the longer life expectancy in the 24th century. Also, the birth rates on Earth, or other planets would be very much influenced by cultural and social factors. Some people might prefer to have many children, other to have no more than one child. It's not like nobody will have more than one or two children if they are able to have a say in it. (And for other races, there might be other biological factors, but I am focusing on the Humans now.)

Maybe the reason people breed so much, now, is because they don't know there's going to be a tomorrow? Maybe in the 24thC, they will, and will not breed as much? Maybe they will all know they can contribute, and have their memes, as well as their genes, in the memepool and genepool?

See you in the 24thC!!??

________

You, Sir ,are a baboon. Baboon,Baboon,BABOON!!'

Lisa Simpson
 
It's not like nobody will have more than one or two children if they are able to have a say in it.

True, but apparently Earth-based human families tend to be single-child, for the most part.

Joseph Sisko had only one child with each of his wives, Ben with Sarah and a daughter with his second wife. If Sarah had not left, would there have been a second child? Who knows.

Ben Sisko himself did the same thing as his father - one son, Jake, with Jennifer, and a daughter with second wife Kasidy.

Julian Bashir was an only child.

Miles O'Brien had multiple siblings, and had two children with his wife Keiko. But though O'Brien was raised on Earth, his children were born and mostly raised off-planet.

We know Kathryn Janeway had a sister.

Chakotay had a sister, too, but he was born and raised on a colony world, so family demographics of colonists aren't applicable to Earth. Worf's adoptive parents, Sergei and Helena Rozhenko, had only one biological child, Nikolai. How long they lived on Gault, and whether Nikolai was born on Earth, clouds the matter, though.

Tom Paris and Harry Kim were, seemingly, only children, born on Earth. Will Riker was, too. Beverly Howard was an only child, and her son Wesley with Jack Crusher was an only child, too.

It seems families in the 24th century, on Earth, rarely have more than two children, and single-child families seem more common than multiple children families, if the characters' families are representative of the typical 24th century family.
 
They have an abundance of energy, because they have fusion. They have an abundance of things, because they have replicators.
This only follows if the replicators make stuff out of energy.

Lots of people think they do, just as lots of people think the transporters turn people into energy and then back. Both views are partly contradicted on-screen, and thoroughly contradicted in quasi-canon sources like the Technical Manuals.
Replicators can change the form of matter, reassembling it in new shapes and such, but they need matter to start with.
Replicators are capable of making some changes, probably including making new molecules out of their component atoms (by "beaming" the atoms into the right place in the molecule), but several chemicals have been defined as "too complex to replicate".
It is unclear whether replicators are capable of alchemy (say, making oxygen by merging enough hydrogen atoms together). They obviously can make some changes to the matter between de-materialization and re-materialization, but the limit of the changes they can make are not defined.

It is entirely possible that replicators cannot, for example, make amino acids: they must have protein in order to make things containing protein. If that is the case, a man with a fusion reactor and a replicator in the middle of a desert will starve, as the replicator cannot turn sand into food.
This would explain why we see bulk-freighters in Star Trek: stuff like grain and algae can be turned into other kinds of food by replicators, but planets will either need to grow enough food to support their population or import it.

Further, the TNG Tech manual says this about replicating food and objects:
Replication Versus Storage
The use of replicators dramatically reduces the requirements for carrying and storing both foodstuffs and spare parts. The limiting factor is the energy cost of molecular synthesis versus the cost of carrying an object onboard the ship. In the case of foodstuffs, the cost of maintaining a large volume of perishable supplies becomes prohibitive, especially when the cost of food preparation is included. Here, the cost of molecular synthesis is justified, especially when one considers the dramatic mass savings involved with extensive recycling of organic material.
On the other hand, certain types of commonly used spare parts and supplies are not economical for replication. In such cases, the items in question are used in sufficient quantity that it is more economical to store finished products than to spend the energy to carry raw materials and synthesize the finished product on demand.

So:
1) replicators cannot turn energy into matter, they merely change the form of existing matter. There are limits to how much change it can make, and more changes means the process uses more energy.
In order to minimize replicator power requirements, raw stock for food replicators is stored in the form of a sterilized organic particulate suspension that has been formulated to require the least quantum manipulation to replicate most finished foodstuffs.
and
2) Using the replicator to make things is specifically defined as expensive.
Our view of replicator use in the Federation is skewed because most of the people we see live on space stations and starships, where the benefits of the replicator outweigh its costs. The average Federation citizen probably uses a replicator far less than the average Starfleet officer, just as the average American citizen does not get most of their vitamin C from Tang.
 
Look at America and Europe today. In American without immigration the population growth would be static, given the water problems in a quarter of the country something many of us would like to see. In Europe without immigration, your population numbers would fall fast. The better things are the fewer babies get made, The worst things are more babies.
There does seem to be a pattern of western democracies hitting zero, or negative, population growth. More people decide not to have children, or to only have one.
Many regard this as a problem, and are trying to figure out its cause.

While there is a lot to be said for the idea of having only one child who will live twice as well as his parents (inheriting all of their property instead of dividing it with many siblings), people with children have a much more personal involvement with the future. They are more likely to start paying today for something that won't pay off until after they are dead, because they see it as being a gift to their children.

Often, when looking at something the government might spend money on, the choice isn't whether you will spend, but how much and when. (The choices are usually "some, now" or "more, later".) People without children are more likely to choose "more, later" because they believe that "later" will be after they are gone.
 
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