Some of the uniforms were pretty good (I even used one for my avatar) but yeah, the majority of them were pretty bad.
Improve Star Trek: The Motion Picture
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Wow, I can't agree with any of your three points.
At its farthest from Earth, Jupiter is about 3,220 light seconds away, or about 54 light minutes distance. At half light speed, it's 108 minutes away. 108 minutes = 1.8 hours. Ergo, if Jupiter were its maximum distance from Earth when the Enterprise launched, at half light speed the ship would get there in exactly the 1.8 hours Kirk cites, which is too on-the-nose to be an accident.
Which wouldn't improve the film, just satisfy a few fans.
Widely considered to be one of the film's strong suits. Sure, there are a few shots that aren't perfect, but that's true of virtually any vfx heavy show.
That presumes you know how fast impulse power is.Kirk's first Captain's log occurs after the ship flies by Jupiter and in it he says, "...1.8 hours from launch...", during which time the ship has been traveling warp .5.
At its farthest from Earth, Jupiter is about 3,220 light seconds away, or about 54 light minutes distance. At half light speed, it's 108 minutes away. 108 minutes = 1.8 hours. Ergo, if Jupiter were its maximum distance from Earth when the Enterprise launched, at half light speed the ship would get there in exactly the 1.8 hours Kirk cites, which is too on-the-nose to be an accident.
It's about humanity boldly going. It's note-perfect for the opening and the Enterprise. The rest of the score is mysterious and brooding and creepy, as benefits the danger they're facing.
On #1, granted that only fans are likely to comment on small details on the Enterprise. But if you were to redo the SFX, why not take the opportunity to fix a few things whilst modelling the Enterprise?
On #2, I hadn't considered the log. I've put my DVD away somewhere and can't find it to check! But if memory serves the scene goes like this:
1. Enterprise pulls away from Earth.
2. A view of the navigation console showing Jupiiter and its 4 main moons.
3. Enterprise approaching Jupiter.
4. Enterprise leaving Jupiter (viewscreen).
5. Kirk's log.
The scene change due to the music etc seemed to occur between 4 & 5. So to me it would feel better to change the Jupiter to the moon without changing the length of the scene.
1. Enterprise pulls away from Earth.
2. A view of the navigation console showing the moon.
3. Enterprise approaching moon.
4. Enterprise leaving moon - sweeps across screen with Earth vanishing behind limb of moon. Sense of being cut off from Earth and you're on your own.
5. Kirk's log.
On #3, I think it's a matter of interpretation. In the first half of the film I don't think the Enterprise is "boldly going". Instead it's going with some heavy baggage - two dead crew, strained relationships between Kirk, Bones and Decker, and an untried refitted starship. Then later you have a distant Spock. The end of the film is an entirely different matter - Earth saved, V'ger evolved rather than destroyed, happy reunited crew, rock solid starship. In that context, you can definately have the "boldly going" theme.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
I think Goldsmith's score is perfect; wouldn't change a thing.
If anything? I'd just cut all the 'fx' shots inside of the damn thing, and get to the end of the movie. Many complain about the coldness of the film, and especially spock..but that was the point of the movie's message right? Spock realizing that logic isn't eveything..
The movie is from another time...and so, like the TOS series, I keep it seperate from the other series. They all had the advantage of being connected to each other...not TOS or its movies..they were set apart from what would come down the line, except for aspects of 5 and 6..
Rob
If anything? I'd just cut all the 'fx' shots inside of the damn thing, and get to the end of the movie. Many complain about the coldness of the film, and especially spock..but that was the point of the movie's message right? Spock realizing that logic isn't eveything..
The movie is from another time...and so, like the TOS series, I keep it seperate from the other series. They all had the advantage of being connected to each other...not TOS or its movies..they were set apart from what would come down the line, except for aspects of 5 and 6..
Rob
I'm sure someone's got a better sci fi story out there involving alien machines and wars between them and such.
By the way, this was the only movie written by a bona fide sci fi writer. At least part of a story.
I'm going to share with you good fans a story That I think could be merged with this story called 'The Trilar Resistance' I wrote for Star Trek a long time ago about a team of aliens. Let's call them the Wan. Their leader tells Kirk that they are the only ones who can protect them from V'ger, which they describe as a weapon that destroyed their home world long ago. Every now and then this bright light appears aboard the Enterprise and they sit and form a circle and pray for it to leave and it does. The second alien in command finally finds reason to doubt their leader through McCoy's scans and after five hundred years of chasing this thing across the galaxy. When he finally turns on his leader during a prayer session, their leader is transformed back into their enemy's leader. He was an imposter. Then the ending is revealed. Take it for what it's worth.
Then the new Wan leader is joined with V'ger and eventually becomes Q.
By the way, this was the only movie written by a bona fide sci fi writer. At least part of a story.
I'm going to share with you good fans a story That I think could be merged with this story called 'The Trilar Resistance' I wrote for Star Trek a long time ago about a team of aliens. Let's call them the Wan. Their leader tells Kirk that they are the only ones who can protect them from V'ger, which they describe as a weapon that destroyed their home world long ago. Every now and then this bright light appears aboard the Enterprise and they sit and form a circle and pray for it to leave and it does. The second alien in command finally finds reason to doubt their leader through McCoy's scans and after five hundred years of chasing this thing across the galaxy. When he finally turns on his leader during a prayer session, their leader is transformed back into their enemy's leader. He was an imposter. Then the ending is revealed. Take it for what it's worth.
Then the new Wan leader is joined with V'ger and eventually becomes Q.
I still stand by this. But to make it work would require Decker being built up before butting heads with Kirk. Decker has to be shown to be at least capable even if in a different way than Kirk is capable. Then I think the tension would work just as it does in Run Silent, Run Deep.The best suggestion I've seen for this topic came from Warped9...
SOURCE (Thank you, search function)
This is exactly the sort of thing that TMP was missing, and it would have worked marvelously with the existing storyline.
I think it helps to understand the context of certain elements of the film. Namely the perceived lack of colour. Actually the interior of the ship is quite colourful. But be that as it may I can excuse how it may look because the ship was rushed to launch to intercept Vger. In regard to the uniforms I don't mind the command level design (I think it looks futuristic and light years better than the awful TWoK design), but the one piece jumpsuits just didn't look right. There also should have been more recognizable consistency in who wore what departmental colour.
The fact that the familiar characters seem off also works I think because they've been apart and affected by experiences since we last saw them. It therefore takes some time to get back into their groove with each other. That said a finessed bit of rewriting could have tidied up some of the script.
I like the TMP DE and I feel the film is now almost where it could have been. It just needed a bit more infusion of dramatic friction between characters.
I'd really like to read that memo people were talking about...
I very much enjoyed DS9Saga's post.
TMP was very, very strange. It clings to too many elements that were nessesary for Phase II - Decker, Ilia, Nogura... well, guess what, you're not going to be a TV show, a TV special, or a once a month TV-movie miniseries. You're a motion picture.
So no Decker, no Ilia, no Nogura. Or if you have Nogura, actually SHOW him in the film and introduce some conflict. Don't just talk about and around him. SHOW me something or cut it out.
That's actually an issue with TMP - it talks about, talks around, but doesn't show what's important. And then it shows you... lots of unimportant things (wormhole, transporter accidents, Bones not liking transporters or going back to work).
It still felt like a TV pilot that thinks next week it's going to be payoff something next week. It actually feels a bit like... TNG's pilot. Ahem. Tell me Riker and Troi's introduction wasn't JUST like the "that you left Delta IV, or that you didn't even punch me in the face?" scene.
Production design: More color. More color.
Makeup/wardrobe: I know they tried to hide the fact that the actors aged, but Nichelle looks totally dried up and frizzled. Least believeable of the bunch, I think. Put some pants on, put some regular shirts on. Add some color.
Special effects: Play them at 2x speed. All that time watching the ship move left to right could have been spent on some sort of... drama.
Oh - the biggest thing: WHAT'S THE MOVIE ABOUT? Is it about how we relate to the unknown? Is it about transition or change? Is it about being unhappy with 'the good life' once you get it (Spock in Kohlinar, Kirk with his promotion, Bones in family practice/retired?), is it about facing certain death at an introduer/unknown?
I can't understand why this story was supposed to launch the tv show or a movie. They already did it. The Changling. Doomsday Machine.
Favorite change someone suggested: Making Decker a woman. Woman captain. Perhaps an old flame of Kirk's or a rival from Academy. Whatever. Have her join "you're not going to take this away from me Kirk. I want this."
I very much enjoyed DS9Saga's post.
TMP was very, very strange. It clings to too many elements that were nessesary for Phase II - Decker, Ilia, Nogura... well, guess what, you're not going to be a TV show, a TV special, or a once a month TV-movie miniseries. You're a motion picture.
So no Decker, no Ilia, no Nogura. Or if you have Nogura, actually SHOW him in the film and introduce some conflict. Don't just talk about and around him. SHOW me something or cut it out.
That's actually an issue with TMP - it talks about, talks around, but doesn't show what's important. And then it shows you... lots of unimportant things (wormhole, transporter accidents, Bones not liking transporters or going back to work).
It still felt like a TV pilot that thinks next week it's going to be payoff something next week. It actually feels a bit like... TNG's pilot. Ahem. Tell me Riker and Troi's introduction wasn't JUST like the "that you left Delta IV, or that you didn't even punch me in the face?" scene.
Production design: More color. More color.
Makeup/wardrobe: I know they tried to hide the fact that the actors aged, but Nichelle looks totally dried up and frizzled. Least believeable of the bunch, I think. Put some pants on, put some regular shirts on. Add some color.
Special effects: Play them at 2x speed. All that time watching the ship move left to right could have been spent on some sort of... drama.
Oh - the biggest thing: WHAT'S THE MOVIE ABOUT? Is it about how we relate to the unknown? Is it about transition or change? Is it about being unhappy with 'the good life' once you get it (Spock in Kohlinar, Kirk with his promotion, Bones in family practice/retired?), is it about facing certain death at an introduer/unknown?
I can't understand why this story was supposed to launch the tv show or a movie. They already did it. The Changling. Doomsday Machine.
Favorite change someone suggested: Making Decker a woman. Woman captain. Perhaps an old flame of Kirk's or a rival from Academy. Whatever. Have her join "you're not going to take this away from me Kirk. I want this."
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Do you mean THIS? I never got that it was supposed to be Jupiter and its moons, but then I can't read the labels on any of the screen grabs I've seen.
Oddly enough, while checking this, I found a very strange and very small mismatch I'd never noticed before:
- In THIS shot there's a little dial thing to the lower left of the astrogator, and a little panel with what appear to be touch buttons to the lower right.
- But in THIS shot it's all reversed. Even the labels inside the astrogator have flopped left/right. It's like someone pulled out the artwork and put in back in backwards at some point.
Anyway, the one change I'd have made in that sequence is to throw out the shot of the viewer where the stars are moving (at sublight) and have the Moon flash past instead.
Actually this isn't a bad suggestion. It coulda worked.
I quite like the TMP uniforms but I think more logic and consistency would have helped. A modern take with modern materials might make them look more space-age, albeit no more comfortable for the actors. I wouldn't mind a crack at designing a more modern TMP uniform using STO, if I get round to subscribing.
Rand looked ok in a one-piece but Decker... yikes! And the little badges and epaulets were no decent indicator of department. I still struggle to tell the engineers from the scientist on the screen caps.
Got me again!
In the first screengrab, that console has three labels of format xx-yy-zz. I can make out a 11-22-44 and 7-8-81? Then the other label ends in "AR 7". As there were 4 labels I always believed they refered to Jupiter's 4 largest moons given the scene.
It looks to me like those two disparate pics of the astrogator flopped has one explanation... that "overhead" shot of kirk couldn't have been taken from up on high while still having the ceiling intact... from what I've heard, removing or flying the ceiling away would have been a major deal... so...
They shot it in a mirror placed above kirk's head... they did think enough to change the side that his starfleet patch was on, but if you take very close observation, the starfleet insignia is reversed as well...
They shot it in a mirror placed above kirk's head... they did think enough to change the side that his starfleet patch was on, but if you take very close observation, the starfleet insignia is reversed as well...
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
"Most incredibly, [Cinematographer Richard] Kline requested that the bridge sets be made permanent, that everything be nailed together so that the walls would be immobile. Explained Kline, 'I don't like to move walls; I would rather work in a closed set. There's something unnatural about moving walls, and I feel that when you start taking walls out, you lose some of the credibility. Even the actors feel like they are in a real location when all the walls are in place. A full set gives the entire picture realism.' Of course, such a decision limited the camera angles by which the bridge-set could be photographed. To combat this problem, Kline installed a monorail from the ceiling of the set from which a camera could be suspended and operated. The set was lit using over 50 HMI's." - Enterprise Incidents (May, 1984).
Heh. One truly does learn something new every day.
SLR
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
it wasn't really good Star Trek in my opinion it could have been better TMP.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
I think TWOK was the best of the original cast movies in my opinion
It needs more personal drama and tension.
The problem is the film dared to show the characters somewhat evolved from what they had been. And as fans we were (and are) hungry for what we were familiar with, and we don't get that until towards the end of the film. I'd say things are pretty much back to familiar sensibilities after Spock is recovered from his space walk. From the sickbay scene onward the characters seem to be back into their familiar groove. To that point I think this character evolution lends the story a measure of credibility rather than simply trying to pick up exactly where TOS left off. I find this satisfying in terms of story, but I can see how some fans might find it unsettling.
Nimoy's performance was quite impressive. He's really, really cold early on in the film. Maybe a scene where a strike force tries to infiltrate V'Ger, perhaps to try and rescue Ilia might have been more fun and less cerebral. It would also have detracted from their 2001 vibe though.
I think there's also a matter of timing. In 1977 Star Wars comes along and rather redefines big screen space adventure. It's energetic and moves along at a good clip. Now in 1979 TMP comes along and it's definately a more measured pace and it isn't as sprawling a film (visually) as SW. Now if their releases had been reversed and TMP had come first then TMP might have been cut some slack. But as it is I'm wondering if some in the audience hadn't been hoping/expecting something more like SW's energy in TMP. And it's been that way ever since.
Put another way--even if TMP's missteps were fixed I wonder if you could even get such a film done today. It would have to have a quicker pace (doable) and likely have to have more energy in terms of action.
TMP is something of a mystery story: what is this thing and what does it want? In a broad way it reminds me of "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "The Changeling" and "The Doomsday Machine" and other TOS episodes in exploring "strange new life." Those episodes work better partly because of the shorter running time to get the whole story told. That kind of pacing would have helped TMP, but then you would need more story, more character interplay and drama, to run it out to feature film length. And all it would have cost would have been some extra rewriting because you had all the cast you'd need and the fundamentals already in place.
Imagine something of a showdown where the "new human" raised Decker actually challenges the seasoned Kirk on how best to pursue the mission. He might even be threatening to try relieving him of command because of what Decker thinks is "unwarranted actions." Ilia's death could have even been the trigger to set Decker off.
When I look at TMP I see hints of extra scenes that could have been written and added. McCoy actually trying to get at Spock and learn what's been going on with the Vulcan these past years. Kirk opening up and sharing some of what he's experienced and felt since the Enterprise returned from her 5-year voyage. Decker feeling out other personnel to see if he might actually have a chance of relieving Kirk. There are other possibilities.
Of course I like to think all these things actually happened offscreen.
Put another way--even if TMP's missteps were fixed I wonder if you could even get such a film done today. It would have to have a quicker pace (doable) and likely have to have more energy in terms of action.
TMP is something of a mystery story: what is this thing and what does it want? In a broad way it reminds me of "The Corbomite Maneuver" and "The Changeling" and "The Doomsday Machine" and other TOS episodes in exploring "strange new life." Those episodes work better partly because of the shorter running time to get the whole story told. That kind of pacing would have helped TMP, but then you would need more story, more character interplay and drama, to run it out to feature film length. And all it would have cost would have been some extra rewriting because you had all the cast you'd need and the fundamentals already in place.
Imagine something of a showdown where the "new human" raised Decker actually challenges the seasoned Kirk on how best to pursue the mission. He might even be threatening to try relieving him of command because of what Decker thinks is "unwarranted actions." Ilia's death could have even been the trigger to set Decker off.
When I look at TMP I see hints of extra scenes that could have been written and added. McCoy actually trying to get at Spock and learn what's been going on with the Vulcan these past years. Kirk opening up and sharing some of what he's experienced and felt since the Enterprise returned from her 5-year voyage. Decker feeling out other personnel to see if he might actually have a chance of relieving Kirk. There are other possibilities.
Of course I like to think all these things actually happened offscreen.
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