A Niner Watches Babylon 5 (NO spoilers, please)

[Can]

Season 1 was introduction. Season 2 is warming up season. Plots are thickening , universe is getting more detailed and characters/events are developing and changing...Yes it had its clunkers but no sci-fi series are exception on that regard I guess. Now TGB Season 3 is my favorite , I hope you like it.

And I recommend you to find Babylon 5 TV made movies like B5 Thirdspace , B5 In the Beginning , B5 The River of Souls...They are quite fun when watched together in Season 4 and Season 5 episodes.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

I'm beginning to form a connection to the universe, so I guess that makes me a fan. It's really all depending on season 3 at this point, and I have a good feeling that it's not going to disappoint.

To quote a certain song sung by Captain Sisko and Vic Fontaine: "The best is yet to come."

As you may have noticed, there's a certain disagreement among fans as to whether the third or the fourth season was Babylon 5's best season.

Personally, I'd say the show's high streak lasted from "Messages from Earth" (3x08) until "Endgame" (4x20). Babylon 5 was never as good before and was never as good again (although I'd say that Season 5 is still roughly on par with Season 2).

 

[Reverend]

I know we all have our opinions on such things, but let's refrain from trying to colour TGB's expectations and just wait for him to start in on Season 3.

 

[Myasishchev]

Oh god no. I'd actually expected the Vorlons never to appear to the audience; it's more mystical and numinous that way.

It's a question that didn't need to be answered, really.

Yeah it didn't need answering, except for the tiny part where it's integral to the story Joe wanted to tell.

Yes, because I knew that when I was watching the series.

And as far as the broader picture goes, the who and why of the Vorlons matter far more than their apperance, I think, and that is important only by way of illustrating the who and why. Couldn't they just have appeared as various religious figures? I read what JMS wrote on the occasion and he stressed that the Vorlons were shown as famous disciples in the faiths of the alien races, and that's not such a bad idea.

Anyway, enough of that. Season three is the best year of Babylon 5, I'm going to go ahead and stake my claim to this stand now (though season four has a very excellent patch as well.)

I don't think this counts as a spoiler of any sort, but better safe than sorry:

Spoiler: not really

Later, albeit in a different context, they use something I would consider a much better "design" for Kosh, specifically in a bit where he contacts Sheridan in a dream. I wonder if that appearance would have been more effective than the "angel" in the season 2 finale. It probably would've cost less and looked less silly, and precluded its silliest appearance, at the end of "War Without End," which has some serious problems already.

 

[stonester1]

I thought all of Kosh's appearances made perfect sense, considering the context of each scene. The angelic appearance...the second one, and the final making perfect sense, considering the appearance of the Vorlon ships.

 

[Kegg]

Making sense and being silly are not mutually exclusive concepts. Does it make sense that the Vorlons appear as angels? Sure, to a point, and as observed it doesn't come out of left field either. Does this make it less silly? Absolutely not.

I don't think this counts as a spoiler of any sort, but better safe than sorry:

Spoiler: not really

Later, albeit in a different context, they use something I would consider a much better "design" for Kosh, specifically in a bit where he contacts Sheridan in a dream. I wonder if that appearance would have been more effective than the "angel" in the season 2 finale. It probably would've cost less and looked less silly, and precluded its silliest appearance, at the end of "War Without End," which has some serious problems already.

Spoiler: this is a spoiler though, major

Kosh's appearances outside of his suit in the third season work much better overall, I'd agree. Not just his appearance to Sheridan, but also his revelation to G'Kar. In each case, he appears as the father of the person he's talking to - though in G'Kar's case he soon transfers to being a religious figure. They're two of Kosh's best scenes in the show, which certainly helps.

 

[Neroon]

Making sense and being silly are not mutually exclusive concepts. Does it make sense that the Vorlons appear as angels? Sure, to a point, and as observed it doesn't come out of left field either. Does this make it less silly? Absolutely not.

All depending upon whom you ask, as evidenced by the replies here. Remember that 3-edged sword....

Everyone, this particular sub-topic is getting more than a little repetitive. How about we move on to something else?

 

[TheGodBen]

How about this?


Matters of Honour (***)

Something felt odd about this episode and I'm not entirely sure what it was. Season premiers often feels different from what comes before, especially premiers like this where a new character and set-piece are introduced, but this felt even odder than normal.

The Ranger stuff... I'm not sure what these guys are really about. Some order set up by the Minbari (but including other races) which are preparing for the coming of Shadows? How so? What are they doing at their training camps? Why do the Shadows see them as a big enough threat to want to wipe out one of their camps? The Minbari government have a new prototype ship which they are willing to hand over to to them? Did Ron Moore also steal his look from Marcus? So many questions, so few answers, and just when the episode was about to give answers (as to what the Shadows really are) the episode ends. Now even Dr Franklin knows more about this stuff than me, this is an intolerable situation!

The stuff about Scott Bakula faking a generic African accent so that the aliens would say "Oh, exotic! Here's everything I know about the Shadow ship" was okay, the best part being Londo talking about his dream. Londo also had some good scenes involving Mordin as they discussed splitting the galaxy between them and going their separate ways. It's a bit like a divorce, but one involving the ultimate evil and a guy with six... Oh sorry, I just received a phone call. What was I talking about again? Ah, never mind.

The revelation that the Psi Corps and certain elements of the Earth government are somehow in league with the Shadows... it didn't bother me at first, but the more I think about it the more disappointed I am with it. I liked the idea that the Earth government (and the Psi Corps) were letting greed, corruption and incompetence lead them to their doom, the fact that they're in on the whole doom thing isn't as interesting for me. I guess it will depend on just how much they are in on it and why, but that's a question for another day.

Oh, this new theme song seems to be the famous one that I've always associated with the show. I like it.

Scott Bakula: 36

 

[DWF]

As you learned in The Coming Of Shadows it's Sinclair who's in charge of the Rangers. And for right now the only races involved in the Rangers are humans and Minbari.

 

[chrisspringob]

So many questions, so few answers, and just when the episode was about to give answers (as to what the Shadows really are) the episode ends. Now even Dr Franklin knows more about this stuff than me, this is an intolerable situation!

Delenn was presumably just repeating the same stuff she told Sheridan about the Shadows in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum". She starts saying "There are beings in the universe billions of years older than any of our races......" This is exactly the same way she began the story in ItSoZ. The stuff she explained in that ep about the Shadows is all the audience knows at this point and all the human characters like Sheridan, Ivanova, etc. know at this point. Which is, the Shadows are a really old race that was dormant and has now come back and is covertly mucking about in the affairs of the younger races, but is doing so in a largely discreet manner.

Don't worry. You'll get more detail than that eventually.

 

[Sykonee]

S1 Godben: The one thing that sticks out about [Signs & Portents] is that the Shadows didn't approach the Earth representative, at least not on screen, so it seems as if the Shadows could never view humanity as a potential ally.

Here & Now Godben: The revelation that the Psi Corps and certain elements of the Earth government are somehow in league with the Shadows...

Welp, now you know the reason for the lack of a meeting with Earth way back when.

Incidentally, did you just neglect to mention or simply missed a continuity Easter Egg in Long, Twilight Struggle?

 

[Kegg]

The Ranger stuff... I'm not sure what these guys are really about.

This is just me, but when I first heard of the Rangers I immediately thought of Aragorn and the Rangers in Lord of the Rings.

Oh, this new theme song seems to be the famous one that I've always associated with the show. I like it.

This is definitely the show's best theme. Heck it's the one sampled for the DS9 fan trailer.

 

[Reverend]

The revelation that the Psi Corps and certain elements of the Earth government are somehow in league with the Shadows... it didn't bother me at first, but the more I think about it the more disappointed I am with it. I liked the idea that the Earth government (and the Psi Corps) were letting greed, corruption and incompetence lead them to their doom, the fact that they're in on the whole doom thing isn't as interesting for me. I guess it will depend on just how much they are in on it and why, but that's a question for another day.

Oh don't worry they're still letting greed, corruption, incompetence and indeed fear motivate them (Psi Corps especially) and you'll see later on down the line more about the extent of their involvement.

 

[TheGodBen]

Welp, now you know the reason for the lack of a meeting with Earth way back when.

Ooh, I hadn't picked up on that. And to think that back then I thought Mordin didn't visit a human representative because humans were some sort of force for good, how silly of me.

Incidentally, did you just neglect to mention or simply missed a continuity Easter Egg in Long, Twilight Struggle?

Que?

 

[Can]

Welp, now you know the reason for the lack of a meeting with Earth way back when.

Ooh, I hadn't picked up on that. And to think that back then I thought Mordin didn't visit a human representative because humans were some sort of force for good, how silly of me.

Individuals are good or bad in B5. Not organizations or goverments. They only take care of their own interests.

 

[Reverend]

This is just me, but when I first heard of the Rangers I immediately thought of Aragorn and the Rangers in Lord of the Rings.

It's not just you.

 

[Sean_McCormick]

[...]

Incidentally, did you just neglect to mention or simply missed a continuity Easter Egg in Long, Twilight Struggle?

Que?

Where do they destroy the shadow vessel?

 

[Reverend]

^I think he means 'Confessions and Lamentations', not 'The Long Twilight Struggle'.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think he meant that "Matters of Honour" references the events of "Confessions and Lamentations"; the Shadow ship was destroyed at the Markab system's jumpgate. Sheridan points out that this jumpgate is expendable because the Markabs aren't using it anymore, having been excused from intergalactic trade and travel for reasons of being extinct.

As for "The Long Twilight Struggle", there is a continuity easter egg there, I think. Didn't Draal call out a certain name in that episode?

 

[Forbin]

^Yes, but I think his pronunciation was off, so I'm not sure which one of them he was calling.