Colonization in the UFP

[T'Girl]

A non-member world's colony trying to join the UFP would, I think, be rejected out of prudence.

Perhaps I should have said "former" colony, but I see your point. Accepting such a petition for membership could easily lead to miss understandings.

I could see a wealthy organization like the Catholic Church sponsoring a colony, or assisting in the finance as a partner. As a person of faith it seems to me that a colony group that wasn't sponsored by a chuch would, once estabished, request the presents of say a mission or a church primate to help organize their community. Having at least one Priest (Rabbi, Imam, Guru) in the groups "first wave" might be a standard part of a colonial charter. If a group was looking to escape from religion this person would be omitted.

"The Catholic Church in the Age of the Federation"

I could find this where?

 

[Penta]

Ooops, I should have mentioned - PM me for the link. I originally posted it to SCN about a year+ ago, over on their "Creative Writing" forum.

 

[Penta]

I could see a wealthy organization like the Catholic Church sponsoring a colony, or assisting in the finance as a partner. As a person of faith it seems to me that a colony group that wasn't sponsored by a chuch would, once estabished, request the presents of say a mission or a church primate to help organize their community. Having at least one Priest (Rabbi, Imam, Guru) in the groups "first wave" might be a standard part of a colonial charter. If a group was looking to escape from religion this person would be omitted.

It seems to me logical. Especially if, as I do, you see colony groups as being overwhelmingly mono-cultural, with diversity coming in later colony waves.

 

[Cheapjack]

A non-member world's colony trying to join the UFP would, I think, be rejected out of prudence.

Perhaps I should have said "former" colony, but I see your point. Accepting such a petition for membership could easily lead to miss understandings.

I could see a wealthy organization like the Catholic Church sponsoring a colony, or assisting in the finance as a partner. As a person of faith it seems to me that a colony group that wasn't sponsored by a chuch would, once estabished, request the presents of say a mission or a church primate to help organize their community. Having at least one Priest (Rabbi, Imam, Guru) in the groups "first wave" might be a standard part of a colonial charter. If a group was looking to escape from religion this person would be omitted.

"The Catholic Church in the Age of the Federation"

I could find this where?

I thought that Gene Roddenberry's universe was largely an atheist one. God forbid that a religious sect should own a colony.

 

[T'Girl]

There are some references to religion in Star Trek, Roddenberry himself, I believe, was an atheist from statements in interviews. Picard was atheistic, Kirk was theistic. Spock's family was polytheistic, Tuvok's family went to temple. I don't think a church would OWN a colony, but also the Federation doesn't seem the kind of government to openly suppress religious practice, although some Trek fans think that there may be a subtle negative from Earth's government, I personally never picked up on it from the shows.

The Federation might definitely have a opinion on a Federation colony forming a theocratic state government, certainly if it was on a planetary scale. They might have less say in the matter if it was a member colony, I believe the Federation would have no opinion if Humans built churches in their communities and Vulcans built temples in theirs.

 

[Cheapjack]

There are some references to religion in Star Trek, Roddenberry himself, I believe, was an atheist from statements in interviews. Picard was atheistic, Kirk was theistic. Spock's family was polytheistic, Tuvok's family went to temple. I don't think a church would OWN a colony, but also the Federation doesn't seem the kind of government to openly suppress religious practice, although some Trek fans think that there may be a subtle negative from Earth's government, I personally never picked up on it from the shows.

The Federation might definitely have a opinion on a Federation colony forming a theocratic state government, certainly if it was on a planetary scale. They might have less say in the matter if it was a member colony, I believe the Federation would have no opinion if Humans built churches in their communities and Vulcans built temples in theirs.

I am thinking of Devils Due, to name but one. I think people would be free to make their own choice, but brainwashing and overawing people with tricks and fear would be out of the window. I thought Roddenbery was a buddhist.

 

[SpyOne]

Spy, you are starting to give yourself away as a troll.

Adding a new personal insult, rather than apologizing for the previous ones.

I have provided numerous evidence that the US has in the past and in the present, family planning,(not anti-AIDS) programs and that they are paid for by the US government, not charity and are not sold.

None that apply to the relevant timeframe, though.

http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/pop/techareas/repositioning/index.html

This is about as good as it gets. Does it say:'Cheapjack is right and Spyone is wrong'? No, but just about.

Not on the front page it doesn't, and I can't find anything on that site talking about work they might have done pre-1982. If you point me to it, I'll read it and respond with my opinion, but I doubt it will say what you say it does based on your track record with previous links.

You want this dropped? Stop insulting me and apologize for your insults. Admitting that you might have been wrong would also be a nice gesture, but I'll meet you halfway and agree to stop posting about it if you do the same, so long as you stop calling me names and apologize.
If you insist on posting irrelevant links (or links that are only tangentially relevant) and claiming they prove you are right, I reserve the right to point out when you are mistaken.

 

[Cheapjack]

Spy, you are starting to give yourself away as a troll.

Adding a new personal insult, rather than apologizing for the previous ones.

I have provided numerous evidence that the US has in the past and in the present, family planning,(not anti-AIDS) programs and that they are paid for by the US government, not charity and are not sold.

None that apply to the relevant timeframe, though.

http://www.usaid.gov/our_work/global_health/pop/techareas/repositioning/index.html

This is about as good as it gets. Does it say:'Cheapjack is right and Spyone is wrong'? No, but just about.

Not on the front page it doesn't, and I can't find anything on that site talking about work they might have done pre-1982. If you point me to it, I'll read it and respond with my opinion, but I doubt it will say what you say it does based on your track record with previous links.

You want this dropped? Stop insulting me and apologize for your insults. Admitting that you might have been wrong would also be a nice gesture, but I'll meet you halfway and agree to stop posting about it if you do the same, so long as you stop calling me names and apologize.
If you insist on posting irrelevant links (or links that are only tangentially relevant) and claiming they prove you are right, I reserve the right to point out when you are mistaken.

Are you still here?

The site is USAID. Aid is free. US refers to the USA.

America.

Family planning is population control, not AIDS prevention.

The site is explicit in that, as are all the others. Other sites have stated that they have been doing it for years. Your pedantry is starting to look troll-like.

Apology, please.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Uh, everybody, WTF does Africa have to do with the point of the thread? (I mean, really, it looks like something better suited for TNZ.)

Exactly.

This thread has become a train wreck, despite the efforts of a few to keep it Trek-centered.

My apologies to the OP, but I'm going to close this now and review some of the posts to determine if warnings will be issued.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Ok. This thread began with an interesting premise, and it took a few detours, as will often happen when people try to make a comparison between a Trek future and historical precedent. I have no problems with that as long as the discussion stays Trek-centered and is handled in a reasonable, adult manner, without crossing the line into making things personal.

This is where things turned personal:

I think some people here are watching the wrong show, and I dread to think what ST would be turned into if they got hold of it.

A difference of opinion is fine - handling it by attacking your fellow posters is not.

Spy, you are starting to give yourself away as a troll.

Are you still here?

The site is USAID. Aid is free. US refers to the USA.

America.

Family planning is population control, not AIDS prevention.

The site is explicit in that, as are all the others. Other sites have stated that they have been doing it for years. Your pedantry is starting to look troll-like.

Calling other posters trolls (outside of TNZ) has long been grounds for a warning here at Trek BBS, and has earned Cheapjack an infraction for trolling. Any relevant comments may be directed via PM.

What? You are still reading Cheapjack's posts? And all the responses? I'm just waiting for the thread to resume after everyone finishes feeding the trolls.

What? Did you say something? ^.^

The same rule applies here. USS Renegade also earns a trolling infraction. Comments to PM.

Also - to everyone involved - if you feel that you are being flamed or trolled within a thread - use the "Notify Moderator" feature. Do not try to pay the offender back in kind. Let the mods handle it.