Moore's Law and Star Trek propulsion
- Thread starter NightCastle
- Start date
It's good to know that we're still able to have a healthy, yet competitive debate on the laws of physics(both quantum and regular), and how they affect the propulsion of starships.
I have used every possible route of explanation that I can come up with, but apparently that's not enough to convince you of my point. There are always going to be people like you who are stubborn, no matter what logic is used to persuade them otherwise.
There appear to be two distinct discussions going on. The first:
is different from how the TNG Warp scale is sillier than the TOS:
One is about the mechanics of FTL physics - one is about a literary device and its effectivness in telling a story.
While the two are vaguely related, trying to use the same arguments for both is only going to lead to tears.
IMO
is different from how the TNG Warp scale is sillier than the TOS:
One is about the mechanics of FTL physics - one is about a literary device and its effectivness in telling a story.
While the two are vaguely related, trying to use the same arguments for both is only going to lead to tears.
IMO
I used the argument of physics to try to explain to "Sojourner" how the new warp scale is more accurate, due to the advances that engineers and scientists in the Trek universe have made in the understanding of how warp fields bend space-time. It's silly to think that in over 100 years since Kirk's time, warp-capable civilizations would not have made any advances in warp field mechanics, and how they affect space-time. Do we still use the same scales and standards of measurement, that we used 100 years ago?
You mean feet, inches, miles per hour, that sort of thing?
Today, we are able to build faster and more powerful engines than a century ago due to an increased engineering knowledge. However, that greater understanding does not affect how many miles are covered in an hour when travelling a certain velocity.
(if Warp Factors are indeed are measure of velocity - there's a deal of proof that they're power output levels, instead! But that just muddies the water further for this discussion)
Today, we are able to build faster and more powerful engines than a century ago due to an increased engineering knowledge. However, that greater understanding does not affect how many miles are covered in an hour when travelling a certain velocity.
(if Warp Factors are indeed are measure of velocity - there's a deal of proof that they're power output levels, instead! But that just muddies the water further for this discussion)
Yes. Even the metric system existed TWO centuries ago.
You appear to be one of those people who are very vague and subtle who fails to see why one might not understand his explainations/reasoning.
OK, I'll ask this question again, even though you never answer it:
Why is it more accurate? Give us something real other than "because" and "time has passed"
Alright, I reread the thread, and you never actually explained anything. You didn't even describe the physics of it. You just simply mention the existence of physics and using the word "logic".
I haven't described the actual math of why the new warp scale is more accurate, because I dont have the mathematical knowledge and skills necessary to do so. I just have enough to understand the basics of it. This doesn't mean that I don't know what I'm talking about.
What would please you, oh, all-knowing and powerful master?
)
Isn't the whole warp speed debate thrown by the recent discovery of dark matter and dark energy? I think variable warp speeds based on the amount of dark matter is feasible so these high speed 'warp corridors' simply become regions of space with less dark matter to hinder the space warp.
The basis of my argument has been that the higher warp speeds seen in TOS, seem to be unrealistic(in-universe) for a starship to reach. The reason for that is because just like any piece of technology, there is only so much mechanical stress that the warp engine and other propulsion-related pieces can endure, before they stop functioning or blow up. The warp scale used in TNG, Voyager, and DS9 sets the limit at warp 10 because it's more realistic, and people tend to feel more a part of the show, if they can relate to it.
But WHY is it more realistic? Why is a limit of 10 more realistic then a limit of infinity? (and TNG's warp 10 is a limit at infinity).
PD - scale and speed are two entirely separate concepts. You're arguing that travelling at 62.14mph puts less strain on a car than travelling at 100km/h, and so it is more logical to travel at 62.14mph.
When 62.14mph=100km/h.
Same with warp scale - I can say I'm travelling at warp 9 or warp Fnarg, but if they mean the same thing, they're the same thing. Rescaling makes no difference to the forces a ship endures - the number humans and so forth associate with a speed doesn't change the speed itself.
i.e., If warp 10 is infinity on one scale, then a ship travelling at warp 13 on a different scale, where infinity is given by a larger number, is slower than the ship travelling at warp 10 despite the apparently larger Warp Factor - just as water at 32deg F is no warmer than water at 0deg C, nor colder than water at 273.15K.
When 62.14mph=100km/h.
Same with warp scale - I can say I'm travelling at warp 9 or warp Fnarg, but if they mean the same thing, they're the same thing. Rescaling makes no difference to the forces a ship endures - the number humans and so forth associate with a speed doesn't change the speed itself.
i.e., If warp 10 is infinity on one scale, then a ship travelling at warp 13 on a different scale, where infinity is given by a larger number, is slower than the ship travelling at warp 10 despite the apparently larger Warp Factor - just as water at 32deg F is no warmer than water at 0deg C, nor colder than water at 273.15K.
It's more realistic because by having a warp scale that increases without any limit(well, not any limit that we can quantify), the writers and others who were in charge of directing the episodes from TNG, Voyager, and DS9, probably thought that viewers(if they kept the warp scale used in TOS) wouldn't watch their shows because it was too outside the realm of possibility. Setting the limit to warp 10 seems to be more in the realm of possibility.
How many examples of how your argument is wrong do we have to give you before you respond to them?
