ST09 critics, why don't you like it?

[I-Am-Zim]

Just for the record, that thread wasn't shut down. It's still alive and kicking. I just posted a short line there just to make sure. clicky

Unless, of course, you're talking about a different thread. If so, I shall stand corrected.

 

[Warped9]

That, is in fact, not what happened at all. The moderating team, in its infinite wisdom, shut the sister thread to this one down after deciding the barbs (if one can even call them that) were a little too mean spirited for tea-time Tuesday. The critics did not stay out of that thread which was eventually what got it shut down. The real question is what's the difference here? More people were participating and were being meaner about it than the other thread? Is that it?

Either way I don't think its fair to blame fans for defending this film when critics defended their criticism in the thread where they weren't supposed to do that. This has gone for 26 pages because the Moderating team allowed it to go for 26 pages not because there's more criticism for the movie than there is love for it and not because fans of the movie can't keep their mouths shut like the critics can.

It isn't just the fans who seem hellbent on getting an argument started and it isn't just the fans who disrespected the integrity and intent of your threads. This one just went on long enough for you to notice.

-Withers-​

This is patent bullshit. That thread us still open and if you go there you won't find one dissenting post. And I went through the whole thread (it was that short) and confirmed that it wasn't pestered by critics.

ST09 fans, why did you like it? http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=116337

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Just for the record, that thread wasn't shut down. It's still alive and kicking. I just posted a short line there just to make sure. clicky

It was entirely possible, and simple, for you to check whether it was open or not without actually posting - clearly you understand exactly how the board works. So you posted there for another reason.

 

[ProwlAlpha]

Anyways, The Haynes Technical Manual had to be locked because of the haters, and the discussion about Shatner's Trial Run topic was overrun with film haters.

In other words, to be critical of the movie, it would be nice if Nero was fleshed out more, we see bits and pieces. Thats the one thing Trek movies truly lacked was a good villian. No, Khan was just as 2D as Nero was.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

...and I just wish other fans had been able to practice IDIC and allow us our say (to each other) instead of invading the thread and continuing to oppress us wherever we are found. ...

Oy.
Get over youself will you? 'Oppress' you?
Damn!

"Come see the violence inherent in the system! I'm bein' oppressed!"

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0[/yt]

Don't take it all so bloody seriously. It's a movie.

 

[stonester1]

I like the new Ent design, but didn't think one was necessary. Some of the interiors, especially Engineering, DO need something of a makeover by the next film.

I thought the film was a little too frenetic in it's pacing and hope the next one has moments of reflection, is a bit more cerebral at points.

Goofy stuff like Captain out of the Academy, could do without.

More grimmness, gravity in the moment they decided to execute Nero. So if a moment like that comes up in the next film, don't play it for joyful fun adventure.

Those were my issues, but still loved the movie.

 

[Withers]

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=116320

This was the original twin of this thread. You made the other thread as an addendum; an after thought. It's essentially "List what you like about the movie" which is boring and has no potential to last longer than a page or two because most people would be just inclined to make a thread about the thing they liked if they liked it so much they would post it in a list.


Your team of hardcore TOS'ers are the ones who turned the original twin of this one hostile and they did it in less than a page. That thread got shut down where as this one, every bit as full of ribbing, got to go on for twenty plus pages so I honestly don't understand where this high and mighty 'it's all so unfair' attitude comes from.

-Withers-​

 

[Warped9]

Withers, the thread that was closed down asked fans why they thought others didn't like the film, not the thread asking fans why they liked it. The one that was closed down was not the twin or the opposite of this one. I should know, I initiated all three.

The critics let fans have their place to praise the film as was intended.

Yes, the other one was closed and part of that is my doing because I couldn't stomach someone's comments and attitude in there.

 

[Shazam!]

http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=116320

This was the original twin of this thread. You made the other thread as an addendum; an after thought. It's essentially "List what you like about the movie" which is boring and has no potential to last longer than a page or two because most people would be just inclined to make a thread about the thing they liked if they liked it so much they would post it in a list.

*facepalm*

 

[Withers]

I just linked you to it so I was pretty clear on which thread got shut down and what it was about. The point I was making is that you explicitly asked critics to stay out of that one too and they didn't. They didn't for even two full pages. They wouldn't have if it had been allowed to go on if that trend was any form of evidence. You didn't seem to have a problem with it then but you do here. Why?

The one that was closed down was not the twin or the opposite of this one.

Really? Because in the one that was closed you said...

My idea with these twin threads is to try to air both sides and hopefully clear some unfair generalizations away.

Whereas the one you just linked me to (the list what you like thread) you said

Because it's been asked for here's the place to state why this film works for you.

One of these things actually isn't like the others. Oh c'mon Shazam... who let you in here?


-Withers-​

 

[Warped9]

^^ I'll reread the thread and then comment.

 

[Shaw]

It sure would make your job easier if that were true, wouldn't it? Unfortunately some of us actually are reasonable, measured people, who just want to talk about it-

Of course in reality you wouldn't be included in any group described as reasonable and/or measured.

That, is in fact, not what happened at all. The moderating team, in its infinite wisdom, shut the sister thread to this one down after deciding the barbs (if one can even call them that) were a little too mean spirited for tea-time Tuesday. The critics did not stay out of that thread which was eventually what got it shut down.

Well, you got that one thread shut down, so blaming anyone else is rather pointless. M'Sharak asked you to tone things down a bit, you came back at him, the thread was closed. It was all you in that case.

And no matter how much you want to label me as being part of the critics, I have always been one of the people who liked the film.

 

[Warped9]

First, I was mistaken. I was not involved in getting that thread closed. It was another thread which escapes me at the moment.

However, I did reread the thread and here's what I found:

Some critics did go into that thread, but what they said hardly qualifies as baiting or challenging UNTIL...

Withers essentially began importing quotes from other threads to prove his point that he thinks a lot of critics of the film are predisposed to hate it because they're got rose coloured glasses on in regards to TOS and likely wouldn't give anything new a fair shake and hold it to unreasonable standards. He then went on to challenging the moderator who was trying to cool things down in a thread Withers should have felt at home in. The only major challenges made were when some critics took issue with unfair qualifying of their motives and intent when criticizing the film in other threads.

In fairness Withers was stating why he thought critics didn't like the film. However, the way he went about it wasn't overlooked by some critics and so they chose to challenge him on it.

 

[Withers]

The only major challenges made were when some critics took issue with unfair qualifying of their motives and intent when criticizing the film.

And what is the difference between critics doing that there and fans doing that here?

-Withers-​

 

[Warped9]

You're right. I'm not a moderator, but I have made remarks pertaining to people on both sides to try not qualifying another person's reasons for liking or disliking the film.

To say you don't like it and then state why is totally fair. To say you don't think it's real Star Trek is fair. To say that anyone who likes the film has questionable tastes is starting to get personal. You might think it, but I wouldn't advise actually saying it if you want a fair hearing.

Mind you in the past I have actually said such things myself, but I've tried to frame my arguments to be more on point and let my reasoning speak for itself. Any further thoughts I choose to leave for another venue.

However, if someone qualifies my reasoning as a flowery excuse for a predisposition to dislike something then I, too, might be quite tempted to challenge them on it.

 

[Withers]

To say that anyone who likes the film has questionable tastes is starting to get personal.

Starting to get personal... you mean like, oh, say-

in reality you wouldn't be included in any group described as reasonable and/or measured.

?

You and I have gone round the bend on more than one Trek issue and can still manage to be civil to one another at the end of it. You're a "critic" and I'm a "fan" so it is possible. The dispute here shouldn't be about the people who like the film and people who don't like it- the dispute should be about the people who take it to the extreme of lambasting the other side in personal ways and that is not exclusive to one side of Trek XI or the other. Ultimately that's what I was getting at.

-Withers-​

 

[Warped9]

^^ Okay. Why don't everyone just chill, grab something to drink, and then get back to basics. If you don't like it then cool, tell us why but please try to keep it on point. If you do like it then fine, but please try to keep it on point.

If I seem a little bent on trying to keep things more civil here I have a selfish reason: I don't want anyone to accuse me of coming into this forum (one I'm usually inclined to stay out of) just to stir up trouble, as I've been charged with in the past.

 

[Shaw]

Starting to get personal... you mean like, oh, say-

in reality you wouldn't be included in any group described as reasonable and/or measured.

It was nothing personal, I was just noting the obvious hypocrisy of your statement... both statements actually. After all, how can you present yourself as reasonable and measured after this exchange with M'Sharak...

Even with the eye rolling smiley of doom you'll need to prove you can read before you'll get more of a response out of me than that.

In my experience, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Shaw's reading comprehension and I would recommend that, in the future, you avoid making any such implication toward him or toward any other poster. It's a cheap shot and a poor debating tactic, and I want to see none of it here -- no more personal potshots.

Lightening up actually isn't such a bad idea, either. Everything doesn't have to be adversarial.

In my experience

Which is what exactly? That post? He barbed me. I barbed him. In the future I would recommend acting like a poster until you're required as a moderator. We're all adults here and that little icon exists for a reason. Interjecting into a conversation (for the third time) to remind me I need to act like a lobotomized eunic is hardly avoiding an adversarial response- its begging for one.

My suggestion (even though I know you won't take it) is to lighten up and enjoy the company.

I do. Just not the elderly who can't be bothered to read (and educate themselves) but insist on spewing their "opinions." You want me to lighten up? How's this; I'm laughing at the idea of your contented smirk behind the screen.

-Withers-​

To date I have not said anything disparaging about you or mischaracterized you. And for good reason, no one need sink that low to get you upset. I'm under the impression that feeling persecuted is your natural state, so I need not do much more than address you for you to feel slighted.

You could attempt to prove me wrong about that, but you'd have to work pretty hard to over come some of your previous displays.





Oh, to both Withers and Warped9... I'm not a critic (or a fan for that matter), I enjoyed the movie and that is about all there is to my feelings on it. Don't expect me to take sides just because you guys have.

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

Lack a sense of humor?

There's certainly no "humor" in this thread, that's for sure.

I'm having a good time.

"I like this thread--it's exciting!"

 

[TOS Purist]

"I like this thread--it's exciting!"

Ugh, Comic Relief Scotty (now with 100% more Little Green Alien Sidekick!)...another thing I hated about that movie.

I liked how TOS was able to inject humor in the episodes without making them outright comedies. Some characters had humorous moments, yes (which made them seem realistically human and relatable), but none of them were pegged as "The Comic Relief," as if that's all they were good for. All of them had serious moments (which was most of the time) and it was as buyable as the humorous moments.

The new characters are either one or the other.