I wasn't under the impression that you were defending his actions (and we've had a few people who were actually trying to do that), just analyze the character and his motivations.
Dukat: Not so bad once you get to know him?
- Thread starter Withers
- Start date
How did this happen? How did we come to the point where someone feels he has to APOLOGIZE for trying to understand and make sense of the behavior and motivations of a fictional character, so much that he repeats 3 or 4 times "I am not trying to excuse his behavior", as if expecting to be attacked for thinking things through rather than just screaming "he is eeevil! eevil! And that's why he does eeevvil things!" OMG
Anyway, your analysis is very good. You even manage to make sense of the Pah-wraiths thing... almost.
Just because someone DOES think he's evil and that there's no excuse doesn't mean they didn't think. I know I thought damn hard--and I had to, since in order to write his "good twin," I had to understand how he went wrong.
Who said anything about excuses? And you should be able to see the difference between "evil" and "eeevil".How did this happen? How did we come to the point where someone feels he has to APOLOGIZE for trying to understand and make sense of the behavior and motivations of a fictional character, so much that he repeats 3 or 4 times "I am not trying to excuse his behavior", as if expecting to be attacked for thinking things through rather than just screaming "he is eeevil! eevil! And that's why he does eeevvil things!" OMG
Anyway, your analysis is very good. You even manage to make sense of the Pah-wraiths thing... almost.
Just because someone DOES think he's evil and that there's no excuse doesn't mean they didn't think. I know I thought damn hard--and I had to, since in order to write his "good twin," I had to understand how he went wrong.
evil = real people or realistic characters doing horrible things out of some believable motivation (whatever it is)
eeevil = characters who do evil stuff because... well, because they're evil (MU HA HA HA) and the plot needs them to do evil stuff
Alright, you know the guy that is constantly saying Kes was the star of Voyager? Or that Wesley wasn't annoying on The Next Generation? Or that The Grand Nagus wasn't obnoxious and annoying on DS9? And they say so repetitively not because its true or necessarily supported by evidence but because they personally like that character? Well, I don't want to come off as that guy in regard to Dukat's actions (I'm not trying to excuse them because I like the actor and the character so much essentially.)
Thanks.Occasionally I try.
-Withers-
I agree that your analysis is very good - and I also understand why you feel the need to not be "that guy." Because there are people who really want Dukat to be...not merely a wonderful character, which he most certainly is, but a wonderful man, which he most certainly is not. This is absolutely inexplicable to me, not only because it ignores nearly everything that Dukat did, but because...why would anybody want to take such a wonderfully complicated, multifaceted and fascinating bad guy and turn him into a boring old romantic hero? Bleah, I say, bleah! But people do. Not you, though, Withers. You're not that guy either.
I hated what "the writers that were" had done to Dukat. He was one of the best character ever written for Star Trek and then after the 4th season the lack of talent decided to make him into a whiny, whimpy crusader, and then a crazed sociopath. It's ridiculous making him this way because the series first three seasons expressed multiple facets of human nature and character, since this series couldn't simply leave a problem they had to face them and find intelligent solutions to handle their differences. Because as we all know, a 50 year old station wouldn't handle the stress of a full scale war but it did based on terrible writing. So the more the writing gets worse the more plausible it is to have Sisko becoming a jesus figure SO WE HAVE TO HAVE A SATAN and the retarded inclusion of Par-Wraiths. Make Winn an intolerable liar even though it was established Winn had strong beliefs that blinded her judgement. She believed she was doing the right thing not as an act of evil, but later she betrays the Prophets and also fucking Satan himself uh I mean Dukat. And finally have Dukat, a man who had 7 sons and a proud warrior who suffered a great depression in Cardassia over come this and became a Horatio Hownblower for his people and later ended the occupation because of their alliance with the Federation turned into a man who forgot had sons and squirms over to change sides when the Cardassian Union was over thrown, race mix with Bajorans and spawned a bastard child which he has a creepy affection for and later turns into a one dimensional looney tune. All this is because of shitty writing and stuff thrown all over the wall. DS9's 4th through the 7th season is an embarrassment to Star Trek and it's gallant of great writing.
Garak was a kind guy with a lot of evil buried deep inside him. Dukat was just the opposite
Dukat had a heart of gold: cold and metallic.
Withers
Captain
Well, the free wielding use of epitaphs, profanity and run on sentences aside, I think that Dukat's character traveled so far from the beginning of the series to the conclusion speaks to just how much time and effort went into his creation. Granted, a lot of it had to do with the actor (who was amazing), I think when Trek does bad writing Trek does inattentive writing and that isn't what Dukat was. You might not have appreciated the direction he ultimately took. Certainly a lot of people were unhappy that he went over the edge in Waltz but I find it difficult to look at Dukat's character and say "bad writing." If anything I think he represents some of Trek's finest work.
-Withers-
Garak was a kind guy with a lot of evil buried deep inside him. Dukat was just the opposite
Dukat had a heart of gold: cold and metallic.
Dukat and Garak both, when you get down to it, were evil. Dukat buried whatever goodness was left in him...and Garak was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
in "By Inferno's Light", Dukat condone a plan to trigger a nova of Bajoran sun, which would have genocided the whole Bajoran species (except the offworlders). So, then, planning a murder of this magnitude (BILLIONS of victims!) Dukat was pure evil, andhe stayed so untill the end of DS9.
This is a bit sad, before, he was a more complex character.
This is a bit sad, before, he was a more complex character.
