Will we ever have a real Starfleet???

[Zakk]

I was just wondering, when it comes down to it, all fantasy and fiction aside, do you think we will ever have ships going out to explore the galaxy? An authority (like Starfleet) with a rank system and code of operations that organises and controls all space activities.

The way I see it, there are three main hurdles to achieving this;

1. Constructing and outfitting spacecraft capable of being self sufficient (producing their own air, water, food etc)

2. Conceiving 'warp drive' or a similar form of travelling at speeds comparable to or exceeding the speed of light.

3. Actually wanting to invest in such a pursuit.

I think we are capable of the first one; we have the technology necessary to sustain a single environment without outside support; solar power to generate electricity, or people turbines could be used. Such electricity could power most of the ships systems, principally temperature control; making the environment habitable. Plants (hydroponics sort of setup) could act as indoor greenhouses - generating oxygen for the crew of a ship and efficient water recycling supplemented with combining the plant generated oxygen with hydrogen (from somewhere = a naturally generated source or otherwise) to create sufficient water. Alongside plants, vegetables could be grown, hell in a large enough ship we could even grow livestock from cells and then eat them for meat, once matured.............Oh and then I suppose we have to tackle artificial gravity - if there are large crews.

The warp drive........well that seems unlikely for the foreseeable future. And let’s face it; without it we aint getting anywhere......unless we really go for the generational ship sort of thing....

The third point I think might actually be the biggest barrier. At the moment, world governments really aren’t that bothered with investing in space operations; they are usually hugely expensive and everyone knows we are years from being able to do anything worthwhile. I think it might actually take up to the point where we have completely exhausted primary world resources and nearly killed each other off over them, before we are forced to look to other worlds for what we need. The time will definitely come........although it will likely be millennia.....

What are your thoughts guys?

 

[RegFan]

1. I don't see any reason why that wouldn't be possible. Nature is like that.

2. I've heard that warp drive (it's specifically warp drive and not FTL travel) indeed is possible but would require so much energy that it would be impossible in practice. I think that information is in Wikipedia. I don't know about other possible methods of FTL travel though.

3. Technology gets cheaper as time goes by. We might get resources from Moon or something like that.

So, my answer to your question is this: There's a big possibility that there will be some kind of space fleet in the future but it would be a lot different from Starfleet. It wouldn't be a military organisation in any way, there would be a different organisation for that (but it is possible that no one sees a need for a military space fleet). It wouldn't have FTL travel, at least for a few centuries. It might not even have human officers (or perhaps it has both ships with only robots/androids and ships with both humans and robots/androids).

 

[The Wormhole]

I do not doubt at some point we will have a space-based military organization. But it will be very different from Starfleet as depicted in Star Trek.

 

[C.E. Evans]

Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if we see multiple starfleets--privately-owned or corporate space agencies that are contracted out to provide a wide variety of services.

I don't think there will be warp-capable starships (unless a future technology can make FTL drive not only possible but also relatively cheap), but I can see impulse vessels and the construction of multiple space stations both within and outside the Sol System by the mid 24th-Century. Such ships could possibly make trips from Earth to Pluto in a matter of days...

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I do not doubt at some point we will have a space-based military organization. But it will be very different from Starfleet as depicted in Star Trek.

I don't see why that would have to be the case. The naval form of organization that Starfleet uses, is really the most efficient one, for that specific purpose. Ships that fly in space are still ships...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

No.

 

[The Wormhole]

I do not doubt at some point we will have a space-based military organization. But it will be very different from Starfleet as depicted in Star Trek.

I don't see why that would have to be the case. The naval form of organization that Starfleet uses, is really the most efficient one, for that specific purpose. Ships that fly in space are still ships...

I meant such an organization would be strictly military with very little scientific or exploration interests. Think of something similar to the Colonial Fleet from BSG.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Oh. Yeah, I do agree on that.

 

[USS KG5]

I think we are capable of the first one; we have the technology necessary to sustain a single environment without outside support;

Actually, we don't. All attempts to do this so far have worked OK except for when, well, they don't. At this point without outside help everyone inside would have died.

For a technology to sustain life to be usable it needs to be damn near 100% reliable, there are some other slight issues here as well...

solar power to generate electricity, or people turbines could be used. Such electricity could power most of the ships systems, principally temperature control; making the environment habitable.

What we would actually need is nuclear fusion most likely, you would need some really really special form of any existing technology to power a starship.

Plants (hydroponics sort of setup) could act as indoor greenhouses - generating oxygen for the crew of a ship and efficient water recycling supplemented with combining the plant generated oxygen with hydrogen (from somewhere = a naturally generated source or otherwise) to create sufficient water. Alongside plants, vegetables could be grown,

Sci-fi does feature a lot of big greenhouses on ships, I guess it is sort of logical, but does not make nearly as much sense as keeping enough food in dehydrated or pill form for the trip, or sending everyone to sleep.

hell in a large enough ship we could even grow livestock from cells and then eat them for meat, once matured.........

It would probably be easier and more efficient to create artificial meat from proteins rather than to actually rear cows or pigs on a space ship, also calorie-wise meat is extremely inefficient, odds are we will have to give up eating it on Earth at some point.

....Oh and then I suppose we have to tackle artificial gravity - if there are large crews.

Well there's always something!

The warp drive........well that seems unlikely for the foreseeable future. And let’s face it; without it we aint getting anywhere......unless we really go for the generational ship sort of thing....

None of the technologies required really exist yet, think of all the new tech we would need to build something the size of the Enterprise in space and make it work, it boggles the mind.

The third point I think might actually be the biggest barrier. At the moment, world governments really aren’t that bothered with investing in space operations;

Well as half the world's nations are bankrupt it would be a little flip wouldn't it?

I think it might actually take up to the point where we have completely exhausted primary world resources and nearly killed each other off over them, before we are forced to look to other worlds for what we need. The time will definitely come........although it will likely be millennia.....

We. Will. Never. Have. To. Look. To. Other. Worlds. For. What. We. NEED.

We need, in order, shelter, water, food. That's it. Rampant consumerism makes us believe we genuinely need to consume energy and resources at our current astonishing rate in order to live, but that only has a century of life in it at most.

 

[T'Girl]

There may be something similar to Starfleet in the form of an "International Space Service" (or some other name) that will handle exploration, scientific, logistical, and emergency rescue missions, initially inside the solar system. But I doubt we'll see armed spaceships and personnel unless law enforcement is needed too...

There will be one combined or two separate services. One very much like the U.S. Coast Guard, another dealing with police matters, wherever people have gone in the past eventual some form of law enforcement has come into existence. As long as governments or collections of nations are the only players little will happen in this direction. . When private groups, businesses and individuals start going into the solar system in large numbers, they will need a guard-like organization.The same will hold true when (if) we begin to travel to the stars.

1) A closed environment life support system is a serious tech problem, but if we learn to use the resources in space it might not have to be 100% effective.

2) Arthur C. Clarke said a FTL propulsion device won't be inverted by anyone who believes it to be impossible.

3) There needs to be a sound reason. Hate to come off crass, but humanity will travel into space and to the star when we figure out how to make money there. We'll get to live on orbital colonies and settlements on Mars when a business builds them and begins to sell lots and houses.

 

[Valin]

We had the technology for interplanetary ships in the late 1950's. Look up the Orion Project which lost out to the Apollo program for info about the technology.

I agree that private corporations are the best bet for space exploration in the near future; you cannot rely on governments to really care about space exploration in the present environment (look how the current US administration has cut NASA's funding--space exploration is not the type of "change" the administration wants).

As for the future--who knows.

 

[Green Shirt]

No.

Yes.

 

[USS KG5]

We had the technology for interplanetary ships in the late 1950's. Look up the Orion Project which lost out to the Apollo program for info about the technology.

We didn't even have the technology for the Apollo program until the Apollo program, a lot of it was developed specifically for it.

We do not have a fraction of the technology necessary for manned interplanetary travel with even as much as a fair chance of getting the crew back alive.

 

[Valin]

We had the technology for interplanetary ships in the late 1950's. Look up the Orion Project which lost out to the Apollo program for info about the technology.

We didn't even have the technology for the Apollo program until the Apollo program, a lot of it was developed specifically for it.

We do not have a fraction of the technology necessary for manned interplanetary travel with even as much as a fair chance of getting the crew back alive.

Have you checked out the Orion project I mentioned? This is the one Dyson was involved in, not the current NASA Orion project.

 

[Sibo191]

We had the technology for interplanetary ships in the late 1950's. Look up the Orion Project which lost out to the Apollo program for info about the technology.

We didn't even have the technology for the Apollo program until the Apollo program, a lot of it was developed specifically for it.

We do not have a fraction of the technology necessary for manned interplanetary travel with even as much as a fair chance of getting the crew back alive.

Have you checked out the Orion project I mentioned? This is the one Dyson was involved in, not the current NASA Orion project.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion)

here is the link.

to answer the previous question, I guess it would depend on the political landscape in the future.

 

[Quantum_Q]

I was just wondering, when it comes down to it, all fantasy and fiction aside, do you think we will ever have ships going out to explore the galaxy? An authority (like Starfleet) with a rank system and code of operations that organises and controls all space activities.

The way I see it, there are three main hurdles to achieving this;

1. Constructing and outfitting spacecraft capable of being self sufficient (producing their own air, water, food etc)

2. Conceiving 'warp drive' or a similar form of travelling at speeds comparable to or exceeding the speed of light.

3. Actually wanting to invest in such a pursuit.

it will likely be millennia.....

First, I don't see us being capable of doing this for a good amount of time. The costs involved in researching the technology, and then actually building something the size of the Enterprise is just too astronomical.

Second, conceiving warp drive is one thing, assuming something like the Alcubierre equation is valid but, making the necessary energy to power this craft for warp speed is a whole new problem. As of now, even the process of harvesting antimatter is incredibly huge. Then you have the problem of solving for artificial gravity, and shields to protect the ship and astronauts from radiation and space debri. I simply do not see how our current economy can generate that kind of revenue to invest into a space project of this magnitude without some kind of profitable immediate return. We have too many social and political issues that currently need to be addressed. Hell, we don't even have enough money for social security, and many American's can't even afford the more immediate needs like health insurance, let alone doing something like this. So for 3, there is no foreseeable desire to invest in such an ambitious project.

For the meantime then, we can travel beyond the stars using our imagination, Star Trek novels, and shows!

 

[USS KG5]

We had the technology for interplanetary ships in the late 1950's. Look up the Orion Project which lost out to the Apollo program for info about the technology.

We didn't even have the technology for the Apollo program until the Apollo program, a lot of it was developed specifically for it.

We do not have a fraction of the technology necessary for manned interplanetary travel with even as much as a fair chance of getting the crew back alive.

Have you checked out the Orion project I mentioned? This is the one Dyson was involved in, not the current NASA Orion project.

Oh yeah I checked it out, but that isn't a TECHNOLOGY it is simply an idea, there are lots of those. Also it explains very little about how you would use this for manned interplanetary travel in a sustained way, how you would keep crews alive.

Now I'm not saying you couldn't develop all these ideas into usable technology as the project would progress, but there also comes into question things like materials used, contruction in space, how to keep a crew alive, whether other ideas are more worthy of the money and time to develop them, navigation, supply of oxygen and foodstuffs, replenishment of fuel (or nukes), I could go on.

You can easily say "this idea had a lot fo merit" to the Orion concept mentioned and heck, hard to debate that, but having the technology to do something means having the ability to practically contruct and operate something, and we do not have that.

Now there are hundreds of scientists now thinking things up, and maybe one day we will go to Mars for example with a large ship with rotating sections, ion engines, hydroponics bays producing food, and a holodeck full of porn to stop the astronauts going made/ using up the whole tissue supply.

But we don't have any of the technologies for this YET, we just have ideas, that is not the same thing. Unless someone actually built a prototype nuke powered spaceship and kept it very quiet.