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David Goyer to write new "Superman" movie

I very much preferred Byrne's handling of the Clark/Superman dynamic - Clark is the real personality, Superman the disguise - to previous versions, and the fact that with it came a more well-rounded and believable treatment of Clark's personality. An obviously physically imposing and attractive man, no one - least of all Lois - suspected Clark of being Superman simply because Supes was never dumb enough to suggest to anyone that he lived most of his life pretending to be someone else under cover of a "secret identity." :lol:
 
"Ball cap" sounds like a fetish device.

Only if you really get turned on by sports headwear.


I favor bringing Routh back, but I don't think it's necessary to use any of John Williams' old Superman music in the next film. Why not have a whole new score for the film, including a new theme for the opening credits?

I agree. That's another thing I regretted about Bryan Singer copying what had gone before rather than creating something new. Sure, Williams' Superman theme is one of his best works, but it's just one in a long line of Superman themes, each of which has followed the basic pattern set down by Sammy Timberg in the Fleischer shorts and Leon Klatzkin in the George Reeves series, but each of which has added something new and individual to the roster of Superman motifs. I wanted to hear John Ottman come up with an original contribution to the subgenre of Superman themes rather than just replaying Williams' theme. (And the way he used Williams' theme was poor, not developing or varying it or fitting it to the action but just cutting right to the stock fanfare every time Superman did anything remotely heroic, like he just had it cued up on CD and hit "Play" over and over. The lack of variation grew quickly tedious.)
 
I favor bringing Routh back, but I don't think it's necessary to use any of John Williams' old Superman music in the next film. Why not have a whole new score for the film, including a new theme for the opening credits? Now excuse me while I run for cover.

William's Theme is Superman. It's as tied to the character in the movies as the Bond theme is tied to that character. It has to be used.

If nothing else from the Donner 'verse, at the very least they have to use the Williams theme.
 
Hmmm. I could see it.

Yes! If not Jon Hamm for Captain America, than Jon Hamm for Superman OR evil corporate tycoon, Lex Luthor but with a better ball cap. ;)


http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/f26c4046b0/lex-luthor-bailout-with-jon-hamm

"Ball cap" sounds like a fetish device.

I think you mean bald cap. In that it's a cap to make one look bald. ;)


haha woops typo. but you guys knew what i meant. but yeah bald cap. Thank you VERY MUCH for pointing that out.
 
I very much preferred Byrne's handling of the Clark/Superman dynamic - Clark is the real personality, Superman the disguise - to previous versions, and the fact that with it came a more well-rounded and believable treatment of Clark's personality. An obviously physically imposing and attractive man, no one - least of all Lois - suspected Clark of being Superman simply because Supes was never dumb enough to suggest to anyone that he lived most of his life pretending to be someone else under cover of a "secret identity." :lol:

I think Byrne's take could be an interesting jumping off point, but I hope it's not the be-all end-all approach the new movie takes. It falls apart for me, when both Superman and Clark are highly visible public figures who have almost exactly the same friends, and the only thing he does is either put on or take off a pair of glasses. :lol:

Visuals in a comic can 'cheat' it and minimize it and use other conventions to get a 'difference' across, but I hope the movie takes a much more nuanced approach--and no, I'm not calling for the silliness of the 50s or 60s: I wouldn't mind a new take on the dichotomy/dynamic between Clark and Superman. On another board, I read and interesting idea along these lines: Clark deals with real life issues and the foibles we all have, and is the real person and the public personality. Superman, though, is not a public figure at all: he shows up, does whatever needs to be done and leaves with a minimum of interaction with the public. When Superman does interact with the public, it's more with the demeanor of a soldier or policeman: calm, cool, and on point. If he's scared, or emotional about something he doesn't show it as Superman, he shows it as Clark. Clark is 'relatable' and Superman is inspirational. Something like that could be a jumpig off point for a new take.

What I don't want to see is a simplistic notion that just because the general public doesn't see Superman as having another identity, that his closest friends (and enemies) as both Clark and Superman don't notice that it's just a pair of glasses. I think there has to be some kind of element of appearance change, posture change, vocal change, and yes, a difference in Clark and Superman's personalities---as Christopher Reeve said, right on the money, either he's a terrific actor or all of his close friends are idiots. It doesn't have to be slapstick, though.

My preference, though, is for the original dynamic set up by Siegel and Shuster from day one: if only they knew who I really was behind this suit and glasses. It's a universal feeling that Siegel and Shuster tapped into and is far more enduring in its elemental form than say, Clark is the football jock who dates the head cheerleader, lives a storybook life, achieves the top of his professional field, marries an extremely hot co-worker who loves him for who he really is, has a swanky apartment given to him by Bruce Wayne--oh, and by the way, he's also Superman and loved by most of the world. Yeah, that's relatable :lol:

I think there is a lot more universal, mythic quality in the original dynamic: Brandon Routh did a credible job of toning down the slapstick that I don't think even old-schoolers are arguing for at this point. I think there's room for a new interpretation, and as long as they don't take the simplistic approach that there is no difference between Clark and Superman, and that no one around him ever notices it just because, I think TPTB will be fine.
 
I would love to see Brandon Routh return as Clark and Superman. While I wasn't blown away by his performance as Superman I thought he nailed Clark...and I much prefer Clark as the dominate personality. I always like to look at it in this way. Kal-El is his heritage and a legacy of where he came from. Clark Kent though is who he is because this is the person who was raised by humans and taught morals and ethics and taught to be a good person in a good home. Superman if one wants to argue is a compromise of both of these halves of his heritages both human and Kryptonian but ultimately it's a facade and not his dominate personality. I don't like the Donner films interpretation of this as being Superman is the dominate personality or Lois accepting and falling in love with Superman and seemingly ignore Clark as she seems to do. The comics Lois fell in love with Superman and after learning his secret learned to love Clark Kent. This is what I prefer. This isn't Batman where Bruce Wayne is the mask and Batman is the real personality.
 
I am impartial to all of this, but I will say that I really enjoyed Christopher Reeve's performance and interpretation of Clark Kent/Superman. Despite his Clark Kent being the obvious facade, his portrayal was never overly gimmicky or trite. He managed to make his Clark Kent almost like a child, and gave him this child-like sense of wonder. I'm not sure how well that would translate to modern times (and by extension I think Brandon Routh was able to achieve a replication of that but much more toned down), but for some reason I just enjoy Clark Kent not as the buffoon, but as the guy who was always a little quirky and sheepish. You know, one of those people who weren't all "there"... and Reeve pulled that off magnificently.

Yes, it was a "performance", but I like the distinction of three identities: the Clark on the farm, the one he only shares with certain people i.e. Martha Kent, the Clark as the public persona, and then Superman, the last son of Krypton. I think in Reeve and Routh's performances Superman wasn't the dominate personality, but more like a personification of everything he was an individual sought himself to be. In Reeve's films, whenever he was Superman, I think he was the most genuine, because he was doing what he was meant to do: help people. It also ties into the themes of Superman: The Movie, but then again, I can gush about that movie for years.

With Christopher Nolan spearheading this new iteration of the character, it'll be interesting to see the distinction between personalities. The article describes Nolan's role as "a hands-on producer", and I think it'll be interesting to see whether or not Nolan applies his psychological analysis to Superman. I think he's a complex enough character to deserve such an introspective, analytical treatment.
 
I will also add one last thing about the two persona problem. There is a great line from both the graphic novel and novelization of Kingdom Come where I believe Wonder Woman is talking to Superman inside the Fortress of Solitude while he's tending the holographic farm and they have a discussion to which I'm going to paraphrase the line where Clark mentions that he misses Clark Kent. He's spent the last ten years burring that personality and idenity out of grief for the loss of Lois which I think says a lot about what Clark thinks about himself. He even acknowledges that Clark is his human anchor.
 
I favor bringing Routh back, but I don't think it's necessary to use any of John Williams' old Superman music in the next film. Why not have a whole new score for the film, including a new theme for the opening credits? Now excuse me while I run for cover.

William's Theme is Superman. It's as tied to the character in the movies as the Bond theme is tied to that character. It has to be used.

If nothing else from the Donner 'verse, at the very least they have to use the Williams theme.

I agree and the Bond comparison was exactly the one I was going to use.
 
I don't think they will cast Routh for the simple that reason that to those not "in the know" (ie - most of America), a Superman movie starring Routh will seem like a sequel to Superman Returns. That's clearly not the association they want to go with.

I don't know that they will. Because he was an unknown before hand and has had such a low profile since, people will just think 'that's Superman' and take it from there. They won't think 'That's Brandon Routh', the way that they would have remembered Pierce Brosnan as Bond or Michael Keaton as Batman. Especially if there's a different Lois , Lex etc (which there will be).

Besides, by the time this movie comes out, I suspect that the general public will have forgotten about Richard and Jason White and the other plot or setting points unique to SR.

Apologies for the double post btw.
 
As much as I'm a huge fan of the John Williams theme for "Superman The Movie" and agree that it is the definitive theme for the character I would be intrigued to hear someone do a different take. Much like Michael Giacchino did for the Star Trek reboot it's not as iconic as the original series theme song but still was decent. Also while there isn't really a theme for the Nolan Batman films like Danny Elfman's classic theme from "Batman" there is that underlying music that plays during the credits for each film...I can't recall the name of the tracks now. John Ottman did a great job of honoring John Williams theme and I think the Superman Returns complete score is wonderful.
 
Anyone who thinks Ottman didn't add variety or expound upon the Williams' Superman motif needs to listen to his score again. Williams' theme is used to varying degree. Where Ottman really shows off his research is in the plentiful incorporations of theme and rhythm fragments. Pieces of the march, whether it's the chopping strings below or the octave-flying brass above pop up everywhere throughout Superman Returns, sometimes in full glory but usually in more interesting fragmented form. Rearrangements of the title theme are top notch, from the first life-saving moments of "Rough Flight" to the triumphant finale burst in "Fly Away."

Ottman also developed several new motifs for Superman Returns, including a "theme of discovery" which was implemented to underscore the emotional elements of the Clark Kent character. Ottman's interpretation of the "Kent Family Theme" is perhaps the most intriguing on the album, offering a jubilant, choral performance in "Memories" and merging the theme with the primary new one and the love theme in "I Wanted You to Know," a fantastic touch of maturity for both the character and Ottman.

Ottman also removed the bumbling theme for Otis, which was a stand-in for Luthor, and instead created a percussive, threatening theme in its place. Superman Returns was a success for Ottman in every regard, and should serve as a fine example of how to intelligently and successfully score a sequel or remake.
 
William's Theme is Superman. It's as tied to the character in the movies as the Bond theme is tied to that character. It has to be used.

The problem with that analogy is that there's only ever been one Bond theme, used from the very beginning. Williams' theme was not the first Superman theme; it was a pastiche of the two most famous previous Superman themes, Sammy Timberg's and Leon Klatzkin's. They were the composers who truly defined what a Superman theme sounded like, and Williams followed their lead and elaborated on it. His theme is part of a grand tradition of Superman themes, all similar yet all fresh and distinct, and he shares that tradition with other composers such as Ron Jones, Kevin Kiner, Jay Gruska, Shirley Walker, and Louis Febre, who have created their own distinctive and worthwhile Superman themes. And it's grossly unfair to those composers and their fine work to treat Williams' theme as the only one that matters. His is one of the best, sure, but it's far from the only one.
 
^ There were other Bond themes used in the original telemovie of Casino Royale and the Woody Allen version, as well as Never Say Never Again. The Monty Norman Bond theme has been radically altered throughout the official Bond canon and only appears at the end of Daniel Craig's Casino Royale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_James_Bond_Theme#Use_in_the_James_Bond_films

No-one wishes to disrespect the other themes (I can actually hum the version from Lois and Clark and I like the one in the FLeischer cartoons) but the fact remains that the Williams theme is far and away the best known one. I'd say that when most people hear it they think of Superman and vice-versa. I just don't think the others have that recognition factor. I know I'd miss it if they didn't use some part of it during a Superman movie, even if that movie has absolutely no connection to the others.
 
I very much preferred Byrne's handling of the Clark/Superman dynamic - Clark is the real personality, Superman the disguise - to previous versions, and the fact that with it came a more well-rounded and believable treatment of Clark's personality. An obviously physically imposing and attractive man, no one - least of all Lois - suspected Clark of being Superman simply because Supes was never dumb enough to suggest to anyone that he lived most of his life pretending to be someone else under cover of a "secret identity." :lol:

That's exactly how I feel. Byrne's take on Superman is what got me reading Superman in the first place.

William's Theme is Superman. It's as tied to the character in the movies as the Bond theme is tied to that character. It has to be used.

I would disagree. The Williams theme worked in the 70s but I found hearing it in the 2006 movie too out of place. I'd like to hear a new theme.

Superman, though, is not a public figure at all: he shows up, does whatever needs to be done and leaves with a minimum of interaction with the public. When Superman does interact with the public, it's more with the demeanor of a soldier or policeman: calm, cool, and on point. If he's scared, or emotional about something he doesn't show it as Superman, he shows it as Clark.

I like this take on it.

The comics Lois fell in love with Superman and after learning his secret learned to love Clark Kent. This is what I prefer.

Maybe there have been some changes since I last read Superman but from what I remember Lois ended up falling in love and saying yes to Clark's marriage proposal before he revealed he was Superman to her. Action Comics #662

Personally, I think it says more about Lois's character if she falls in Love with Clark rather than Superman.
 
Just looked at some pics of Joh Hamm and he does have the right look. Sadly I think he's a bit too old for the part now.
 
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