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The peace treaty

James Wright

Commodore
Commodore
What were the terms(speculation of course) of the peace treaty ending the war against the Dominion and it's allies?
Were there any limitation placed on the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant?
Do the shpe shifters need an army and fleet? After all the shape shifters live on on planet in the great link, the Federation, Klingon & Romulan Empire's could establish a squadron to safe guard the planet.

James
 
I don't think think any gamma quadrant stipulations would have realistic or productive. The Dominion still is a huge powerful empire in its native region of space.

Reparations are meaningless to the moneyless Federation. I have no idea what terms the Romulans or Klingons wanted.

I would say the peace treaty banished the Dominion from the alpha quadrant and forbade military ships from using the wormhole.
 
The exact terms were never stated on screen.

Presumably though, it seemed that the Dominion were never allowed again in the Alpha Quadrant, the female Changeling was to be tried for her war crimes, and all Jem Hadar ships had to leave the Alpha Quadrant immediately.

I don't think the Dominion would have ever agreed to having no fleet. The purpose of the Dominion was to protect the Founders themselves, since the Founders wanted to control solids and control others out of a desire not to be harmed by solids. They bred the Jem Hadar and got the Vorta to manage them for this purpose.
 
What were the terms(speculation of course) of the peace treaty ending the war against the Dominion and it's allies?
Were there any limitation placed on the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant?
Do the shpe shifters need an army and fleet? After all the shape shifters live on on planet in the great link, the Federation, Klingon & Romulan Empire's could establish a squadron to safe guard the planet.

James

I like to believe it was an unconditional surrender on the part of the Dominion (likely), Cardies (definitely), and Breen (harder to justify).

The fate of the Cardassian Union is obvious. The Klingons and Romulans no doubt took territory directly, and I doubt the Federation would have permitted anything but a Starfleet occupation and a Federation-clone government on Cardassia Prime following the war. I would expect full Federation membership within about three decades. Even if there weren't overt motives to occupy the CU, they'd wind up having to out of necessity since the CU has been completely economically and politically shattered. It's also likely the Feds would be nice to them, even if the Cardies did turn coat primarily because they were losing.

As for the Dominion, I think the previous posters are forgetting that the Federation and friends really had the Dominion by the balls--a total victory over the Alpha Quadrant assets of the Dominion and total control over the release of the changeling plague cure to the Gamma Quadrant, thanks to our friends the Prophets and a starship parked in front of the wormhole to prevent Odo from going to the GQ unless permitted. I imagine they demanded that the Dominion GQ fleet be completely disarmed and interned, and this occurred prior to the Federation, and more importantly the Klingons and Romulans, allowed Odo to go cure his people. Afterwards, I'd suspect the Vorta, Jem'Hadar, and Founder populations consolidated each with a planet or planets of their own that became Federation protectorates (because they would need the protection). Since all the Founders ever really wanted was protection from Solids (ideology of order aside), this isn't really a bad outcome for them.

I just find it impossible to imagine the Federation, having fought an apocalyptic war, would blithely permit the Dominion to persist in the enslavement of thousands of worlds on the other side of the galaxy and regroup for a war of revenge, as soon as they've developed a transwarp/slipstream/ludicrous speed drive. Sure, they may be 70,000 light years away. This has never stopped anyone else of sufficient threat level. It's like saying the Federation could ignore the Borg, because they're in the Delta Quadrant and pose no threat to Alpha Quadrant people, and all the people they have ever oppressed or destroyed are in the Delta Quadrant. Neither of the premises are actually true (the only difference being that the Federation had no ability to dismantle the Borg Collective, whereas they have the opportunity to dismantle the Dominion).

Especially considering that the Feds attempted genocide on the Founders, to ever permit them to rebuild a capability to harm the Federation is folly of the most unimaginable magnitude. I can't believe any responsible decisionmaker would make that mistake. It's like the Americans and Soviets stopping at the Siegfreid Line and the border of Poland, and then letting the Germans build the bomb while they kept running Auschwitz!

The Breen, of course, were as far as we can tell the least bloodied in the war, and no doubt had resources to continue the struggle if it persisted (even if against a huge, overwhelming alliance). But, unlike Japan, there is every indication that the Breen gave up when the rest did. I suppose a negotiated peace might have been made, but I would also think the impulse for revenge would be most acute with the Breen, who joined the war for purely opportunistic purposes, slagged a whole fleet, and actually bombed Earth. I like to imagine a whole separate campaign waged in Breen Confederacy territory concurrent with the prosecution of the campaign against Cardassia... gives the DW that much more scope, and permits my favored notion of a fate for the Breen similar to the Cardassians'.
 
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indolover, they wanted to control solids through terror, if the solids didn't agree to join the Dominion they paid a heavy price, remember the episode "The Quickening"?
I wonder if the treaty allows the Fedration, Klingons & Romulans free passage into the Gamma Quadrant for exploration and settlement?

James
 
I just find it impossible to imagine the Federation, having fought an apocalyptic war, would blithely permit the Dominion to persist in the enslavement of thousands of worlds on the other side of the galaxy and regroup for a war of revenge, as soon as they've developed a transwarp/slipstream/ludicrous speed drive. Sure, they may be 70,000 light years away. This has never stopped anyone else of sufficient threat level. It's like saying the Federation could ignore the Borg, because they're in the Delta Quadrant and pose no threat to Alpha Quadrant people, and all the people they have ever oppressed or destroyed are in the Delta Quadrant. Neither of the premises are actually true (the only difference being that the Federation had no ability to dismantle the Borg Collective, whereas they have the opportunity to dismantle the Dominion).

.

I don't foresee any Dominion science breakthoughs that occur at a rate faster than that of the Federation. The Federation ship for ship was able to get where it was in two centuries while the Dominion has existed for 10,000 years.

By Braxton's time the Federation have practically become Timelords. Maybe breaking the temporal prime directive would not be frowned upon aiding contempory existential threats as opposed to altering ancient human history.
 
Hm, that is true, but the Federation's constituent parts have histories going back several hundred to a thousand years as well, making the difference of less magnitude than the time span between today and 2475. Remember, Vulcan survey ships are watching us as we speak.

(Of course, the technological leaps the peoples of the Federation manage once Earth gets involved lead one inexorably to the conclusion that the anthrocentrism of Trek is almost offensively profound. :p )
 
I just find it impossible to imagine the Federation, having fought an apocalyptic war, would blithely permit the Dominion to persist in the enslavement of thousands of worlds on the other side of the galaxy and regroup for a war of revenge, as soon as they've developed a transwarp/slipstream/ludicrous speed drive. Sure, they may be 70,000 light years away. This has never stopped anyone else of sufficient threat level. It's like saying the Federation could ignore the Borg, because they're in the Delta Quadrant and pose no threat to Alpha Quadrant people, and all the people they have ever oppressed or destroyed are in the Delta Quadrant. Neither of the premises are actually true (the only difference being that the Federation had no ability to dismantle the Borg Collective, whereas they have the opportunity to dismantle the Dominion).

.

I don't foresee any Dominion science breakthoughs that occur at a rate faster than that of the Federation. The Federation ship for ship was able to get where it was in two centuries while the Dominion has existed for 10,000 years.

By Braxton's time the Federation have practically become Timelords. Maybe breaking the temporal prime directive would not be frowned upon aiding contempory existential threats as opposed to altering ancient human history.

It may depend on the scientfic discipline. the Founders effectively genetically engineered the Vorta and the Jem Hadar, which is beyond Federation technology.
 
I just find it impossible to imagine the Federation, having fought an apocalyptic war, would blithely permit the Dominion to persist in the enslavement of thousands of worlds on the other side of the galaxy and regroup for a war of revenge, as soon as they've developed a transwarp/slipstream/ludicrous speed drive. Sure, they may be 70,000 light years away. This has never stopped anyone else of sufficient threat level. It's like saying the Federation could ignore the Borg, because they're in the Delta Quadrant and pose no threat to Alpha Quadrant people, and all the people they have ever oppressed or destroyed are in the Delta Quadrant. Neither of the premises are actually true (the only difference being that the Federation had no ability to dismantle the Borg Collective, whereas they have the opportunity to dismantle the Dominion).

.

I don't foresee any Dominion science breakthoughs that occur at a rate faster than that of the Federation. The Federation ship for ship was able to get where it was in two centuries while the Dominion has existed for 10,000 years.

By Braxton's time the Federation have practically become Timelords. Maybe breaking the temporal prime directive would not be frowned upon aiding contempory existential threats as opposed to altering ancient human history.

It may depend on the scientfic discipline. the Founders effectively genetically engineered the Vorta and the Jem Hadar, which is beyond Federation technology.

Not true, remember "Space Seed"? Khan and his follower's were genetically created well before the Federation was formed, the technology may have been outlawed, there was a decision made though not to use the technology again!

James
 
I think the previous posters are forgetting that the Federation and friends really had the Dominion by the balls

But only until the Founders were cured.

If the Feds imposed undue sanctions and then gave the cure, the Dominion would simply start a new war, and this time it would win: the Alphans were exhausted, whereas the Dominion hadn't lost any of its Gamma Quadrant strength. Or, if the Feds imposed sanctions, gave the cure, and then closed the wormhole somehow, then the Dominion would simply ignore those sanctions on the Gamma side.

If, OTOH, the Feds didn't give the cure (and time was of essence there), the Dominion would simply withdraw its surrender and annihilate the Alpha powers. If the Alphans somehow managed to close the wormhole before that, the Dominion would come a century later to annihilate the Alpha powers. Assuming, that is, that the Dominion had not fallen apart (but why would it, when it had never required the presence of its leaders before?).

Really, the Feds lost the war - and they had to play very carefully so as not to remind the Dominion of the fact. It was probably an unconditional surrender in both directions; the Dominion may have withdrawn on its own volition, the Feds on theirs, and the wormhole may have remained open (as seen in one of the final shots of "WYLB"), but the two would probably avoid looking each other in the eye for the next few decades.

Timo Saloniemi
 
Even if the Founders had been wiped out their dying wishes still would have obeyed by the various spieces who considered them Gods.

Also is it a reasonable to assume ALL founders where in fact infected via the great link? Some may be untainted, immune or less advanced in the illness. All those conditions could have meant continued conflict.
 
I think the previous posters are forgetting that the Federation and friends really had the Dominion by the balls
But only until the Founders were cured.

If the Feds imposed undue sanctions and then gave the cure, the Dominion would simply start a new war, and this time it would win: the Alphans were exhausted, whereas the Dominion hadn't lost any of its Gamma Quadrant strength. Or, if the Feds imposed sanctions, gave the cure, and then closed the wormhole somehow, then the Dominion would simply ignore those sanctions on the Gamma side.

If, OTOH, the Feds didn't give the cure (and time was of essence there), the Dominion would simply withdraw its surrender and annihilate the Alpha powers. If the Alphans somehow managed to close the wormhole before that, the Dominion would come a century later to annihilate the Alpha powers. Assuming, that is, that the Dominion had not fallen apart (but why would it, when it had never required the presence of its leaders before?).

Really, the Feds lost the war - and they had to play very carefully so as not to remind the Dominion of the fact. It was probably an unconditional surrender in both directions; the Dominion may have withdrawn on its own volition, the Feds on theirs, and the wormhole may have remained open (as seen in one of the final shots of "WYLB"), but the two would probably avoid looking each other in the eye for the next few decades.

Timo Saloniemi

I don't really agree at all, I'm afraid. :)

There's no reason to believe that a disarming would take very long given contemporary communication speeds and a completely functioning communication network. How long would it take the USN to divest itself every capital ship in its fleet, if it were imperative to do so quickly? A week, if that?

And Romulan and Klingon "observers" near the Founders' world would make any attempt at fraud particularly stupid. The Dominion worlds, now independent would be able to rapidly rearm--probably through the expedient of an equitable division of the Dominion fleet (without any petty squabbling because the masters in equity would be the FKR powers--which is, incidentally, a great initialism :D ). Any witheld Jem'Hadar fleets would face identical or greater firepower in the form of Gamma Quadrant independents, leaving the Dominion in a state of civil war from which it is unlikely to recover; the Roms and Klings--under protest from any Fed observers, of course--annihilate Founderworld from orbit and everyone goes home. Jemmie ships do not attempt pursuit because of the Jem'Hadar-eating monsters in the wormhole. Or they do attempt pursuit, and are eaten by the monsters in the wormhole.

I also suspect that Founder control over the Dominion relied in some small measure not just on the brute force of Jem'Hadar and administrative prowess of Vorta, but infiltration by Changelings, even in conquered worlds. But that is of course pure speculation.

Finally, while I do concur that there would be a risk inherent in demanding an end to the Dominion in exchange for the safe passage of Odo to Founderworld (the possibility that the process might take too long and the ensuing loss of leverage, or the unlikely event of a Vorta rebellion, or whatever) in the final analysis, the short-term loss appears pretty insignificant--no more than the cost of reducing Cardassia Prime itself, which could very possibly be devolved primarily upon the war-guilty Cardassian fleet, which was the perfect combination of motivated and expendable, as far as the Allies are concerned.

The long-term cost is exactly the same as if you had never tried at all: a resurgent Gamma Quadrant Dominion.

So, imo, the cost-benefit analysis strongly suggests they should have tried...
 
The fate of the Cardassian Union is obvious. The Klingons and Romulans no doubt took territory directly, and I doubt the Federation would have permitted anything but a Starfleet occupation and a Federation-clone government on Cardassia Prime following the war. I would expect full Federation membership within about three decades.
That's sort of what they went with in Star Trek Online. The Detapa Council has been reinstated, the Cardassian military dismantled and Starfleet is taking care of security in the Cardassian sector in its stead. People are expecting Cardassia to apply for Federation membership in the forseeable future.
 
I'm sure the crazy female founder just agreed to any old crap the Feds put on the paper.

But IMO that's a moot point because The Great Link isn't going to stand for that nonsense, and would be back invading the AQ about a week after the treaty was signed. :techman:
 
All the old contested worlds along the Cardassian border would be transferred to the Federation, former Federation colonies. Any worlds within the empire that had been taken and subjugated as Bajor was would be separated from Cardassia. Other powers bordering Cardassia, regardless if they had participated in the war, might also look to see if they can increase their territories.

Worlds in the GQ that had been subject to Dominion conquest would also gain their independance. The Dominion would still exist, but only at a fraction of it's former size.

It would be in the Federation's (and it's allies) best interest to help these worlds in their new freedom, make them better able to stand against the Dominion. In the decades following the war the Federation might move into the DQ, not just for exploration, but by way of new Federation member worlds located in the DQ.
 
After the Breen joined the Dominion Alliance Cardassia was treated like it's opinions no longer mattered, thus Damar formed the resistance against the Dominion occupation of Cardassia.
How much of the Cardassian Military followed Damar?

James
 
I also have a question- What makes anyone think there significant numbers of Dominion Ships remaining in the Gamma Quadrant? They were going to bring 2800 of them through the Wormhole. It seems like if there were a good deal more than that they would have sent more in that initial fleet. Granted, I'm sure there are still some but the idea that the Dominion brought enough ships into the Alpha Quadrant to fight the Federation, the Klingon's and the Romulan's and had sizable force in the Gamma Quadrant after the Prophets annihilated 2800 of their ships seems... unreasonable to me.


-Withers-​
 
Logic suggests that they kept enough ships back in the GQ in order to keep all their subjugated worlds under their thrall.

Given their known ability to build ships and breed troops very fast, and given the vast ressources the Dominion must have had in the GQ, it's probably safe to say, that after the war, the Dominion in the GQ was as strong as ever.
 
I recall reading that Cardassian territory was divided as part of the requirements of the Treaty with the Romulans/Klingons/Federation administrating the sectors. I believe that was mentioned in the DS9 novel Warpath. Then again that's not canon.
 
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