Kathryn Janeway - Post "Endgame"
- Thread starter Akiraprise
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Like most of the TNG-era characters, not so well, compared to KIRK. And I recall, she also succumbs to the charms of the Captain's Log, wink wink.
As for the recent Voyager novels, I'm not buying them. When Janeway returns (and I'm pretty sure she will), I'll consider catching up with them, but only if the Janeway that is written is close to the character we saw on screen.
Sorry I just don't buy the excuse that Janeway's promotion meant that she had to be killed. Surely the writers have more imagination than that.
Some day I'm going to disagree with AuntKate but today is not that day!
Ding ding ding. I think we have a winner! I think there were more fans of Voyager/Janeway than Pocket realized. Their loss...
I think there were a LOT more Janeway/Voyager fans than Pocket realized. The editors/writers didn't find the Voyager series or cast interesting since the beginning and have long since given the series the short shrift--long before they asked Peter David to "off Janeway." Voyager was ignored for years by the editors, and, when they finally resume the relaunch in earnest, they have little or no regard for the desires of the Voyager fans to actually see their ship and crew in action. It boggles the imagination.
In fact, it has been a long time since the Pocket books authors have written much of anything that appeals to the more casual Trek fan or the fan who wants at least as much fiction (relationships) as science in their scifi books. Try to pick up a recent novel and just jump into it. I'm guessing you'll soon realize that what you are reading has less to do with the franchise we've seen on the small and big screens and much more to do with the long series of novels they want you to purchase.
In the lit forum, readers occasionally complain that they can no longer pick up a title on implulse because they aren't familiar with the universe/plot that has been set up in the previous five, six, seven novels. Those readers are chastised by the writer-lurkers who insist that each novel is "stand alone." To make them stand alone, though, the writer usually starts with a long recap of the previous books, which bores the socks off the fanboys who purchase and read anything with the words Star Trek on it. It's a Catch 22. No wonder they cleaned house and got rid of their long-term editors.
I can definitely see Admiral Janeway putting aside her rank for a mission that appeals to her. I can also see her getting in trouble with TPTB so that she is demoted. Janeway tends to be more of a maverick, like Kirk. She can certainly get sideways with the admiralty.
For the near future, however, there are no new Voyager books in the works. I wonder if it is because they know, deep down, that they are going to have to eat crow and bring back Janeway. Don't they know that confession is good for the soul? "Da bums."
Yep, I that wouldn't have been out of character. I've read stuff about how once she was an admiral there was nothing for her to do. My argument would be that if they could kill her off surely they could have demoted her. Then...
... they could have stuck her in charge of the DQ fleet.
1) The path the Voyager novels were going to take in Full Circle and Unworthy was not decided when Before Dishonor was written. It wasn't as if some editor said 'wait, we've got a fleet admiral's position on the Voyager fleet, put her there instead of killing her' because they didn't know that position would exist at the time.
2) The delay of the Voyager novels was because it was originally a one author series who was focusing on other projects. The editors gave her several years, but she kept on with her other things, and finally arranged to move on. It wasn't an intentional slight to Voyager but respect for the author.
3) The books are designed to be picked up by anyone and still be understood. Anything from previous books that comes up in more than a passing mention is expanded on in the text. When it's just a passing mention, it becomes just a Noodle Incident. The books are enhanced by reading the others, but they are not essential.
4) One of the things that comes across as a common problem of those who watched Voyager is the lack of story arcs and character development, and how it was unrealistic. See the Semi-Hater thread for a good display of it. If including character development and story arcs is 'pandering to the TNG and DS9 fans,' then I guess almost every continuing series is trying to draw in that demo.
5) Kirk was demoted because he had to be officially punished over the theft of the Enterprise but realistically couldn't be punished because he'd saved Earth. Janeway hadn't done that, and it seems unlikely that there was something where she could single-handedly save the Federation that wouldn't come across as nothing but attempting to return to the status quo. In fact, if you really want to get picky, she set in motion the events of Destiny by insisting on 'having her cake and eating it too' in Endgame and blowing up not just the transwarp gate but the unicomplex.
Look, I like the Janeway character. But you know something? I like the story path they've taken. Star Trek has not seriously gone into the aftermath of death. The closest they ever came to it was Jadzia's death continuing to affect Worf throughout season seven of DS9. This death affects everyone on Voyager. It gives everyone something to react to and grow from.
No story is going to please everyone all the time. It's a given. But I think you're discounting the number of fans who wanted there to be development and consequences, some things that were lacking on the show itself.
*disgusted sigh* I keep swearing to myself that I'm not going to get involved in this argument anymore, and I never seem to learn to just leave the topic alone.
2) The delay of the Voyager novels was because it was originally a one author series who was focusing on other projects. The editors gave her several years, but she kept on with her other things, and finally arranged to move on. It wasn't an intentional slight to Voyager but respect for the author.
3) The books are designed to be picked up by anyone and still be understood. Anything from previous books that comes up in more than a passing mention is expanded on in the text. When it's just a passing mention, it becomes just a Noodle Incident. The books are enhanced by reading the others, but they are not essential.
4) One of the things that comes across as a common problem of those who watched Voyager is the lack of story arcs and character development, and how it was unrealistic. See the Semi-Hater thread for a good display of it. If including character development and story arcs is 'pandering to the TNG and DS9 fans,' then I guess almost every continuing series is trying to draw in that demo.
5) Kirk was demoted because he had to be officially punished over the theft of the Enterprise but realistically couldn't be punished because he'd saved Earth. Janeway hadn't done that, and it seems unlikely that there was something where she could single-handedly save the Federation that wouldn't come across as nothing but attempting to return to the status quo. In fact, if you really want to get picky, she set in motion the events of Destiny by insisting on 'having her cake and eating it too' in Endgame and blowing up not just the transwarp gate but the unicomplex.
Look, I like the Janeway character. But you know something? I like the story path they've taken. Star Trek has not seriously gone into the aftermath of death. The closest they ever came to it was Jadzia's death continuing to affect Worf throughout season seven of DS9. This death affects everyone on Voyager. It gives everyone something to react to and grow from.
No story is going to please everyone all the time. It's a given. But I think you're discounting the number of fans who wanted there to be development and consequences, some things that were lacking on the show itself.
*disgusted sigh* I keep swearing to myself that I'm not going to get involved in this argument anymore, and I never seem to learn to just leave the topic alone.
For the hair if nothing else.
Perhaps this makes me unimaginative, but to me "Star Trek" means Kirk, Spock McCoy, Scotty, Sulu, Uhura, Chekoff and "THE Enterprise". When they blew it up at the end of (spoilers if you haven't watched the movies from 20+ years ago) "The Search for Spock", it was almost as heart rending for me as Spocks death at the end of "Wrath of Khan". As much as I loved the fun & humor we found in the fourth movie, "The Voyage Home", it wasn't until that beauty shot of the new Enterprise at the end of the movie that I felt all was right with the world. Our gang was back together.
When I think of TNG, I think of Picard, his loyal crew and his wonderful ship. It took awhile for me to warm up to the Enterprise E, not because I'm afraid of change, but because it looked too much like Voyager on steroids. TNG however suffered from too little change except for Worf, who left for DS9 and came back intermittently. The lack of growth/progress stilted TNG and my love for same. I've watched TOS's poor first attempt at a movie many more times than TNG's last hurrah (just once!) and yet when it comes to their books, I can read them and pretend their adventures are all in the few years after "All Good Things...". I can be happy for Riker and his new command, and his relationship with Deanna, and want to find out where they go "from here".
I came to love DS9 once I watched it consistently after season 2. I can't forgive TPTB, however, for sending Sisko into that wormhole and turning him from a vital Captain, loving Father and husband into a freaking "Prophet", not to mention breaking up "the team". The books did that even more when they promoted Lt Ezri Dax and put her on the Bridge of a new ship.
To me, "Voyager" IS Captain Kathryn Janeway. Yes, the ship is as dear to me as was the previous three Enterprises 1st, A & D, but like the first, it was inextricably linked to its Captain. There was no 1701... there was no 1701A without the rakish physical Kirk. There was no 1701D without chiseled cerebral Picard. There IS no 74656 without that Auburn haired woman with the steel jaw and the stare that could melt tritanium. Kill Janeway 2 years after her return to the AQ? You might as well have put Kirk into the embrace of V'ger and let him ascend to that higher plain.
I don't mind Pocket books creating new series and moving in new directions. Heck they did that with New Frontiers, they've nearly done that with Riker's own command. But they DIDN'T kill Picard just to give Riker a ship!
More spoilers, more recent!
It took nearly 2 years before I went looking for the books that killed my Admiral. I picked up "Unworthy" expecting (in vain I'm told) to find her resurrected yet again, but haven't been able to open it yet. I loved Voyager, I love the characters the show gave birth to, and cannot forget the woman who captured my interest, my imagination. I am so disappointed the TPTB at Pocket books are so UNimaginative that they couldn't figure out what to do with "an Admiral". Kirk didn't fit the bill, and his distaste not only infected Picard, it infected every ST writer that followed in the footsteps of "ST: Generations". I just WISH these so called professionals would reread their WWII literature, brush up on Bulldog Halsey and Nimitz before they decide that there are no stories of flag officers worthy of telling. If they had, I suspect our Auburn Queen would still be striding the decks and striking fear into the hearts and minds of the next enemy who dared challenge the Federation of Planets Starfleet.
When I think of TNG, I think of Picard, his loyal crew and his wonderful ship. It took awhile for me to warm up to the Enterprise E, not because I'm afraid of change, but because it looked too much like Voyager on steroids. TNG however suffered from too little change except for Worf, who left for DS9 and came back intermittently. The lack of growth/progress stilted TNG and my love for same. I've watched TOS's poor first attempt at a movie many more times than TNG's last hurrah (just once!) and yet when it comes to their books, I can read them and pretend their adventures are all in the few years after "All Good Things...". I can be happy for Riker and his new command, and his relationship with Deanna, and want to find out where they go "from here".
I came to love DS9 once I watched it consistently after season 2. I can't forgive TPTB, however, for sending Sisko into that wormhole and turning him from a vital Captain, loving Father and husband into a freaking "Prophet", not to mention breaking up "the team". The books did that even more when they promoted Lt Ezri Dax and put her on the Bridge of a new ship.
To me, "Voyager" IS Captain Kathryn Janeway. Yes, the ship is as dear to me as was the previous three Enterprises 1st, A & D, but like the first, it was inextricably linked to its Captain. There was no 1701... there was no 1701A without the rakish physical Kirk. There was no 1701D without chiseled cerebral Picard. There IS no 74656 without that Auburn haired woman with the steel jaw and the stare that could melt tritanium. Kill Janeway 2 years after her return to the AQ? You might as well have put Kirk into the embrace of V'ger and let him ascend to that higher plain.
I don't mind Pocket books creating new series and moving in new directions. Heck they did that with New Frontiers, they've nearly done that with Riker's own command. But they DIDN'T kill Picard just to give Riker a ship!
More spoilers, more recent!
It took nearly 2 years before I went looking for the books that killed my Admiral. I picked up "Unworthy" expecting (in vain I'm told) to find her resurrected yet again, but haven't been able to open it yet. I loved Voyager, I love the characters the show gave birth to, and cannot forget the woman who captured my interest, my imagination. I am so disappointed the TPTB at Pocket books are so UNimaginative that they couldn't figure out what to do with "an Admiral". Kirk didn't fit the bill, and his distaste not only infected Picard, it infected every ST writer that followed in the footsteps of "ST: Generations". I just WISH these so called professionals would reread their WWII literature, brush up on Bulldog Halsey and Nimitz before they decide that there are no stories of flag officers worthy of telling. If they had, I suspect our Auburn Queen would still be striding the decks and striking fear into the hearts and minds of the next enemy who dared challenge the Federation of Planets Starfleet.
"Auburn Queen" = Captain Kathryn Janeway
I know this probably isn't the reply you're looking for but if any book is going to make you the least bit accepting of the decision to kill Janeway it would be the book immediately prior to Unworthy, Full Circle. It covers 2378-2381 and is one of the best books I've read in a long time.
Plus it features Janeway.
That phrase has been around for many years. I'm not sure who started it though...
True. I suggest that the reason for this is not shortsightedness, as you imply, but rather a decision to forego any other Voyager novels, which makes this particular captain expendable. The uproar over Janeway’s death was a much bigger deal than anyone there expected, and I suspect that the editors decided to mine that interest with a couple of novels that fully exploited her death. That done, there are no more Voyager novels in the works.
This is the usual excuse we get for the editors “forgetting” about Voyager for so many years. I don’t buy it. If they wanted a Voyager novel, they tell Golden to write it or they find someone else. Of course it was intentional. All you’re saying is that they respect the writer more than they do the readers.
Then why do so many new or casual readers complain about this problem? It comes up frequently on the “Literature” forum and is always dismissed. Maybe it should be taken more seriously? Unhappy readers are showing up and making the same complaint time and again. Hello!?!
What happened or didn’t happen on the series is moot at this point. A good writer can (and has) brought the crew back to life quite successfully and involved them in a new arc with new character development. Including Janeway is the only thing missing from the new story arc.
The writers can make anything happen in the novels. They can come up with a reason for Janeway to be demoted in less time than it takes a Ferengi to count his daily profits and have her save the universe in the process. I hate it when people use excuses that call into question the imagination of writers. Anything is possible.
And now that we’ve studied that, let’s bring her back. Then we can really look into the reaction of people who have loved ones restored to them by miraculous means!
Here I again have to respectfully disagree. For every fan who is happy with the current state of affairs in the Voyager relaunch, I’m betting there are two or three who are unhappy. I question the decision to make a smaller group happy, because, when it comes to selling books, making more people happy has to equate to more sales.
I don’t believe the editors are any more serious today about pursuing this relaunch than they were during the “waiting for Golden” era. They have a great writer out there who is ready and able to continue, but she is not writing. Why? Because, perhaps, they are through mining the Janeway’s dead story.
Which just proves that, when it comes to Voyager, it’s always about Janeway.
You and me both.
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