Leave it to the military to come up with something like that. “Commodore” sounds dignified and traditional. “Rear Admiral, Lower Half” sounds like playing the back half of a pantomime horse.
Kirk's Tunic Color?
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My thoughts exactly. If we consider that the whole Starfleet idea is/was supposed to represent a unified nations of earth (+ others) and also that more of the world's navies have Commodores rather than Rear Admiral LH or Flotilla Admirals - I'd have preferred to retain the rank of Commodore. I think that title is also better understood by the majority of the world's public (including Americans)...
startrekrcks
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Does it matter what colour Kirk's tunic was I like all the colors he wore especially the green wrap round.
Avocado
If you've ever brushed a piece of velour with your hand, the nap of the fabric can change colour whether it's leaning one way or the other. Similarly, coloured gels were used over the studio lights.
I've been told that this shot (below) best captures the natural appearance of the shirts off-camera, but still some people's brains interpret the shirt colour as green and others as gold:
OFF-CAMERA ISN'T CANON!
The shirts are gold, I say!
I tend to agree, but the thinking in Congress (and among admirals) was that if a one-star brigadier general is a "general," then the navy equivalent should be an "admiral" of some kind.
When the "lower half" thing started in 1899, it referred only to pay. Navy officers were promoted from captain to rear admiral (two stars). There was no one-star grade in the USN, but the lower (junior) half of rear admirals got one star pay. When complaints from the other services caused Congress to revisit the issue around 1980, they tried "commodore admiral" and plain old commodore for the navy's one-star grade, but in the end they went with the old pay-grade term of "lower half," even though it no longer makes any sense.
--Justin
LOL! Best thing I've heard all day! (and true to boot!)
That tv guide shot of ShatNimoy has a lot of ambient blue that would affect how the tunic appears. BUT - I'll bet I've posted this earlier in this thread - I saw it with my own eyes under white light in Detroit. It was greenish yellow. Not gold. Not green. A real chartreuse. But it definitely had a greenish cast. And very vibrant. Third season poly, by the way, which did photograph greener than 1 and 2 velour. In my mind, in Omega Glory location shots it looks about right. Somebody can find a screencap if they like. Be well!
LATER: I went and looked - no it's pretty gold in the scrrencaps; maybe I'm thinking of my viewmaster reels which would've used a different camera, right? I think in those it's greenish.
LATER: I went and looked - no it's pretty gold in the scrrencaps; maybe I'm thinking of my viewmaster reels which would've used a different camera, right? I think in those it's greenish.
Original tunics have to be viewed with the knowledge that colors can change over the course of time, and forty+ years can account for quite a shift. Blue tunics from the pilots have now turned magenta, for example.
Probably the best examples of what they looked like in the day, are those on James Cawley's New Voyages/Phase II productions, as they are the only ones made specifically to Bill Theiss's exact specifications, including how to dye the fabric. Reportedly, they look very green on the hangar, goldish-green when you put it on, and really gold under stage lights.
Velour is a very strange fabric...
Probably the best examples of what they looked like in the day, are those on James Cawley's New Voyages/Phase II productions, as they are the only ones made specifically to Bill Theiss's exact specifications, including how to dye the fabric. Reportedly, they look very green on the hangar, goldish-green when you put it on, and really gold under stage lights.
Velour is a very strange fabric...
The fabric used for the New Voyages/Phase II uniforms is not velour. It is the same double-knit material used in the third season, and dyed to Theiss's specifications.
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In the British Army, OTOH, a Brigadier is not in fact a General. Right?
That is true, though they were up through WW1. Likewise commodore in the RN is not considered a flag rank. Air commodore, OTOH, is considered an officer "of air rank," the RAF equivalent of a flag or general officer.
--Justin
I seem to recall a commodore in the US Navy being represented by five stripes, not an admiral's star.
Nope. A USN commodore was a one-star on the shoulder board and collar device, and a wide-band stripe for the sleeve insignia. The same system is used today for a RADML (rear admiral lower half).
Was this the practice in WWII?
The WW2 uniform insignia for commodore was one star on the shoulder boards or shirt collar and one two-inch gold band on the sleeve. The commodores appointed 1943-1945 were temporary wartime ranks whose holders reverted to their former grade (usually captain) after the war.
The insignia worn by RAdm LH today is the same as USN commodores wore from the late 1800s. The only major difference is that the flag of a RAdm LH is a conventional rectangle with one star, while commodores' flags were swallow-tailed "broad pennants":
--Justin
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It is curious, I've color sampled a lot of images of the shirt and I don't get green. But I think a lot of this issue comes from what people think is green.
For example, Apple (and NeXT before them) provided a wonderful tool for working with colors. When I pick a pure yellow, I'm pretty sure most people would say it is yellow. But if I darken that same color (without any shifting towards green), I think people see that as green.
I'm sure people will say it is whatever color they think they are seeing, but the samples I've taken almost never pull towards the actual color green. If you are attempting to generate that same color of the shirt, you'll need to stay away from actual green to end up with the green you want.
For example, Apple (and NeXT before them) provided a wonderful tool for working with colors. When I pick a pure yellow, I'm pretty sure most people would say it is yellow. But if I darken that same color (without any shifting towards green), I think people see that as green.
I'm sure people will say it is whatever color they think they are seeing, but the samples I've taken almost never pull towards the actual color green. If you are attempting to generate that same color of the shirt, you'll need to stay away from actual green to end up with the green you want.
The rank device, one star, and the two-inch gold sleeve band are worn by RADML, which was the same as a WW II Commodore rank insignia.
Picture of a RADML sleeve band worn on dress blues.
It seems as if you are mixing insignia and ensign in your last graph. An ensign is a flag, which is what you mention and is of course flown not worn.
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