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Military Tribunal or Criminal Court?

TheLonelySquire

Vice Admiral
Now that President Obama has decided to look at moving terror trials out of Manhattan, what should be done? Criminal Court in another location? Stay in NYC? Military Tribunals? Set 'em free?

What say you?
 
I'd also like to know if people think they should be read a Miranda warning when they are captured.

That question has quite a bit of hyperbole in it. They have no constitutional rights per se, so there's no need to be informed of their fifth and sixth amendment rights. However, they do have rights to due process in general under the Third Geneva Convention (and there's an interest in fairness in ensuring that only guilty people are convicted).

Considering the nature of the capture and interrogation, any confession is at best very suspect (I personally wouldn't consider it admissible no matter what, but I'm in the minority there). Certainly, statements made by the detainees at Camp X-Ray were done so in highly coercive environments and shouldn't be admissible. That would be regardless of whether or not they were informed of their rights (which, btw, would be a balancing test. When arrested by the military, the focus would be on ensuring that any immediate threat is neutralized. If they intended to interrogate the suspect, they would need to be informed of whatever rights they do have, however limited).

As for military tribunal vs. criminal court, the answer is simple. Whichever is better equipped to ensure due process and rule of law in prosecuting people suspected of being part of a terrorist group or committed war crimes through acts of terrorism. Generally speaking, a military tribunal should be better because the civilian courts have a backlog. But it does mean that rules need to be in place before anything can begin that pass Constitutional muster a la Boumediene and Hamdi.
 
Criminal Court, I think. No death penalty either because that will just make them martyrs (I'm against it as a rule but in this case it becomes even more important).
 
terrorism isn't a military offence - it's an offence under civillian law.

Should also be noted al qaeda creeps prosecuted for the first attacks on the WTC were tried in a civilian court and now reside in a civilian supermax facility.

Timothy McViegh was also tried, convicted, imporisoned and then executed by the civilian system.

The Nazis at Nurenberg were prosecuted in a court where the case was heard by civilian justices.

Also note that the an attempt was made to prosecute "enemy combatants" in the wake of the Kosovo war and it failed.

The treatment of prisoners who do not fall into the categories described in Article 4 has led to the current controversy regarding the interpretation of "unlawful combatants" by the George W. Bush administration. The assumption that such a category as unlawful combatant exists is contradicted by the findings by the International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia in the Celebici Judgment. The judgement quoted the 1958 ICRC commentary on the Fourth Geneva Convention: Every person in enemy hands must be either a prisoner of war and, as such, be covered by the Third Convention; or a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention. Furthermore, "There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law,"[2]
In addition, the evidence provided to the Trial Chamber does not indicate that the Bosnian Serbs who were detained were, as a group, at all times carrying their arms openly and observing the laws and customs of war. Article 4(A)(6) undoubtedly places a somewhat high burden on local populations to behave as if they were professional soldiers and the Trial Chamber, therefore, considers it more appropriate to treat all such persons in the present case as civilians.It is important, however, to note that this finding is predicated on the view that there is no gap between the Third and the Fourth Geneva Conventions. If an individual is not entitled to the protections of the Third Convention as a prisoner of war (or of the First or Second Conventions) he or she necessarily falls within the ambit of Convention IV, provided that its article 4 requirements are satisfied. The Commentary to the Fourth Geneva Convention asserts that Every person in enemy hands must have some status under international law: he is either a prisoner of war and, as such, covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, or again, a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention. There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can be outside the law. We feel that this is a satisfactory solution – not only satisfying to the mind, but also, and above all, satisfactory from the humanitarian point of view." Jean Pictet (ed.)[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Geneva_Convention
 
They're unlawful combatants.
That's a made up term. Either civil rights exist -- including the right to representation and due process -- or they don't. They're certainly not granted by a piece of paper, nor do they stop at some imaginary line on a map somewhere.
 
If I may paraphrase the brilliant legal mind of Melvin Belii in "And The Children Shall Lead"....Death..Death to them all..."
 
Military tribunal. Those have their own form of due process, and you also don't end up having the government give away critical intelligence in public as part of their defense (which is something Al Qaeda has stated it wants to do--use our legal process against us...which is what they did with the FIRST WTC bombing).
 
Military tribunal. Those have their own form of due process, and you also don't end up having the government give away critical intelligence in public as part of their defense (which is something Al Qaeda has stated it wants to do--use our legal process against us...which is what they did with the FIRST WTC bombing).
None of which meets any sort of publicly accepted standard. Given the recent issues with classification (namely the attempt to justify avoiding standard treatment of prisoners) and the secrecy that was instituted to avoid proper justice the notion that there will be both a fair and secret trial is, in my view, asinine.

At best, it's unAmerican.
 
If we were actually dealing with American citizens, I could see that. But these are foreign nationals engaging in paramilitary operations; laws governing prisoners of war are applicable instead.
 
If we were actually dealing with American citizens, I could see that. But these are foreign nationals engaging in paramilitary operations; laws governing prisoners of war are applicable instead.
As I said, rights don't stop at ANY border. It doesn't matter whether someone is American, Canadian, Iranian, or Russian. This nation was built on the foundation that rights are natural and perpetual, and, by any standard, natural law does not end at a political border. Either they exist or they don't, and denial of some of our most basic ideals because they're inconvenient -- particularly in light of the last administration's wholesale abuse of foreign nationals' civil rights -- is cowardly and, again, unAmerican.
 
Criminal Court, I think. No death penalty either because that will just make them martyrs (I'm against it as a rule but in this case it becomes even more important).

Unless we televise the syringe with the lethal agents pulling blood out of a pig just before the bastard gets injected.

I sure as hell don't want to pay for a lifetime of jail.
 
But these are foreign nationals engaging in paramilitary operations; laws governing prisoners of war are applicable instead.
And you know all of that for a fact even without a trial? Gee why even bother with annoyances like "presumption of innocence"?
 
But these are foreign nationals engaging in paramilitary operations; laws governing prisoners of war are applicable instead.
And you know all of that for a fact even without a trial? Gee why even bother with annoyances like "presumption of innocence"?
They don't want trials. As Gertch's post so eloquently points out, they want executions. It's violent, savage, and completely devoid of humanity and justice, and it's the primary reason these people should be tried in civil court and out in the open. Letting the savages have their way is a very bad idea.
 
These people are criminals and should be tried as criminals.

Our government declaring itself "at war" with them, insofar as its purpose is to mistreat them in the imaginary hope of gaining some advantage is simply a bully looking for a bigger stick.
 
But these are foreign nationals engaging in paramilitary operations; laws governing prisoners of war are applicable instead.
And you know all of that for a fact even without a trial? Gee why even bother with annoyances like "presumption of innocence"?
They don't want trials. As Gertch's post so eloquently points out, they want executions. It's violent, savage, and completely devoid of humanity and justice, and it's the primary reason these people should be tried in civil court and out in the open. Letting the savages have their way is a very bad idea.
Strangely the same thing can be said about the people that commit these terrorist attacks. so basically what you have is two sides of the same coins, each one ensconced in their belief that their "justice" is right.
 
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