Spock got HITCHED?!?

[Too Much Fun]

So I was watching the TNG episode "Sarek" and was surprised to hear Picard mention very quickly and casually that he'd only ever met Sarek briefly at his son's wedding. That strikes me as a bit of a bombshell...Spock got married? When? Why? How? To Whom? This made me wonder why I'd never seen any speculation here about Spock's marriage.

Granted, Spock wasn't seen much in the Star Trek universe after that episode, but if Picard's remark was true, he was married or divorced when seen in "Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country", "Unification", and the 2009 "Star Trek". Anyone have ideas about this? Who could he have married? Why was there never any mention of it (aside from the writers forgetting about it)? Has it been explained in novels?

 

[sbk1234]

The general assumption, as well as being backed up by some non-canon books and short stories, is that it was Saavik.

 

[DevilEyes]

^ From what I've heard, in the novel Vulcan's Heart he marries

Spoiler: Vulcan's Heart

Saavik

which means that I'm not eager to read it, since I've always found their... erm... hookup rather creepy.

 

[captcalhoun]

2340s, he was in love, the Vulcan way, to Saavik.

in the novels.

and no, he wasn't married in TUC. Yes, he was in Unification and probably, yes he was prior to the events of THAT movie.

 

[KimMH]

^ From what I've heard, in the novel Vulcan's Heart he marries

Spoiler: Vulcan's Heart

Saavik

which means that I'm not eager to read it, since I've always found their... erm... hookup rather creepy.

I had never really thought about it being creepy until people pointed out he was her mentor and some people seem to think there was an actual familial relationship. I guess if some Trek viewers disregard the lit because it's not necessarily canon, some writers feel the same way! I just didn't feel it myself; I thought the Romulan Commander would have been better - but of course the Vulcan trilogy made it clear that was not going to happen! I enjoyed it anyway and kind of shrugged and was happy for him.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I had never really thought about it being creepy until people pointed out he was her mentor

Had he married Saavik around the time of ST II, that would be creepy. But Vulcans have very long lifespans. Both Saavik and Spock are unbonded individuals (one comic suggested Saavik was bonded to Xon, and Spock was released from his bond to T'Pring) but they essentially bonded during ST III, when young, regenerated Spock was going through his second first pon farr.

To meet up again almost a century later, realise neither had found a new partner, and to become a couple because it was logical not to continue living apart - then why not? In the real world, there are examples of ex-students and their teachers meeting up again in later life - should they be denied happiness because (decades earlier) they were once teacher/student?

 

[DevilEyes]

^ From what I've heard, in the novel Vulcan's Heart he marries

Spoiler: Vulcan's Heart

Saavik

which means that I'm not eager to read it, since I've always found their... erm... hookup rather creepy.

I had never really thought about it being creepy until people pointed out he was her mentor and some people seem to think there was an actual familial relationship.

No, that's not why I found it creepy. So I guess nobody else thinks it was icky that she had sex in order to 'help out' with a Spock who was basically a newborn baby in a teenage body?

 

[Marie1]

^ From what I've heard, in the novel Vulcan's Heart he marries

Spoiler: Vulcan's Heart

Saavik

which means that I'm not eager to read it, since I've always found their... erm... hookup rather creepy.

I had never really thought about it being creepy until people pointed out he was her mentor and some people seem to think there was an actual familial relationship.

No, that's not why I found it creepy. So I guess nobody else thinks it was icky that she had sex in order to 'help out' with a Spock who was basically a newborn baby in a teenage body?

But Vulcans aren't humans... it's part of their growth process is it not? I remember the Vulcan in VOY who was away from home when it came time for him to mate, and he almost went insane, so I figured the same would be the case with Spock? It's... a biological necessity?

 

[KimMH]

oh, I see. I think DevilEyes is pointing out that Saavik's assistance of Spock before his body was rejoined with his Katra is the equivalent of molesting a developmentally delayed person - or at least a person who is unformed emotionally or psychically. That is a valid point. The Voyager forum sees this argument relative to Kes and Neelix.

I will confess I have not seen the movie in years and have read a lot of lit that does not address that issue. Again, Trek authors may have forgotten the issue or never considered it - like me.

 

[Sector 7]

It is a matter of projection... our human standards on another species. That is another reason the Prime Directive was written.

 

[DevilEyes]

It is a matter of projection our human standards on another species.

What is Star Trek but a projection of human characteristics on fictional alien species.

I will confess I have not seen the movie in years and have read a lot of lit that does not address that issue. Again, Trek authors may have forgotten the issue or never considered it - like me.

I'm not sure that even the screenwriters of TSFS ever gave the whole issue of resurrected Spock much thought. What happened with newborn Spock after Spock's katra was joined with him? They said he was a 'blank slate' mentally, but isn't it just because he was a few days old and didn't have any experience or knowledge? It's not like he was an inanimate object! Was he a different person from Spock 1.0? Or, if resurrected Spock was Spock, and Spock's katra was Spock, does that mean that, prior to the joining, Spock existed in two places at once? Very confusing...

 

[Sector 7]

It is a matter of projection our human standards on another species.

What is Star Trek but a projection of human characteristics on fictional alien species.

One of the lessons of Trek is to respect alien cultures. It is not to pre-judge (hence the word prejudice) them by our standards.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

oh, I see. I think DevilEyes is pointing out that Saavik's assistance of Spock before his body was rejoined with his Katra is the equivalent of molesting a developmentally delayed person - or at least a person who is unformed emotionally or psychically. That is a valid point.

Actually it was a very logical thing for Saavik to do, IMHO. Spock was not newborn, he was regenerated. And he was going through pon farr and would have died, had Saavik not intervened. So she did what she had to do to save Spock's life.

The Voyager forum sees this argument relative to Kes and Neelix.

Which also doesn't make sense, since by Ocampa standards, Kes was already an adult.

 

[Agenda]

Meh. Books aren't canon. He could've gotten married to anybody. Or maybe it wasn't him.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Sarek had no other sons (Sybok was already dead), so it MUST have been Spock.

 

[DevilEyes]

One of the lessons of Trek is to respect alien cultures. It is not to pre-judge (hence the word prejudice) them by our standards.

That never stopped the humans from being disgusted by Klingon and Ferengi cuisine.

oh, I see. I think DevilEyes is pointing out that Saavik's assistance of Spock before his body was rejoined with his Katra is the equivalent of molesting a developmentally delayed person - or at least a person who is unformed emotionally or psychically. That is a valid point.

Actually it was a very logical thing for Saavik to do, IMHO. Spock was not newborn, he was regenerated.

With the mind of a newborn baby.

And he was going through pon farr and would have died, had Saavik not intervened. So she did what she had to do to save Spock's life.

Yeah. But it's still creepy/icky.

 

[Agenda]

oh, I see. I think DevilEyes is pointing out that Saavik's assistance of Spock before his body was rejoined with his Katra is the equivalent of molesting a developmentally delayed person - or at least a person who is unformed emotionally or psychically. That is a valid point.

Actually it was a very logical thing for Saavik to do, IMHO. Spock was not newborn, he was regenerated.

With the mind of a newborn baby.

And he was going through pon farr and would have died, had Saavik not intervened. So she did what she had to do to save Spock's life.

Yeah. But it's still creepy/icky.

I wonder why they even went there in Star Trek III. I mean, with all the improbable Genesis planet stuff going on, did they really think that movie audiences would be overly concerned about Spock's pon farr at that point? No wonder some people think Trek is weird. This is what passes for romance in these films?

 

[KimMH]

Sex sells. I bet they hoped afterwards no one would remember it. Too bad we Trekkies are like elephants - never forget!

 

[Agenda]

^ Sarek had no other sons (Sybok was already dead), so it MUST have been Spock.

I admit it's a very high probability. I'm just saying, if it's not definitively stated, then it's not definitively stated.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I'm just saying, if it's not definitively stated, then it's not definitively stated.

Well, let's turn that around then. It was never stated that Sarek had any other sons, so therefore, he did not. And since we know Sybok died long before Picard was ever born, then it MUST have been Spock who got married. We know this by both your logic and mine.