Dalek timeline

[EJA]

In the classic story Genesis of the Daleks, the Time Lords send the Fourth Doctor back in time to Skaro's past to alter Dalek history, and at the end the Doctor says he's succeeded in setting their development back by a thousand years. So how does this affect all the Dalek stories that happened previously? The Seventh Doctor mentions the Dalek invasion of 22nd century Earth as though it's still valid in Remembrance of the Daleks. And I know they aren't strictly speaking canon, but the Eighth Doctor comic strip story Children of the Revolution refers to the events of Evil of the Daleks, and the Tenth Doctor novel Prisoner of the Daleks seems to me to take place round the time of the Dalek conflict in Frontier in Space/Planet of the Daleks (although for some strange, unexplained reason, the Daleks here more resemble those of the Time War era, which is a bit odd).

And then there's the fact that in their early stories, the Daleks used static electricity, but in Genesis they seem to have their own power source, which I don't think has ever been addressed.

 

[Captain Pike]

There has been a number of online chronologies over the years including two distinct "Histories" of the Daleks at the BBC's own website. Here is one of the remaining ones, chosen at random - The History of the Daleks.

ETA - Here are the BBC ones -
Dalek history: Part One
Dalek history: Part two

 

[EJA]

Isn't it primarily due to the Doctor's interference that the Kaled government tries to stop Davros' experiments in Genesis, leading Davros to destroy the majority of Kaleds and their city? This most likely didn't happen in the original timeline; I have an idea the city the Daleks lived in in The Daleks was the same one destroyed by the Thals, with help from Davros, in Genesis. Then again, maybe the Daleks built it after exterminating Davros.

 

[EJA]

Anyone else like to comment?

 

[Chaos Descending]

Nah. Thanks for asking!

 

[Professor Zoom]

I think if one is looking for an overall consistency in the timeline of events is Doctor Who, one will go mad.

Best to say...the stuff happened.

 

[Candlelight]

And then there's the fact that in their early stories, the Daleks used static electricity, but in Genesis they seem to have their own power source, which I don't think has ever been addressed.

In The Dalek Invasion of Earth the Doctor points out they have employed the use of discs on their backs that transmits power via radio waves (or something). In Episode 6, Susan and David knock out the power and render them immobile.

In The Chase et al, the Daleks use the new midrif slats or "solar panels" for power.

In terms of history, there are three floating about:

- The first three Doctor's encounters with them.
- Genesis onwards
- The Time War

I include three cos it would appear the Time War has again changed how Daleks would propagate around the universe. Humans seemed to have no knowledge of Daleks in 2012 in Dalek despite the mass invasions that occured in Doomsday and The Stolen Earth.

 

[Bacl]

Keep in mind that there is no such thing as "original timeline" in Doctor Who. Star Trek employs a linear timeline, one that can be both mucked up and set back to default, but Doctor Who gives us a non-linear one in which everything is happening all at once.

The Dalek timeline is not a straight line. Given that they too were time travellers long before the actual Time War makes things more complicated.

 

[Tom]

Keep in mind that there is no such thing as "original timeline" in Doctor Who. Star Trek employs a linear timeline, one that can be both mucked up and set back to default, but Doctor Who gives us a non-linear one in which everything is happening all at once.

The Dalek timeline is not a straight line. Given that they too were time travellers long before the actual Time War makes things more complicated.

Quite right, The show follows the Doctors timeline only, everything else is in flux and always changing (Earth, Daleks). Even previous doctor stories are changing in relation to the current Doctor. The doctor knows they happened but to the rest of the universe they may have not happened this is whay its a big deal for the current doctor to run into his former selves. A linear timeline is not what Doctor Who is about and 'Star Trek' logic does not apply .

 

[Andrew_Kearley]

Personally, I prefer not to worry about it. As has been said, time is constantly in flux - especially as the Daleks and the Time Lords have been fighting a Time War for thousands of years - who knows what events might have really happened and what not?

Even without all that complication, I don't believe it's ever been possible to construct a complete Dalek timeline from the few stories we've seen/heard/read over the years. Very few of the stories get given dates, and we can't see the historical context: mostly we see single incidents (battles and other violent events in the main, but without the detailed political and military background to whatever campaign the battles are a part of) . An analogy I like to use would be to take battle reports of say one hundred engagements fought by the British over the last thousand years - just the events of the day without any detailed political and military context - assemble them in random order without dates - and then see if you could construct a precise history of Britain out of them. I doubt it would be possible...

 

[EJA]

This guy has created a rather interesting history of the Daleks here:

http://meshyfish.com/~roo/docwho5a.html

He theorises that the Daleks seen in The Daleks were Mark 2 Daleks (the Daleks in Genesis of the Daleks are Mark 3), thus they were a bit more primitive, and they constitute a different "sub-race" to the more advanced Daleks that emerged from their underground bunker after the Mark 2's were destroyed.

 

[JoeZhang]

Keep in mind that there is no such thing as "original timeline" in Doctor Who. Star Trek employs a linear timeline, one that can be both mucked up and set back to default, but Doctor Who gives us a non-linear one in which everything is happening all at once.

The Dalek timeline is not a straight line. Given that they too were time travellers long before the actual Time War makes things more complicated.

Quite right, The show follows the Doctors timeline only, everything else is in flux and always changing (Earth, Daleks). Even previous doctor stories are changing in relation to the current Doctor. The doctor knows they happened but to the rest of the universe they may have not happened this is whay its a big deal for the current doctor to run into his former selves. A linear timeline is not what Doctor Who is about and 'Star Trek' logic does not apply .

There is a very neat BBC Doctor Who book where the first Doctor travels to 2006 and finds that the UK is a bombed out wasteland, this is not an alternative universe but the actual history of 2006 because at that point in the Doctor own time-line he doesn't exist as the second Doctor to change history in the 1960s and thus change the future (if you follow me).

 

[EJA]

The thing is though, if history was altered by the Doctor's actions in Genesis, then what became of Susan, Katerina, and Victoria? In the original timeline Susan stayed behind on 22nd century Earth after helping defeat the Dalek invasion; Katarina was killed in the course of a mission to fight the Daleks in The Dalek's Masterplan, and the chain of events that led the Second Doctor and Jamie to meet Victoria were because of her father's involvement with the Daleks in Evil of the Daleks. Depending on how much history was changed in Genesis, what happens to these people now?

 

[Tom]

The thing is though, if history was altered by the Doctor's actions in Genesis, then what became of Susan, Katerina, and Victoria? In the original timeline Susan stayed behind on 22nd century Earth after helping defeat the Dalek invasion; Katarina was killed in the course of a mission to fight the Daleks in The Dalek's Masterplan, and the chain of events that led the Second Doctor and Jamie to meet Victoria were because of her father's involvement with the Daleks in Evil of the Daleks. Depending on how much history was changed in Genesis, what happens to these people now?

There seperate timelines, again renforcing the reasons why it is hard for the Doctor to meet his previous selves.

 

[RoJoHen]

I think if one is looking for an overall consistency in the timeline of events is Doctor Who, one will go mad.

Best to say...the stuff happened.

It's amazing how many issues can be solved with the "wibbly wobbly timey whimey" explanation.

 

[ATimson]

It's amazing how many issues can be solved with the "wibbly wobbly timey whimey" explanation.

That's not a solution, that's a deliberate choice to ignore them.

 

[EJA]

The thing is though, if history was altered by the Doctor's actions in Genesis, then what became of Susan, Katerina, and Victoria? In the original timeline Susan stayed behind on 22nd century Earth after helping defeat the Dalek invasion; Katarina was killed in the course of a mission to fight the Daleks in The Dalek's Masterplan, and the chain of events that led the Second Doctor and Jamie to meet Victoria were because of her father's involvement with the Daleks in Evil of the Daleks. Depending on how much history was changed in Genesis, what happens to these people now?

There seperate timelines, again renforcing the reasons why it is hard for the Doctor to meet his previous selves.

I'm not sure I understand. How does this explain what happens to Susan and the others due to the events of Genesis?

 

[Tom]

The thing is though, if history was altered by the Doctor's actions in Genesis, then what became of Susan, Katerina, and Victoria? In the original timeline Susan stayed behind on 22nd century Earth after helping defeat the Dalek invasion; Katarina was killed in the course of a mission to fight the Daleks in The Dalek's Masterplan, and the chain of events that led the Second Doctor and Jamie to meet Victoria were because of her father's involvement with the Daleks in Evil of the Daleks. Depending on how much history was changed in Genesis, what happens to these people now?

There seperate timelines, again renforcing the reasons why it is hard for the Doctor to meet his previous selves.

I'm not sure I understand. How does this explain what happens to Susan and the others due to the events of Genesis?

They live in there own time streams (or universes or time threads) where these events happened. To the current Doctor, if he just went into the 22nd century Susan would not be there because they are now in different time streams. The Doctor would have to cross over to that time stream (universe) to see here and even possibly bump into his first incarnation.

In 'The Age of Steel' we do see that the Doctor can cross between these places and he mentioned it was alot easier to do this when the Time Lords were around. This makes sense if you watch the Three Doctors where the Time Lords are the ones putting the Doctors together and in the Five Doctors where Barousa put the 4 Doctors and companions together and accidentaly trapping the 4th in the proccess. In the Two Doctors it seems that the 2nd doctor was on a mission for the Time Lords so they probably helped him and 6 get together.

The time streams are constantly changing (branching off etc..) but that is ok, because story wise, we are fixed on the Doctors continuety, not Earth, Daleks or anything else. That said it, Gallifry and the Timelords live out side of the constant changing universe and thus follow the Doctors continuity. Since Susan is a timelord (lady) and probably outlived her human husband she probably went back to Gallifry.

 

[EJA]

An alternative theory I've just thought of regarding Genesis of the Daleks: What if the Fourth Doctor didn't actually change anything when he was in Skaro's past? Maybe Four's meeting with Davros was always part of the Web of Time, and led into the earlier stories? Maybe the Time Lord who introduced Four to his mission was actually the Black Guardian, or some other malevolent being, in disguise, setting the scene for the Time Lords and Daleks wiping one another out in the future?

 

[Tom]

Well anything is possible I suppose, especialy with this show. lol