240hz TVs

[RobertScorpio]

So I have had mine for about two months (50" Samsung). I went over to my friend's house to watch NATIONAL TREASURE 2 on Bluray last week, and I couldn't take it. I can not go back. I convinced him to come over to my house so we could watch it on mine...

There is a noticable difference watching HD on this tv, especially when it comes to sports, mainly, FOOTBALL. My San Diego Chargers look like they are playing ball and I am hovering over them in a glider; its that real looking.

Yes...it is that good...Do any of you have one yet and can you tell the difference???

Rob

 

[Yoda]

Still plodding along at 60hz 720p on a Sony 3LCD rear-projection set! I have to think that less input lag is worth more than 240hz to me. I just did a little research about 120hz/240hz and it seems like motion blur is the major consideration that these things are designed for. I thought that it would've been more about handling 24fps sources correctly since 24 is divisible into 120, and not so much for 60. I don't really like the idea of all the interpolation that 240hz implies.

I don't know, anybody know of any affordable 60+" TVs that handle 24fps smoothly, doesn't introduce a lot of weird looking interpolation, perfect black levels, and zero input lag for gaming? Anyone?

 

[Chindogu]

Still plodding along at 60hz 720p on a Sony 3LCD rear-projection set! I have to think that less input lag is worth more than 240hz to me. I just did a little research about 120hz/240hz and it seems like motion blur is the major consideration that these things are designed for. I thought that it would've been more about handling 24fps sources correctly since 24 is divisible into 120, and not so much for 60. I don't really like the idea of all the interpolation that 240hz implies.

I don't know, anybody know of any affordable 60+" TVs that handle 24fps smoothly, doesn't introduce a lot of weird looking interpolation, perfect black levels, and zero input lag for gaming? Anyone?

It sounds like you're looking for a Plasma. I have a Panasonic 50" V10 and it's a thing of beauty. PS3 games perform perfectly, Blu Rays are stunning at 24fps, blacks are super inky, and even standard def content looks pretty damn good.

The cons of LCDs, the main being that weird 'soap opera' dejuddering effect, was just not worth it for me. I actually think they look rather "fake" overall.

Rob, I'm curious, what TV does your friend have?

 

[Arrqh]

I just did a little research about 120hz/240hz and it seems like motion blur is the major consideration that these things are designed for. I thought that it would've been more about handling 24fps sources correctly since 24 is divisible into 120, and not so much for 60. I don't really like the idea of all the interpolation that 240hz implies.

There's only interpolation if you tell it to interpolate, though all TV's capable of doing it have it on by default. A lot of people confuse the two... 120hz TV's are better because they can eliminate motion blur on 24fps source video and there's no way that can be considered a negative. The interpolation that they do is another matter entirely and one I personally find extremely annoying... the first thing I did after buying a 120hz set was to turn it off.

The cons of LCDs, the main being that weird 'soap opera' dejuddering effect, was just not worth it for me. I actually think they look rather "fake" overall.

And again, you can turn it off and you still get the benefit of being able to display 24fps film content without doing any sort of pulldown.

 

[Data Holmes]

Interpolation?

 

[BigFoot]

Interpolation?

Wiki article

 

[Mr. B]

...just another number for marketing like megapixels... there's no content to be had that exceeds 60hz. I'll take my 60hz plasma over a "faster" LCD any day.

 

[Data Holmes]

...just another number for marketing like megapixels... there's no content to be had that exceeds 60hz. I'll take my 60hz plasma over a "faster" LCD any day.

No content... yet.

 

[Arrqh]

...just another number for marketing like megapixels... there's no content to be had that exceeds 60hz. I'll take my 60hz plasma over a "faster" LCD any day.

No, this misses the point.

Screens that are at 60hz need to do what's called a 2:3 pulldown to display 24fps film content. You can look it up in more detail, but essentially the modern method creates a "dirty" frame every fifth frame. But if you have a TV that refreshes at 120hz (or 240hz) then you don't have to do a pulldown, you can show the content at the exact framerate it was filmed at without doing any sort of a conversation, hence you get no dirty frames. Therefore eliminating one of the causes of "blurry" video on HDTV's.

The motion smoothing or interpolation effect is going one step further... instead of just showing the frames at their correct times, the TV will actually generate inbetween frames to give the appearance of smoother motion. This is what gives everything the "daytime soap opera" look which I personally greatly dislike, but some people like the OP seem to like it.

As for plasmas, there are quite a few plasma sets that support 48/96hz for this very reason. They don't do interpolation as far as I know, but they do eliminate blurring caused by the 2:3 pulldown on 60hz sets.

 

[Mr. B]

...just another number for marketing like megapixels... there's no content to be had that exceeds 60hz. I'll take my 60hz plasma over a "faster" LCD any day.

No content... yet.

Don't the limitations of the HDMI 1.3 spec make that a moot point?

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

This is the same idea as the "refresh rate" of a computer monitor, right?

 

[Yoda]

This is the same idea as the "refresh rate" of a computer monitor, right?

Sort of... except that at least back in the day on CRTs you could actually set your refresh rate to say 120hz and get 120fps in a game if your hardware can handle it. I suppose maybe there are high end LCDs out today with better refresh rates, and maybe they can do the same (I'm not up on the specs at all ... maybe dual link mode for ultra-high refresh rates?).

But as someone mentioned, the 'problem' with the 120+hz TVs is that there isn't any input spec for the higher refresh rates, so you can't actually get the extra frames to make the higher refresh rate matter in that regard. But there are specifications for 24fps film, and the ability to correct for pulldown and the like from DVD sources... It may be counter-intuitive, but the main benefit that I can see to the technology is the ability to show the 24fps content (i.e. 'slower' refresh rate) more smoothly. 60fps looks perfect at 60hz, or 120hz, but 24fps can look perfect at 120hz but not 60hz.

Back to the interpolation for a moment. Personally, I hate it. If you ask me, the human brain is better at interpolating than any computer algorithms we have. Not to mention we've all had at least a decade of training our brain to do it by watching films.

 

[USS Mariner]

On two separate occasions, I managed to catch a glimpse of what Blu-Ray content looks like on either a 120 or 240hz HD set at Sam's Club, first playing TF2, then playing Twilight the second time.

I can't really describe how the video looked it. It felt uncomfortably smooth and fast, yet I could tell that neither the video nor the sound was out of sync. TF2's CG scenes looked like garbage on it, yet the live-action stuff was "fine" for both TF2 and Twilight.

I've never had that sensation in a movie theater or at home, so is this the result of interpolated frames, or is this actually 24fps? Again, I've never had this experience seeing a physically projected film.

 

[Corran Horn]

my Wife's grandma just got a new Samsung LED TV...HD as always looks great. But...some HD TV shows and upscaled DVD movies (she does not have a blu-ray player) exhibit something odd to me. It seems that when people are in motion it almost looks like an old film projected movie that has been over-cranked. People seem to be moving a half-second faster than is normal, and it looks odd.

This didn't happen with a football game we watched in HD, so I'm puzzled as to why. Could it be this 'motion blur' stuff?

I personally have a samsung LNT4661f and am quite happy with it.

 

[LitmusDragon]

This thread makes me want to get a new HDTV.

 

[USS Mariner]

In all honesty, my cheapo 720p HDTV from Insignia has great HD picture. I had a chance to compare it to a 1080p model that my father has in DC, and in all honestly, things look clearer on mine. Now, we both have Comcast cable, so everything we see is compressed to bejeezus. For example, I was watching something a few days ago, and a random white cloud of macroblocking flashed onto the screen during a night scene.

Of course, I also know how to properly calibrate the damn thing. I was at a friend's house on New Year's Eve and her big-screen Plasma was set to "lobster" mode.

"What's Zoidberg doing in Times Square?"

 

[Data Holmes]

Lobster mode.