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Hercules and Xena...thoughts?

Xena's staff did go through some significant changes. My favorite writer for the show's first few seasons, Steven L. Sears, left midway through season 5, and the writing wasn't as good thereafter. And there was a largely new writing staff in the final season (which was an improvement from late season 5), headed up by Emily Skopov and including Chris Black and popular slash-fanfic author Melissa Good.
 
I also loved Discord--trouble-making lil'bitch that she was. I preferred her by the name Aphrodite called her once though, "The Goddess of Skank".
 
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Xena's staff did go through some significant changes. My favorite writer for the show's first few seasons, Steven L. Sears, left midway through season 5, and the writing wasn't as good thereafter. And there was a largely new writing staff in the final season (which was an improvement from late season 5), headed up by Emily Skopov and including Chris Black and popular slash-fanfic author Melissa Good.

Yeah, for some reason I didn't think of season 6. Forgot about all those fanfic writers.

Steven Sears is also one my favorite writers in Xena. And midway through season 5 is still almost to the end. :p

And Xena still had R.J Stewart and Rob Tapert who were from the beginning to the end. Hercules didn't have that.
 
I also loved Discord--trouble-making lil'bitch that she was. I preferred her by the name Aphrodite called her once though, "The Goddess of Skank".

Yeah, she was cool. Even though the running gag was way overdone by the end, I really liked her in that episode where there's a mystery everyone is trying to solve about a murder. The solution was ridiculous, but it was a fun episode anyway. What's the general consensus on the series finale? Did everyone else hate it as much as I did?

I second the love for Aphordite and the actress playing her. I loved her look, attitude, and costume. Like Autolycus, she was a character I could always rely on to elevate any episode she was in (although she did appear in a few stinkers). My other favourite supporting cast babe was that recurring character (forgot her name) who liked dancing and first showed up wanting to get rid of Gabrielle and be Xena's new sidekick.
 
I didn't hate the finale. It had good and bad. Gabby's Kurosawaesque sword fight was awesome, but the blatantly obvious passing-the-torch training session at the water tower was ham-handed. The main problem was setting it in Japan instead of back home in Greece - it sort of had nothing to do with the rest of the series.
 
Yeah that always struck me as odd. Instead of kinda going full circle with the series they set it in... Japan? I mean sure it was cool and all but the fact that they did what they did to Xena and just ended it there. Annoying.

Although I am going to second/third/forth whatever the love for 'Dite and Discord. Its kind of funny that Tydings didn't do much more acting after that. She got married, had a kid, and now does Rock and Roll Exercise classes. Oh and plays in a band. LOL Of course how would you like to be her kid going through puberty and stumbling across pictures of her in lingerie? :SHOCK: Especially since she's more brunette these days and not dizzy frizzy blonde. That poor kid.
 
More than the pics I'd think it would be the friends who thought his Mom was HOT that would be weird. Having said that, inspite of the general "less is more" attitude to Aphrodite's clothing, there is also a cheerful wholesomeness (tho' she also has her spoilt side of things) that the actress imparted to her character. I think it's a cool mixture to bring to the character of Aphrodite. In some ways, she's played as a child-woman.

I hate to bring another medium into it but currently Greg Pak and Fred Van Lente are doing great work on The Incredible Hercules in the Marvel comics format. Here, Hercules is much more frivolous, ready for beer or brawl and so on. One of the things that the writers have stressed in the comics (sometimes subtlely and sometimes in beat-you-over-the-head manner) is how the immortal greek gods keep making the same mistakes again and again. Reason being they don't "need" to grow up. They are immortal, nothing hurts them and they can just keep going on and on. What's the point of "learning life's lessons" or "growing up" if you're immortal? I think Aphrodite's character in XenaWP and HercTLJ had a little bit of that to it. She was cheerfully spoilt and self-serving with an attitude of "why not?". I found her endearingly cute and tiresome and attractive at the same time.

In other words, she was HOT!!

To weigh in on who's better - I think Kevin Sorbo's action sequences seriously lacked the visual jazz that Xena could bring to the thing. As Hercules, he had like 2-3 things that he would do to hit the baddies. Xena (possibly because Lucy had great natural aptitude and dancing ability) always tried to do more with their fight scenes. Xena series tended to be willing to go more extreme than Herc, I thought. There was a lot of Xena online fandom but the shows never were so involving that I wanted to join the online fandom for long. The dark arcs tho' did get me hungering for what happens next.

Re - the Xena season finale, I didn't mind it as much as the other fans. It was visually stunning (another thing that I'd say Xena did better than Herc was the visuals - I particularly remember the ones where some characters are crucified in the snow (to be vague and non-spoilery) ). I think over the years they had shown Xena's "Evil" nature prior to her conversion to Good and she had enjoyed killing far too much. A reckoning was needed - while many eps had a reckoning even prior to this one, I was fine with the direction the ep took. And I liked the fact that the torch gets passed and so on.

Of course, what that ep needed was Joxer!

Just kidding...
 
I awlays admired the effects work on Xena. Not necesarily the quality, because it varied from "astonishing" to "oh come now," but the fact they never, ever, shied away from effects.

I say this because at roughly the same time, the various Star Trek series seemed to be cutting back as much as possible on effects - closing the side windows on runabouts to avoid animating starfields; having any scene in a room with a window shot while the ship was at sublight for the same reason; using squibs for phaser hits instead of a visual effect like disintegrating; using TV screens for displays instead of simulated 3D holos...
 
I awlays admired the effects work on Xena. Not necesarily the quality, because it varied from "astonishing" to "oh come now," but the fact they never, ever, shied away from effects.


And action and wild humor. That was the great thing about XENA. It never held back, to the extent that it made most other tv shows look staid by comparison.

Once, while watching a particularly slow-moving episode of VOYAGER, I admit that I complained aloud:

"You know, Xena would have killed ten people by now . . . ."
 
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My other favourite supporting cast babe was that recurring character (forgot her name) who liked dancing and first showed up wanting to get rid of Gabrielle and be Xena's new sidekick.

I don't remember the character's name, but I remember she was played by Shiri Appleby, who went on to star in Roswell. But I thought she was only in two episodes, the second being the abysmal "Lyre, Lyre" musical discussed above.


Yeah that always struck me as odd. Instead of kinda going full circle with the series they set it in... Japan? I mean sure it was cool and all but the fact that they did what they did to Xena and just ended it there. Annoying.

The thing is, Herc and Xena, especially the latter, were heavily inspired by Hong Kong cinema, with the action sequences often being homages to ones from Hong Kong films. The finale was pretty much an extended homage to a particular film whose leading lady was a major inspiration for Xena. Since it was the end of the series, I guess they decided to make the homage really overt and practically remake the movie. Though maybe that was too inside for the viewers to appreciate.
 
I never understood the riot in the fandom about the way Xena ended. I always thought it was a perfect ending for both, the series and the characters of Xena and Gabrielle.
 
Well, like I said, the show tended to fluctuate between joyful and dead serious and it's obvious which tone they took for the finale. Pretty much the latter entirely.

I think it would have been much better for the series to end on a lighter note or if they had to be so serious, at least throw in some humour and a more uplifting ending than what we got. It was just so humourless, downbeat, boring, and depressing that I found it a total drag to watch.

And Christopher, IMDB says Shiri appeared as "Tara" in just two episodes: the ones I mentioned - the one where she's introduced as a Xena sidekick wannabe, and the very musical episode (not "Lyre") where there's a lot of dancing going on. I think those are two of the best episodes and they each demonstrate the show's strengths both as straight drama and as comedy.
 
Shiri Appleby appeared as Tara in the 3rd season episode "Forgiven" and the 4th season episode "A Tale of Two Muses".

Now regarding the series ender - Rob Tapert meant it as a series ender not a story ender. There was some agreement that they would continue with a few tv movies. However, the people at the studios that Tapert worked with were let go and the first run syndication market shrunk. Tapert then tried for a theatrical film. Universal wasn't interested but would not sell him the rights so that he could find some other studio to work on it.

Maria
 
I think it would have been much better for the series to end on a lighter note or if they had to be so serious, at least throw in some humour and a more uplifting ending than what we got. It was just so humourless, downbeat, boring, and depressing that I found it a total drag to watch.

I think they were going for EPIC - trying to make it moving and redemptive and .... I think the subject matter that they were depicting if dealt with humor would lessen the impact. I got the impact.

Btw, Christopher - What Japanese character/story is that ending based on?

Also - I think Xena going to China in the TV show was a major life-changing event for her and Xena going to Japan also ended up being a real Big deal.

In summary, unlike some other fans, the ending works for me as being Intense!Xena with the visual gloss and photography that I expect from the more dramatic episodes. And it does kinda bring closure to some things (being non-spoilery here).

Edit - Also re Herc/Xena - there was something more attractive with the Xena theme music than the Herc one. I still remember mouthing 'um-dum-tee, tum-dum-tee, Xeenaaaah" as the theme. T
 
Re the music: I've heard the cast and crew in interviews say that whenever they thought a scene might not be working, somebody would say "don't worry, Joe LoDuca will fix it with the music!"
 
Thanks Christopher.

Y'know - it might be fun to take another look at Xena nowadays.

Spartacus: Blood and Sand is supposed to start soon on Starz starring Lucy Lawless and I've heard there will be nekkid females in it, including a merkin-clad Lucy Lawless (!!) who may have a few topless scenes. (Apologies for the crass-ness but y'know you'll adore a nekkid Lucy Lawless)

{Edit - I am a little upset with my fellow TrekBBS members. I thought it would be their civic duty to apprise their fellow SFF geeks about this upcoming TV series, especially if there's a chance/rumor of seeing a nekkid Lucy Lawless! Somebody start a new thread please especially if the rumor is true. }
 
{Edit - I am a little upset with my fellow TrekBBS members. I thought it would be their civic duty to apprise their fellow SFF geeks about this upcoming TV series, especially if there's a chance/rumor of seeing a nekkid Lucy Lawless! Somebody start a new thread please especially if the rumor is true. }
Awesome. A new fantasy-ish series created by the excellent duo of Sam Raimi and Rob Tapert and starring Lucy Lawless. I can't believe I haven't heard of this before.
 
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