Should the Bajorans have fought against the Dominion?

[Robert DeSoto]

The Bajoran Militia probably has some of the best guerilla fighters in the quadrant. I'm sure the Jem'hadar invasion force would take control of Bajor quickly, but that's when the Militia's strenghts really come to play.

After they lose the planet, the surviving Bajoran Militia forces could engage in the same hit and run and terrorist attacks that forced the Cardassian troops to withdraw.

Of course there would still be massive Bajoran casualties. But think of how many Federation, Klingon and Romulan officers have died fighting for the freedom of the Alpha Quadrant. Is it right for the Bajorans to sit by while the Dominion invasion goes deeper and deeper into Federation space?

Using the experience from the Cardassian Occupation, the Bajoran Militia can inflict heavy casualties on an occupying Dominion force. Every Jem'hadar soldier sent to try and maintain control on Bajor is once less soldier that can sent into Federation space. Think of how many Federation planets fell to the Dominion while the Bajorans sat by and did nothing.

Even if the Bajorans did not fight right away, after the Dominion reinforcements were destroyed by the Prophets, the Dominion never made any further attacks on Deep Space Nine. At this point, they could've sent some Bajoran Militia Troops to the front lines. The Militia's warships might not be any help, but the average Bajoran soldier probalby has a great deal more experience in ground combat (particularly against Cardassians) than your average Starfleet security officer (e.g. the "children" that replaced the ground forces at AR-558)

 

[Timo]

I don't really see the benefit of fighting the Jem'Hadar in ground warfare. You don't get rid of the Jem'Hadar by killing them, because new ones can be made at the drop of a vat. And there's no point in first giving your territory to them, then trying to take it back, because you'll never get it back. All you end up doing is destroying your own resources and your own people.

You aren't even tying down any Jem'Hadar resources. The Dominion can spare a certain number of Jem'Hadar warriors for the task of fighting the Bajoran guerillas. If the Dominion feels it is dedicating too many troops for that task, it stops doing so, and simply destroys Bajor. It has no use for Bajor as such, after all.

Also, if the Bajorans are any good at guerilla warfare, they know the most important thing about guerilla warfare: when and where NOT to fight. Bajor is the one place where guerilla war cannot be waged, because such war depends on striking the enemy where he is weak. And the Dominion would never be weak on Bajor, the world closest to their resupply point.

If some sort of a perverse moral code really required the Bajorans to die in numbers suitably relating to those of UFP deaths, then the Bajorans could set up sacrificial altars in their temples and go kill themselves there. That would be far more efficient and just as effective.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DevilEyes]

Only if they were masochists and wanted their planet to be occupied by Cardassians again this time as a part of a much stronger and more formidable force.

Dukat was aching to reclaim Bajor, Bajor's non-aggression pact with Dominion was the only thing that kept it from that fate. In hindsight, Sisko's vision in Rapture really saved Bajor, by postponing its entrance into the Federation.

If some sort of a perverse moral code really required the Bajorans to die in numbers suitably relating to those of UFP deaths, then the Bajorans could set up sacrificial altars in their temples and go kill themselves there. That would be far more efficient and just as effective.

Timo Saloniemi

Pretty much.

 

[Photon]

Yep, w/those mighty fighters they used before the cardies came in, they would last blow in the jem'hadar's plasma trail.

Also kinda hard to fight a guerilla war against an enemy that can cloak their beings.

 

[Kai Winn]

looks like desoto wants to sacrifice a pawn.

 

[snakespeare]

Remember that argument between Dukat and Weyoun, or rather Dukat's reaction when Weyoun suggested solving some problems by exterminating an entire species? Dukat told him that it's not enough to crush your enemies, you have bring them to their knees and make them admit that they are the inferior species, or some such.

Given that, of course guerilla tactics would eventually work to drive off the Cardies, but they will not work on the Dominion. If the Bajorans did as the OP suggested, the Dominion would just destroy the planet. Unlike the Cardassians, they have no need to plunder the natural resources of Bajor, and it would be much easier to exterminate them than to waste Jem'Hadar forces.

 

[Jono]

The Bajorans were prepared to stand against the Dominion and only Sisko's voice for them to sign a non-aggression pact changed that. Otherwise the Prophets forecasted doom with a slight chance of showers.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

For the Bajorans, right on the front lines as they were, to jump into a fight against a far superior foe, would have been absurdly suicidal of them. They did the right thing to hide in a hole while the big boys duked it out around them, secure knowing that if the Feds won, they'd be ok, and if they lost, they'd be no worse off for not having fought on the Fed side and perhaps better?

The really incomprehensible part of that whole sequence of events was the way Starfleet just meekly accepted a Starfleet officer (Sisko) acting against their best interests and advising the Bajorans to stay neutral, under the advice of some aliens of uncertain motivation and loyalties that claimed to be dieties.

Didn't it occur to anyone in Starfleet that the Prophets might have forged a secret alliance with the Dominion? Starfleet certainly couldn't be buying the notion that the Prophets are genuinely gods. I would have liked to see at least some push-back on Sisko's actions, even if ultimately Starfleet couldn't do much to override their rogue space station commander who's gotten in good with the natives.

 

[Kelso]

It only took 50 years to drive the Cardassians off of Bajor... the Dominion would have been easy pickings.

 

[Anwar]

It would have been suicide, the Dominion wouldn't have thought twice about just bombarding the planet to oblivion, or even using a bio-weapon on the Bajorans like the Blight.

 

[Myasishchev]

If some sort of a perverse moral code really required the Bajorans to die in numbers suitably relating to those of UFP deaths, then the Bajorans could set up sacrificial altars in their temples and go kill themselves there. That would be far more efficient and just as effective.

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I remember that episode. "A Taste of Bajorageddon."

 

[Timo]

'Xactly.

Didn't it occur to anyone in Starfleet that the Prophets might have forged a secret alliance with the Dominion?

Or that Sisko might have gone to the other side, more literally than just by flipping?

At the very least when it was revealed that the "Dr. Bashir" that had mucked around in Sisko's brain just moments before the Captain barged in to the meeting, ranting and raving about keeping the Bajorans from allying, had been a Changeling...

Starfleet certainly couldn't be buying the notion that the Prophets are genuinely gods.

Why not? Starfleet is quite familiar with gods. It might have reservations about taking the word of gods who say they know the future, but it would be resigned to the fact that there are gods who know the future.

I would have liked to see at least some push-back on Sisko's actions, even if ultimately Starfleet couldn't do much to override their rogue space station commander who's gotten in good with the natives.

I wonder what sort of push-back there could have been. Secret negotiations bypassing the Emissary, probably. Those could have been shown to the audience, but they could also have taken place even when not shown.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Kai Winn]

'Xactly.

Didn't it occur to anyone in Starfleet that the Prophets might have forged a secret alliance with the Dominion?

Or that Sisko might have gone to the other side, more literally than just by flipping?

At the very least when it was revealed that the "Dr. Bashir" that had mucked around in Sisko's brain just moments before the Captain barged in to the meeting, ranting and raving about keeping the Bajorans from allying, had been a Changeling...

yes, that's why the prophets safed a whole dominion fleet from harm when it faced the defiant. did it occur to you that the prophets and dominion coincidentally shared the same interest, bajor not joining the federation?
not that the backwater with a small population, no ships, and no economy worth to mention, which would probably not rival the most irrelevant federation planet, would have made a difference. the prophets didn't want it destroyed, the dominion didn't want to destroy it.

 

[Kira Nerys]

Bajor would have fallen immediately to the dominion .Who ever controls the wormhole can gain control of the Alpha Quardent.

 

[Damask]

The really incomprehensible part of that whole sequence of events was the way Starfleet just meekly accepted a Starfleet officer (Sisko) acting against their best interests and advising the Bajorans to stay neutral, under the advice of some aliens of uncertain motivation and loyalties that claimed to be dieties.

Bajor isn't a Federation planet though. They really had no say. Sisko also admitted to Winn that the Federation couldn't protect Bajor. Would it have been really in the Federations best interest to have them in the war?

Didn't it occur to anyone in Starfleet that the Prophets might have forged a secret alliance with the Dominion? Starfleet certainly couldn't be buying the notion that the Prophets are genuinely gods. I would have liked to see at least some push-back on Sisko's actions, even if ultimately Starfleet couldn't do much to override their rogue space station commander who's gotten in good with the natives.

If the Prophets had forged an alliance with the Dominion then there really isn't a whole lot the Federation could have done. They had no say whatsoever in anything that involved Bajor.

Hell just look at Season 7 when the Federation was practically siding with the Romulans against Bajor because the Romulans were more important to the war effort. Even after the Prophets had stopped the Dominion forces coming through the wormhole.

 

[Timo]

Bajor isn't a Federation planet though. They really had no say.

They'd have a say over Sisko's behavior, though. Why wasn't Sisko busted to Junior Crewman, No Class and sent to polish some outpost commander's medals for his antics? He apparently acted against Starfleet's interests - and by doing so, made himself useless as a Starfleet liaison to Bajor in the future, thus removing the only "protection" he had against Starfleet replacing him.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Damask]

Bajor isn't a Federation planet though. They really had no say.

They'd have a say over Sisko's behavior, though. Why wasn't Sisko busted to Junior Crewman, No Class and sent to polish some outpost commander's medals for his antics? He apparently acted against Starfleet's interests - and by doing so, made himself useless as a Starfleet liaison to Bajor in the future, thus removing the only "protection" he had against Starfleet replacing him.

Timo Saloniemi

Did he really act against Starfleets interest? Do we actually know that they wanted Bajor to fight against the Dominion. Why would they?

 

[Jono]

Bajor isn't a Federation planet though. They really had no say.

They'd have a say over Sisko's behavior, though. Why wasn't Sisko busted to Junior Crewman, No Class and sent to polish some outpost commander's medals for his antics? He apparently acted against Starfleet's interests - and by doing so, made himself useless as a Starfleet liaison to Bajor in the future, thus removing the only "protection" he had against Starfleet replacing him.

Timo Saloniemi

That doesn't change the fact he is seen as the Emissary to the Prophets and has immense pull over the course of Bajor. The Bajorans would likely still seek his advice no matter where he was. Moving him would also probably send a negative message to the Bajorans and hamper future dealings.

 

[DevilEyes]

Bajor isn't a Federation planet though. They really had no say.

They'd have a say over Sisko's behavior, though. Why wasn't Sisko busted to Junior Crewman, No Class and sent to polish some outpost commander's medals for his antics? He apparently acted against Starfleet's interests - and by doing so, made himself useless as a Starfleet liaison to Bajor in the future, thus removing the only "protection" he had against Starfleet replacing him.

Timo Saloniemi

Because he's the Emissary for the Bajorans, and if the Federation officials want to have good relations with Bajor, they better be wise enough to keep Benjamin Sisko, the Emissary, as their liaison to the Bajorans. Being respected and trusted by Bajorans makes Sisko useful as a Starfleet liaison to Bajor. If the Starfleet did anything against Emissary, especially for showing that he really does have the interest of Bajor rather than just the Federation's interest at heart, you bet they'd be a backclash.

Besides, how exactly did Sisko hurt Federation interests or act against its values, again? I thought that Federation only wanted planets to join it when they are ready? And it was not the right moment for Bajor to join the Federation.

 

[Timo]

That doesn't change the fact he is seen as the Emissary to the Prophets and has immense pull over the course of Bajor. The Bajorans would likely still seek his advice no matter where he was. Moving him would also probably send a negative message to the Bajorans and hamper future dealings.

But Sisko has already ruined the relationships for good - he has sent the most negative message possible, "stay away from these Fed folks, your gods say they are no good for you". Yanking the doomsayer away at that point and stopping him from doing further damage would improve the UFP's hopes of getting the Bajoran membership at some point, once the current storm blows over. Letting him stay would diminish those hopes.

Bajor may trust Sisko, but Starfleet has no reason to trust Sisko now. They'd probably be better off assigning Kai Winn or perhaps Quark as their liaison...

Besides, how exactly did Sisko hurt Federation interests or act against its values, again? I thought that Federation only wanted planets to join it when they are ready? And it was not the right moment for Bajor to join the Federation.

Sisko put the Feds in a really bad jam here, as he essentially said "the joining is on hold until I say otherwise", even if the words coming out of his mouth spelled "until the Prophets say otherwise". If they yanked him out, he would never get the chance to say otherwise, so they're indeed stuck with him.

But Sisko isn't promoting Bajor's free choice to join or not to join. He's telling them not to join, or else. He's done an immense disservice to the UFP efforts to get Bajor's membership by promoting an agenda that need not have been promoted.

Timo Saloniemi