Should Americans be required to buy health insurance?

[Galactus]

I know that both of those are true. People won't call for help because they know they can't pay for it. I also know for a fact that insurance companies will always try not to pay claims, in fact that is a persons job. Even when you plan says that you are covered, you find out after the fact that you are not really covered.

Like I said let the fools get what they deserve. If they are listening to millionaires and billionaires telling them that they can pay their own way then let them. When you really think about that then it does boggle the mind.

 

[Arrqh]

Dad -- His insurance is refusing to pay a lot of his bill from his heart attack cause the surgeon used a more expensive type of stent after discarding a cheaper stent due to it not working. Their issue: the surgeon should have made the cheaper stent work, and why put one in anyway when it didn't cure the problem, why couldn't the heart attack be treated by none invasive means. Plus the fact that Dad (whose heart stopped litterally as he walked into the ER, and the nurse came out and told my mom to call the family minister if we had one cause it didn't look good as they were carrying him back trying to get his heart going again) didn't get pre authorization before having a invasive treatment.

Even with pre-authorization it can be dicey.

My dad has severe chronic pain in his feet. He's had it for decades, but as he's gotten older it's been more and more difficult for him to deal with. He goes to a pain specalist to help deal with it, usually with painkillers which of course have their downsides. So earlier this year, his specalist recommended a new-ish procedure that has some success in cases like him. They implant an electric pulse generator into his body that has a wire wrapped around his spine at the point where his feet pain nerves are hooking up. Sounds cool in theory.

Unfortunately, when the device was implanted there were complications during recovery. His post-op pain didn't go away like normal, the area around the incision got slightly infected and the device, which worked at first, stopped working. So after spending a few days in the hospital, his doctor recommended that they either reimplant the device in the front instead of the back of his upper leg (which is a risker surgery) or to just remove it entirely. He opted for the latter.

He insurance company said, ah ha! Since the device was removed then it clearly was elective. And therefore, despite having everything be preapproved, we will not pay. So he's been fighting with them for about half a year now and the fight is still going on for them to fulfill their contractual obligations that they agreed to.

 

[Roger Wilco]

He insurance company said, ah ha! Since the device was removed then it clearly was elective. And therefore, despite having everything be preapproved, we will not pay. So he's been fighting with them for about half a year now and the fight is still going on for them to fulfill their contractual obligations that they agreed to.

That's crazy. Whatever asshole made that decision should be put in fucking prison.

 

[SeerSGB]

My uncle's insurance is trying to get out of paying his doctors cause he died of cancer before completing his treatment. Their argument: The patient did not fulfill his obligation to follow treatment (re: early termination due to death) to completion. His sister (my aunt) is handling his estate, and she can't figure out how a dead man can "fulfill treatments".

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Everyone is free to agree or disagree as they like, the problem is that the Senate has that stupid filibuster rule that neither party will get rid of because they are all power crazy. This goes to all of the Senators, if they would just grown up and just let people vote honestly then we would have a good bill that would be good for the country. Instead you have to make all these deals with 6 people that are DINO's in Republican states. So yes it is the 100 Senators fault that we have this crappy bill. Unlike a lot of people here I hold them all accountable for this mess, but I hold the people more responsible. When people really want change they will get off their butts and get change, until then they deserve what they get. It is just too bad I and others like me have to suffer until then.

You and others like you? Are you uninsured? If so, you really think it's right that other people should pay for your insurance? Just asking how you would justify this if it's indeed the case.

Simple. As others have told you before which you continue to ignore. I can give you a Christian reason, a humanitarian reason, a business reason, a practical reason, how many would it take to convince you? Apparently there are none, which is why it was always pointless to negotiate with the other side in the first place. I don't want health insurance reform, I want health care reform.

Nice way of not answering my question as to whether you have a personal stake in this.

And a Christian reason doesn't fly, as that would entail giving from the heart, not having dollars ripped out of peoples pockets forcibly. That's not very Christian.

I can shoot down every other reason you might have as well. It's already been done.

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

 

[Marc]

You and others like you? Are you uninsured? If so, you really think it's right that other people should pay for your insurance? Just asking how you would justify this if it's indeed the case.

Simple. As others have told you before which you continue to ignore. I can give you a Christian reason, a humanitarian reason, a business reason, a practical reason, how many would it take to convince you? Apparently there are none, which is why it was always pointless to negotiate with the other side in the first place. I don't want health insurance reform, I want health care reform.

Nice way of not answering my question as to whether you have a personal stake in this.

And a Christian reason doesn't fly, as that would entail giving from the heart, not having dollars ripped out of peoples pockets forcibly. That's not very Christian.

I can shoot down every other reason you might have as well. It's already been done.

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

You mean people have shot down every rationale you've given.

Tell me - are you actually interesting in discussion or merely being a troll?

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Simple. As others have told you before which you continue to ignore. I can give you a Christian reason, a humanitarian reason, a business reason, a practical reason, how many would it take to convince you? Apparently there are none, which is why it was always pointless to negotiate with the other side in the first place. I don't want health insurance reform, I want health care reform.

Nice way of not answering my question as to whether you have a personal stake in this.

And a Christian reason doesn't fly, as that would entail giving from the heart, not having dollars ripped out of peoples pockets forcibly. That's not very Christian.

I can shoot down every other reason you might have as well. It's already been done.

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

You mean people have shot down every rationale you've given.

Tell me - are you actually interesting in discussion or merely being a troll?

See Marc, this is what happens when a person doesn't have a leg to stand on. Name calling. Nice job.

 

[datagal]

You and others like you? Are you uninsured? If so, you really think it's right that other people should pay for your insurance? Just asking how you would justify this if it's indeed the case.

Simple. As others have told you before which you continue to ignore. I can give you a Christian reason, a humanitarian reason, a business reason, a practical reason, how many would it take to convince you? Apparently there are none, which is why it was always pointless to negotiate with the other side in the first place. I don't want health insurance reform, I want health care reform.

Nice way of not answering my question as to whether you have a personal stake in this.

And a Christian reason doesn't fly, as that would entail giving from the heart, not having dollars ripped out of peoples pockets forcibly. That's not very Christian.

I can shoot down every other reason you might have as well. It's already been done.

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

In a way, he does have a stake. We all do.

But what happen when you can't provide for yourself? What then?

 

[Pingfah]

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

Then stop buying insurance and pay for everything out of pocket.

God damned socialists

 

[Arrqh]

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

As usual, you're completely sidelining the real issues: the factual lower standard of health in the US, the factual ballooning of costs of health care in the US and the factual number of people who are simply unable to get coverage through no fault of their own.

These are the issues. They are pragmatic issues with pragmatic solutions. And constantly trying to paint provable solutions to these problems as some sort of "theft" is dishonest, especially within the greater context of government spending.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

My rule? I don't expect others to pay my way. I'll provide for myself, thank you.

As usual, you're completely sidelining the real issues: the factual lower standard of health in the US, the factual ballooning of costs of health care in the US and the factual number of people who are simply unable to get coverage through no fault of their own.

These are the issues. They are pragmatic issues with pragmatic solutions. And constantly trying to paint provable solutions to these problems as some sort of "theft" is dishonest, especially within the greater context of government spending.

1. Maybe people should stop pounding down Big Macs every other meal and they'd live longer. It has a lot more to do with diet here than anything else. But you probably know that already.

The U.S. has the best doctors and hospitals in the world. But you probably already knew that too.

2. I never said health care costs don't need to be lowered. But funny how creating a government monstrosity and taxing people for YEARS before any program is fully operational seems to be the best solution the lefties can come up with...

3. I think any able-bodied adult should feel ashamed to take from someone else what is not theirs. That's what this government program accomplishes and it's simply wrong and immoral.

 

[Arrqh]

1. Maybe people should stop pounding down Big Macs every other meal and they'd live longer. It has a lot more to do with diet here than anything else. But you probably know that already.

I know that this isn't the primary issue... the discouragement of preventative care is.

The U.S. has the best doctors and hospitals in the world. But you probably already knew that too.

I know that the best doctors in the world is pointless if thousands of people can't afford access to them... including people who do have insurance.

2. I never said health care costs don't need to be lowered. But funny how creating a government monstrosity and taxing people for YEARS before any program is fully operational seems to be the best solution the lefties can come up with...

I know that this statement doesn't actually address any issues in a constructive way.

3. I think any able-bodied adult should feel ashamed to take from someone else what is not theirs. That's what this government program accomplishes and it's simply wrong and immoral.

I know that taxes are not immoral, social programs to help people who cannot help themselves are not immoral and that lowering costs for everyone is certainly not immoral.

 

[Misfit Toy]

I think any able-bodied adult should feel ashamed to take from someone else what is not theirs. That's what this government program accomplishes and it's simply wrong and immoral.

Bolding mine.

What is immoral is that you are want everyone to adhere to YOUR desires - regardless of the practicality of your "beliefs" or the reality of the situations of others. It's arrogant, unChristian and exceptionally selfish.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

1. Maybe people should stop pounding down Big Macs every other meal and they'd live longer. It has a lot more to do with diet here than anything else. But you probably know that already.

I know that this isn't the primary issue... the discouragement of preventative care is.

The U.S. has the best doctors and hospitals in the world. But you probably already knew that too.

I know that the best doctors in the world is pointless if thousands of people can't afford access to them... including people who do have insurance.

2. I never said health care costs don't need to be lowered. But funny how creating a government monstrosity and taxing people for YEARS before any program is fully operational seems to be the best solution the lefties can come up with...

I know that this statement doesn't actually address any issues in a constructive way.

3. I think any able-bodied adult should feel ashamed to take from someone else what is not theirs. That's what this government program accomplishes and it's simply wrong and immoral.

I know that taxes are not immoral, social programs to help people who cannot help themselves are not immoral and that lowering costs for everyone is certainly not immoral.

Discouragement? Is there ANYTHING that you actually ask the individual to be responsible for? ANYTHING? Or are people entitled from cradle to grave? It's a serious question...

 

[Misfit Toy]

Discouragement? Is there ANYTHING that you actually ask the individual to be responsible for? ANYTHING? Or are people entitled from cradle to grave? It's a serious question...

We're not talking about ANYTHING, as much as you'd like to sidestep. We're talking about healthcare. Yes. Healthcare, from cradle to grave.

 

[Arrqh]

Discouragement? Is there ANYTHING that you actually ask the individual to be responsible for? ANYTHING? Or are people entitled from cradle to grave? It's a serious question...

Discouragement from preventative care is implicit in a system where people have to fight for reimbursement to even see a doctor. People in countries with UHC have easy access to preventative care, their standard of health is higher and their overall costs are lower. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Once again, you are completely side stepping the actual issues. This has nothing to do with individuals, this has to do with the total failure of the health insurance industry to actually provide affordable care for people.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

I think any able-bodied adult should feel ashamed to take from someone else what is not theirs. That's what this government program accomplishes and it's simply wrong and immoral.

Bolding mine.

What is immoral is that you are want everyone to adhere to YOUR desires - regardless of the practicality of your "beliefs" or the reality of the situations of others. It's arrogant, unChristian and exceptionally selfish.

Sorry, but I don't believe in forced charity. However, I'll leave open the possibility that if I were the beneficiary of forced charity, perhaps I would.

 

[Misfit Toy]

Sorry, but I don't believe in forced charity.

I take it you oppose tithing.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Discouragement? Is there ANYTHING that you actually ask the individual to be responsible for? ANYTHING? Or are people entitled from cradle to grave? It's a serious question...

Discouragement from preventative care is implicit in a system where people have to fight for reimbursement to even see a doctor. People in countries with UHC have easy access to preventative care, their standard of health is higher and their overall costs are lower. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Once again, you are completely side stepping the actual issues. This has nothing to do with individuals, this has to do with the total failure of the health insurance industry to actually provide affordable care for people.

No, it's about both the individual and the insurance industry. Both need to be held responsible.

 

[Arrqh]

Discouragement? Is there ANYTHING that you actually ask the individual to be responsible for? ANYTHING? Or are people entitled from cradle to grave? It's a serious question...

Discouragement from preventative care is implicit in a system where people have to fight for reimbursement to even see a doctor. People in countries with UHC have easy access to preventative care, their standard of health is higher and their overall costs are lower. Do you think this is a coincidence?

Once again, you are completely side stepping the actual issues. This has nothing to do with individuals, this has to do with the total failure of the health insurance industry to actually provide affordable care for people.

No, it's about both the individual and the insurance industry. Both need to be held responsible.

You are ignoring facts to keep shoehorning in "individual responsibility." Every time you use the words their emptiness is magnified because you clearly don't understand what any of this actually means and the implication it has for the system as a whole.

Very clearly now: the US health insurance industry makes getting preventative care significantly harder then in countries with UHC. US citizens have to fight to pay more money and people in countries with UHC do not have to fight and pay less money. This is one of the primary reasons that the US has to spend so much on care and why the population is less healthy then other countries. Can you actually address these facts, or would you like to keep throwing up a smoke screen?