James Cameron's "Avatar" (grading and discussion)
- Thread starter chrisspringob
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Wow, this is some funny sh*t!!!
"Avatar: The Making of the Bootleg"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thsc60UTUIE&feature=player_embedded
Brilliant.
I kept wondering about any loved ones Jake might have left behind back on Earth and if they ever find out what happened to him. Or maybe he was estranged from his family, except for his deceased brother.
Actually it seems he wasnt very close to his bro either, he didnt seem to broken up about is death.
Actually it seems he wasnt very close to his bro either, he didnt seem to broken up about is death.
That's funny, I always thought it was supposed to be entertaining. Silly me.
That's funny, I always thought it was supposed to be entertaining. Silly me.
Yes, silly you for not understanding what "one of the goals" means (as in not the only one; being entertaining is certainly another), for assuming that your narrow vision of what scifi should be is the only way it could possibly be entertaining, and for continuously taking the easy and unchallenging path in all things.
Oh come on... how difficult is it to understand....
the successfull brother the doctor brother the exobiologist brother versus the brother who was ONLY a broken marine.
depending on your family... its not hard to see why he didn't have any emotion for his brother or family. especially if they could put his doctor brother thru college but not give him the money to get his legs back.
Hey, the choice was easy.
Avatar body:
- You can walk.
- You can have sex with Neytiri.
Human body:
- Well, eh...
Why are people bitching about the name "unobtainium"? I thought it was one of the better jokes in the movie. 
Made even funnier by the fact that none of the characters notice it's funny.
Made even funnier by the fact that none of the characters notice it's funny.
I think for critics of the movie, "unobtanium" becomes a bit symbolic about the relative lack of creative effort spent on the story -- as opposed to the creative effort spent on the visuals. Cameron went to a great deal of effort ("Spared no expense," John Hammond might say) to create a wonderfully constructed and detailed world for Avatar. But the story itself is generic. And the word "unobtanium" (whether Cameron meant it as a joke or not) is the ultimate example of generic -- thus it can be seen as an example of how unoriginal the story was.
I definitely agree the story and the characters were weak, especially in comparison to the special effects. This is a sentiment shared by many of whom I know who have seen the film.
Generic would have been picking some rare Earth metal and using that, or just making up some random technobabble word.
Sure, you can say the joke didn't work for you, but it's not a sign that it was generic. I'd rather have an amusing name for a mineral than some fabricated word that means nothing.
The story was nothing new, and I'll give you that. It didn't have to be, either. It was well-done, coherent, characters had sensible arcs, and it was entertaining.
If you didn't enjoy it, or you went in expecting something other than what you got, I don't know what to tell you.
Sorry you wasted your money.
Sure, you can say the joke didn't work for you, but it's not a sign that it was generic. I'd rather have an amusing name for a mineral than some fabricated word that means nothing.
The story was nothing new, and I'll give you that. It didn't have to be, either. It was well-done, coherent, characters had sensible arcs, and it was entertaining.
If you didn't enjoy it, or you went in expecting something other than what you got, I don't know what to tell you.
Sorry you wasted your money.
Hey, I really enjoyed Avatar. I just didn't think the story was exactly that fresh or unique.
Of course it wasn't. It wasn't trying to be, either. They took a classic story and executed it well, and had it look really nice along the way.
The criticism movies like Transformers get is that the story makes no sense or is impossible to follow. It's not usually a lack of uniqueness that is the complaint.
Most movies, sci-fi or not, are not going to present you with some brand-new story you've never seen before.
I've gotten the impression from this thread that the real complaint here is a lack of moral complexity in the narrative. The good guys are good, the bad guys are bad, and that's pretty much all she wrote. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't want all my movies to be like that, but in this case it works.
I am probably a bad one to listen to, though, because I'll find something to enjoy in even the worst movies. I don't like to waste my money, and I don't get paid to hate movies, so going in expecting to be disappointed and annoyed seems counterproductive. I try to know what to expect going in, so I get exactly that.
The criticism movies like Transformers get is that the story makes no sense or is impossible to follow. It's not usually a lack of uniqueness that is the complaint.
Most movies, sci-fi or not, are not going to present you with some brand-new story you've never seen before.
I've gotten the impression from this thread that the real complaint here is a lack of moral complexity in the narrative. The good guys are good, the bad guys are bad, and that's pretty much all she wrote. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I wouldn't want all my movies to be like that, but in this case it works.
I am probably a bad one to listen to, though, because I'll find something to enjoy in even the worst movies. I don't like to waste my money, and I don't get paid to hate movies, so going in expecting to be disappointed and annoyed seems counterproductive. I try to know what to expect going in, so I get exactly that.
Erm ... I really don't know how more generic you can get than "unobtanium" ... and if it's a joke, that's fine, but like I said, joke or not, it can still be seen as symbolic of a story that was given short-shrift over visuals.
You're being more than a bit presumptive here. You shouldn't be making this discussion about me but rather keep it focused on the ideas about the film. As a point of fact, Avatar was about what I expected: great visuals, so-so story. And I was quite entertained by the film (I've seen it twice -- first in 3D and again in 2D) and believe it was money well-spent.If you didn't enjoy it, or you went in expecting something other than what you got, I don't know what to tell you.
But that doesn't change the fact that the story was generic -- moreso than it should have been. And it doesn't change the fact that people *can* use "unobtanium" as a symbol of the disparate levels of creativity (for visuals as opposed to story) in the film.
It why I believe the movie in the long run will not be seen as that great a movie. The lack of effort to make the story a touching one that grips the audience and makes you care about the characters is very telling.
When people ask me at work, church the gym about the movie, and they do cause they know I'm their 'movie guy', I describe Avatar like Showgirls.
The hype for Showgirls was OMG guess who's tits are all over the place and not only hers in this movie. Avatar is all 'OMG Cameron is back with out of this world blow your mind F/X'. Both movies give you lots of both. Lots of TITS. Lots of trippy F/X with colors and light. An hour into both movies I want Elizabeth Berkely to just put a damn shirt on and I'm cheering on the flamethrowers. Tell me a story James I can care about cause I've seen all the cool flowers and trees I can take.
Avatar, overrated and that will bear out in the years ahead.
Star Trek had a better story
Moon had a better story
District 9 had a beter story
Terminator Salvation had a better story.
Avatar will win the battle of B.O. take over them all and that is just sad.
The only sci-fi movie plot that Avatar is better at even given its cliches is TF:Revenge of the Fallen for 2009 sci-fi flicks.
RobertScorpio
Pariah
In your opinion...
Because, in my opinion, Salvation was a terrible movie and Avatar, even with its "Dances with Wolves" story was still better....
District 9 is, I think, over-rated and Moon was, well, what it was...
And I also disagree with you about the characters. Yes, the plot wasn't new..BUT..I saw it with a jam-packed IMAX crowd and I thought the acting and the FX made up for the thin plot...
AVATAR...Great FX/Great acting and characters...not so great plot..but still an overall better movie than any of the movies you listed...except Star Trek. I think Star Trek was the better movie...
Rob
S
Stone_Cold_Sisko
Guest
Check out CHUD's front page. They found a copy of James Cameron's original detailed scriptment for "Project 880" (that eventually became Avatar).
There's a ton of detail there. The original story was far more fleshed out in both world, story, and character. I wished he'd left some of this stuff in:
http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html
There's a ton of detail there. The original story was far more fleshed out in both world, story, and character. I wished he'd left some of this stuff in:
http://chud.com/articles/articles/21969/1/PROJECT-880-THE-AVATAR-THAT-ALMOST-WAS/Page1.html
DontFeedPhil
Fleet Captain
Whats the difference with IMAX 3-d and just 3-d?
Finally saw it last Friday, and I thought it was pretty freakin incredible. Although I have to admit I was so distracted and in awe of the awesome 3D, CGI, design work, and cool Aliens-style tech that I had a hard time getting fully drawn into the story. Hopefully that'll be easier to do on a second viewing.
As for the storyline, the only time it started to feel too familiar and cliched was when Jake first enters the Nav'i camp and encounters all the same Native American characters we've seen before. Cameron definitely could have shaken things up a bit there (and perhaps made the Nav'i behave a little more, well... alien). But otherwise I had no real problem with the story. I thought it's simplicity was somehow fitting given the backdrop, and given the theme of the movie.
And Jake was such a likeable and simple and honest guy that I didn't really mind the lack of any moral complexity; it just made sense that he would go with his gut and side with the Nav'i the way he did (and it's not like we didn't see him questioning himself beforehand, after all).
Overall I thought it was a pretty amazing experience. And my god, that final battle was absolutely badass. The showdown between Jake and the Colonel was gripping as hell, and could not have been choreographed any better.
Frankly I don't know why people here aren't geeking out more about this movie. Because as far as I'm concerned, there's a LOT to geek out about.
As for the storyline, the only time it started to feel too familiar and cliched was when Jake first enters the Nav'i camp and encounters all the same Native American characters we've seen before. Cameron definitely could have shaken things up a bit there (and perhaps made the Nav'i behave a little more, well... alien). But otherwise I had no real problem with the story. I thought it's simplicity was somehow fitting given the backdrop, and given the theme of the movie.
And Jake was such a likeable and simple and honest guy that I didn't really mind the lack of any moral complexity; it just made sense that he would go with his gut and side with the Nav'i the way he did (and it's not like we didn't see him questioning himself beforehand, after all).
Overall I thought it was a pretty amazing experience. And my god, that final battle was absolutely badass. The showdown between Jake and the Colonel was gripping as hell, and could not have been choreographed any better.
Frankly I don't know why people here aren't geeking out more about this movie. Because as far as I'm concerned, there's a LOT to geek out about.