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The End Of Time Part 1 - Comment & Grading SPOILERS

Since the Time War was "locked", maybe changing what happened there, or voiding it altogether, won't have any effect on any other events.
 
well we already know the Time War has been unlocked by Dalek Cann, hence Davros. Ive always had a theory that Dalek Cann unlocking the Time War has left the Time War starting to leak out into time & space again.
 
well we already know the Time War has been unlocked by Dalek Cann, hence Davros. Ive always had a theory that Dalek Cann unlocking the Time War has left the Time War starting to leak out into time & space again.
I've likened the Time Lock to a dam in the river of time.

We've seen cracks in the dam over the past few years. The stuff around the GameStation in the first season, the Doctor ending Harriet Jones' Golden Age, the Master's year. Things that were supposed to happen didn't. Things that weren't supposed to happen did. The dam was starting to leak.

Dalek-Caan went and put a giant fist through the dam. History is coming through that shouldn't.

This also makes Lance Parkin incredibly prescient; see The Eyeless.
 
well we already know the Time War has been unlocked by Dalek Cann, hence Davros. Ive always had a theory that Dalek Cann unlocking the Time War has left the Time War starting to leak out into time & space again.
I've likened the Time Lock to a dam in the river of time.

We've seen cracks in the dam over the past few years. The stuff around the GameStation in the first season, the Doctor ending Harriet Jones' Golden Age, the Master's year. Things that were supposed to happen didn't. Things that weren't supposed to happen did. The dam was starting to leak.

Dalek-Caan went and put a giant fist through the dam. History is coming through that shouldn't.

This also makes Lance Parkin incredibly prescient; see The Eyeless.

Maybe that's why what the Doctor did in Waters of Mars is so significant...his screwing with a fixed point in time was the final straw in breaking that dam wide open...
 
So, do you think we'll see Daleks in the finale on New Year's Day?
possibly I dont know, the question is, did some Time Lords (maybe who saw the Time War differently to others) manage to escape at that point, possibly closing the Time War after them.

Also in the NSA book: Prisoner of the Daleks, the Doctor manages to go back, before the Time War. It was not that clear how he did it, but he did.
 
well we already know the Time War has been unlocked by Dalek Cann, hence Davros. Ive always had a theory that Dalek Cann unlocking the Time War has left the Time War starting to leak out into time & space again.

He "broke" the time lock. Do you think that's the same as unlocking the whole thing?
 
The resurrection scene sent off a sort of old Who vibe to me. I've just been watching a lot of old episodes (season 4) and so I didn't even blink an eye when they tried to resurrect the Master with some potions in a dreary old building, although the thought occurred to me that this was weird and would surely cause some controversy. But after hearing the nonsensical backstory of the Cybermen in "The Tenth Planet" or following the ridiculous story of "The Underwater Menace", I felt it fit right in and made some sense. Obviously, the ring is some piece of sophisticated technology, which requires something else in order to release the stored essence of the Master, which is provided by whatever they pour into the cauldron. The Timelords are well known for being able to manipulate life and death up to some point. Any technology sophisticated enough will seem like magic to those less advanced (i.e. us). For people who are so ready to accept concepts like the regeneration it seems odd to get worked up over this.
And while I've never seen the Doctor Who movie from 1996, it does sound as if the Master does do equally weird things there.

If we want an in-universe explanation for the Master's resurrection, the ceremony was reminiscent of the Black Magic ceremony that resurrected the Fendahl in, ah, Image of the Fendahl (and I think there might even have been a line in common: "This is not how it should be!!")
Add in that the books say that the Time Lords tried to get hold of the Fendahl for use as a war weapon during the (first) time war, and you've got enough fanon to argue that this is something Fendahl-derived that the Time Lords started to use when regeneration wasn't enough during the War.
 
All I can say is, to me, the Time Lords are like the legend of Atlantis -- only interesting 'cause they're dead and gone. The Doctor is the last of the Atlanteans.

Pretty much. I don't give a flying fuck about the Time Lords and their shitty fashion sense.

I also don't care whether there's a reset button or any similar such thing, as long as the next episode is an entertaining one.

The only sense in which a "reset" might be annoying is that we're apparently about to get a brand new toy TARDIS and Forehead Boy as the Doctor.
 
Timby...I don't think the Doctor has moped particular specifically about missing the Time Lords as much as he has missed his family and homeworld. I think he could care less about the Time Lords in general, he does miss his people though.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't the Doctor miss the Time Lords -- meaning, his species -- without missing his government and its elites?
 
So, do you think we'll see Daleks in the finale on New Year's Day?


Well from the preview clip they talk about the Daleks and we see crashed Dalek ships on Gallifry, there may be flashback also. That said, I don't think daleks will play any part in this story.
 
if there is any real division? They are after all a telepathic species that we don't know what sort of ties their communities have ethereally... And what the fuck is this suddenly about timelords being able to physically smell each other over vast distances? Which given what we know about animals, they'd tend to collect in particular odour clusters and treat unfamiliar smelling Timelords with wariness.

There's probably an "ism" in there somewhere.

Memories of the cat language from Red Dwarf too.

:)

Maybe that's why the Master had to have all that sex and PDAing with Lucy? To keep himself swathed inher human stench? Like in that movie Frequently asked Questions about Time Travel where they all caked themselves in giant-ant dung to avoid being a meal for the earths new foodchain toppers?

Arnold, mud, Predator too, kinda.
 
So, do you think we'll see Daleks in the finale on New Year's Day?


Well from the preview clip they talk about the Daleks and we see crashed Dalek ships on Gallifry, there may be flashback also. That said, I don't think daleks will play any part in this story.

There's no way that the Emperor hiding there out past Pluto is not going to see this all goin on, but hells the Emperor is ignoring the constant distress calls from the dalek being tortured in that Bunker, as well as the recent invasion, but he's not going to be ready to make his move for another 180,000 years.

Baring daleks, what I would like to see is some of those Arks from Doomsday. Just hundreds of them. Oh goodness. please don't have it that the only way that the Doctor has to save creation from the Timelords is to open a few hundred genesis arks?
 
if there is any real division? They are after all a telepathic species that we don't know what sort of ties their communities have ethereally... And what the fuck is this suddenly about timelords being able to physically smell each other over vast distances? Which given what we know about animals, they'd tend to collect in particular odour clusters and treat unfamiliar smelling Timelords with wariness.
I didn't think they were literally smelling each other-- it's the ability of one Time Lord to sense another that was established back in "The Sound of Drums".
 
if there is any real division? They are after all a telepathic species that we don't know what sort of ties their communities have ethereally... And what the fuck is this suddenly about timelords being able to physically smell each other over vast distances? Which given what we know about animals, they'd tend to collect in particular odour clusters and treat unfamiliar smelling Timelords with wariness.
I didn't think they were literally smelling each other-- it's the ability of one Time Lord to sense another that was established back in "The Sound of Drums".

Actually, it was established as long ago as "The End of the World."
 
The episode would have made a lot more sense if Naismith had been the one to bring back the Master. Instead, it's simply a horribly convenient coincidence that the Master got access to the Immortality Gate. He didn't have a grand plan -- he just came up with the 'Master race' idea during the five minutes he was working on it.

Really, this was just such a horribly disjointed episode. Outside of the coffeehouse scene, the conversation in the quarry and a few bits here and there ("Skeletor," the "cactus" line, Donna being Donna), there wasn't a whole lot to like. The Master as Gollum is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen all year -- and I saw Angels & Demons in the theater. The whole episode felt like it was a series of scenes put one after the other, with no connection, incredibly amateurish. This was a preliminary draft script that somehow made it all the way through to filming, and God only knows who edited it together.

Really, it feels like Davies wrote about an episode and a quarter of plot, and is stretching it across two hour-plus specials.

Honestly, this kinda sums up my thoughts. Individually, the scenes don't bother me so much. They're nothing that the show hasn't done before in some form. It's just that, together, they don't resonate much.

Except changing everyone into the Master. That just brings Matrix sequel vibes and that can't be good. I just don't see the point. The Master accomplished a lot in one second, but now what's he going to do? Live in a Master-filled utopia? It felt too sudden and out there to be a good scheme.

I'm not really thrilled with how it was presented or what it set up, but I'm giving the second part a chance, of course. The weird thing is part of me wishes they'd reset much of this setup within the first five minutes and actually come up with a good plot. However, the rest of me would view that as a big cop out. So it's lose lose either way.
 
if there is any real division? They are after all a telepathic species that we don't know what sort of ties their communities have ethereally... And what the fuck is this suddenly about timelords being able to physically smell each other over vast distances? Which given what we know about animals, they'd tend to collect in particular odour clusters and treat unfamiliar smelling Timelords with wariness.
I didn't think they were literally smelling each other-- it's the ability of one Time Lord to sense another that was established back in "The Sound of Drums".

Being able to sense or know, sounds telepathic, I was all onboard with that, but they were SNIFFING! Both of them. If this is a real talent, it also makes sense now how easily the Doctor disguised himself as human for his final encounter with the family of blood, which he referred to as a simple trick.

Besides, what better id than odour could there be to see though regeneration that the same person is the same person?

MY GODS!

The Timelords, they must have already invented smellovision!
 
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