How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS ...

[Sector 7]

Have you ever actually watched DS9?

I am not, nor shall I ever be a soap opera watcher... therefore I am not a Niner either. Since joining TrekBBS I have tried watching DS9. I can only take it in small doses.

In other words, you are not, nor shall ever be a watcher of continuing drama series with character development and no reset button? Too bad you won't ever be a watcher of such soap operas as DS9, or BSG, or The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Mad Men, etc. Stick to your episodic TV, but it's your loss.

I have never considered having a real life a loss. I pity you. Must you insult someone who does not share your passion for long, drawn out soap operas wherein if an episode or two is missed one must wait for the reruns for it to make sense?

IDIC (Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combination), in plain terms it means "different strokes for different folks". I do not ridicule others for their preferences, however I do pity their narrow minds which cannot make room for varying opinions. May we now return to the original, pleasant discussion in which varying opinions of "How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS..." are shared?

 

[DevilEyes]

I am not, nor shall I ever be a soap opera watcher... therefore I am not a Niner either. Since joining TrekBBS I have tried watching DS9. I can only take it in small doses.

In other words, you are not, nor shall ever be a watcher of continuing drama series with character development and no reset button? Too bad you won't ever be a watcher of such soap operas as DS9, or BSG, or The Sopranos, Six Feet Under, Deadwood, Mad Men, etc. Stick to your episodic TV, but it's your loss.

I have never considered having a real life a loss.

And that is relevant to the discussion, how?

I pity you.

What for?

Must you insult someone who does not share your passion for long, drawn out soap operas wherein if an episode or two is missed one must wait for the reruns for it to make sense?

No, I don't have to, so I don't. Unless you think that saying it is your loss if you aren't missing on a bunch of quality shows - mostly superior to the episodic TV IMO.

...wherein if an episode or two is missed one must wait for the reruns for it to make sense?

Can I break a piece of news to you? There is a place where you can find and download pretty much every episode of every show. It is this thing called Internet.

... Oh wait, we're on it right now.

 

[buckeyenation]

brannon braga and ronald d moore, on the audio commentary track of 'first contact' that something drastic had to be done to revitalize the trek franchise, such as wiping the slate clean such as the superman comics did. so, any minor complaints aside, the new movie (which i have watched several times) seems to have done this sucessfully. and remember, haters of the new movie....can't make an omlette without breaking at least a few eggs

 

[Sector 7]

brannon braga and ronald d moore, on the audio commentary track of 'first contact' that something drastic had to be done to revitalize the trek franchise, such as wiping the slate clean such as the superman comics did. so, any minor complaints aside, the new movie (which i have watched several times) seems to have done this sucessfully. and remember, haters of the new movie....can't make an omlette without breaking at least a few eggs

QFT! I am old enough to remember the complaints about TMP being too different, irreverent, abandoning what came before, etc.

Then it was TNG with all the same complaints.

It is almost laughable when they complain about the new movie the same way... as if they are the first ones to complain about a new incarnation of Star Trek.

 

[The Wormhole]

brannon braga and ronald d moore, on the audio commentary track of 'first contact' that something drastic had to be done to revitalize the trek franchise, such as wiping the slate clean such as the superman comics did. so, any minor complaints aside, the new movie (which i have watched several times) seems to have done this sucessfully. and remember, haters of the new movie....can't make an omlette without breaking at least a few eggs

I actually have no problem with a clean slate. Just make sure you clean the whole slate.

Trek XI fails at starting over simply because they tried holding onto the old stuff by actually acknowledging this was an alternate timeline to what came before and by having Nimoy Spock.

A Trek fan can figure out this was an alternate timeline, and a new fan wouldn't care. And as nice as it was to see Nimoy as Spock one more time, he wasn't really crucial to the film.

 

[Anwar]

In other words, you are not, nor shall ever be a watcher of continuing drama series with character development and no reset button?

No, it means he just doesn't think DS9 is God's gift to Television. Deal with it.

 

[Guardian Bob]

ENT S4 was getting close to the spirit of TOS. The other seasons were too dreadfully written to remind me of anything but the bad episodes of TOS (which, granted, were about a third of the total).

TOS, DS9 and S4 of ENT is the Trek I want: wild, fun, serious, colorful characters, not afraid to deal with consequences or the messiness of the cosmos, competently written by people who can generally remember the content of previous episodes.

Yeah, I agree completely.

 

[DevilEyes]

In other words, you are not, nor shall ever be a watcher of continuing drama series with character development and no reset button?

No, it means he just doesn't think DS9 is God's gift to Television. Deal with it.

No, it does not.

I am not, nor shall I ever be a soap opera watcher... therefore I am not a Niner either.

... can only one thing, and that is what I spelled out above. Deal with it. Or provide some other definition of "soap opera" that fits DS9.

Now, if he said something like "I don't think DS9 is so great as some people here make it out to be", that might be translated as "he just doesn't think DS9 is God's gift to TV". But what he actually said? Nope.

Unless neither you nor Sector have got the slightest clue what "soap opera" means, and he was just using it to take a cheap shot at DS9, because he kinda sorta got the impression that it's some sort of an offensive word to use to put down TV shows and try to insult their fans. At least that's how many people seem to use it.

Yeah, Anwar, I know you like to jump at every possible occasion to diss DS9, but let's not deny what is actually posted for everyone to see. OK?

 

[Anwar]

Yeah, Anwar, I know you like to jump at every possible occasion to diss DS9, but let's not deny what is actually posted for everyone to see. OK?

I'm not denying anything, I'm just telling you to get over him not liking DS9. So he used the term "soap opera" in conjunction with DS9, he's got freedom of speech.

Yeah, EE, I know you like to jump at every poster who doesn't like DS9 and says so, but let's not deny what is actually posted for everyone to see. OK?

 

[DevilEyes]

I'm not denying anything, I'm just telling you to get over him not liking DS9. So he used the term "soap opera" in conjunction with DS9, he's got freedom of speech.

I don't need to "get over" him or anyone else not liking DS9. I commented on his statement that he had no interest in "soap operas", i.e. continuing drama serials. I've got freedom of speech as well, whether you like it or not.

Yeah, EE, I know you like to jump at every poster who doesn't like DS9 and says so, but let's not deny what is actually posted for everyone to see. OK?

Using my words against me would only work if ityou know, made sense in the context you used it. Otherwise it's just silly and pointless.

 

[Anwar]

I don't need to "get over" him or anyone else not liking DS9. I commented on his statement that he had no interest in "soap operas", i.e. continuing drama serials.

No, he didn't say anything that equated all serials with Soap Operas, just DS9. You're the one who blew it out of proportion. He never mentioned shows like Mad Men, Deadwood, etc. Yes he said he didn't like shows where you have to watch every episode, but he still didn't name names. You forced that in his mouth. Not everyone is into DS9's story style. Get over it. And there are serialized shows where you CAN miss a few episodes and not get lost, as well as episodic shows that can be just as engaging.

Using my words against me would only work if ityou know, made sense in the context you used it.

Good thing it did, then .

 

[DevilEyes]

I don't need to "get over" him or anyone else not liking DS9. I commented on his statement that he had no interest in "soap operas", i.e. continuing drama serials.

No, he didn't say anything that equated all serials with Soap Operas, just DS9. You're the one who blew it out of proportion. He never mentioned shows like Mad Men, Deadwood, etc.

Continuing drama serials. One of the definitions of "soap opera". Sector7 didn't say he disliked DS9 specifically, he said he "had no interest in soap operas", a category where he includes DS9. Those were his words.

Care to provide some other definition and elaborate how it would fit DS9? How exactly is DS9 a "soap opera" if not by virtue of being a continuing drama serial? (Well, to an extent - DS9 is far less serialized than any other of the shows I mentioned, which makes them more of continuing drama serials, or "soap operas", than DS9).

[Yes he said he didn't like shows where you have to watch every episode, but he still didn't name names. You forced that in his mouth.

Oh dear! How did I manage to do that? I hope it didn't hurt too much!

[ Not everyone is into DS9's story style. Get over it. And there are serialized shows where you CAN miss a few episodes and not get lost

True. DS9 is one of them. It had quite a few standalones even in later seasons. Unlike, say, Lost.

[

Using my words against me would only work if ityou know, made sense in the context you used it.

Good thing it did, then .

Yeah, right, whatever. If you like to believe so.

 

[Anwar]

Continuing drama serials. One of the definitions of "soap opera". Sector7 didn't say he disliked DS9 specifically, he said he "had no interest in soap operas", a category where he includes DS9. Those were his words.

He said he was not a "Soap Opera Watcher", which was being used as a derogatory slur that he associated DS9 with. Do you have any proof that he would consider shows like Kings, Deadwood, etc as exactly the same or are you just making a BS claim based on one sentence and blowing it up so as to say he must despise all those shows, without asking him his opinion on the matter? He could have his own reasons for enjoying those shows while still maintaining his opinion to DS9. Of course, you probably WON'T ask.

Care to provide some other definition and elaborate how it would fit DS9? How exactly is DS9 a "soap opera" if not by virtue of being a continuing drama serial?

"Soap Opera" has also been used as a derogatory slur against shows that are too melodramatic, too relationship-focused instead of focusing on character development and advancing the actual plot. You don't need to be a serial drama to have character development or lack of a reset button, that's simple arrogance towards non-serial shows.

Oh dear! How did I manage to do that?

By being your usual intolerant, arrogant self .

True. DS9 is one of them. It had quite a few standalones even in later seasons. Unlike, say, Lost.

Lousy ones, but then again that's usual DS9 standard for all episodes .

Yeah, right, whatever. If you like to believe so.

Not my fault you can't stand there being even one person out there who dislikes DS9.

 

[DevilEyes]

Continuing drama serials. One of the definitions of "soap opera". Sector7 didn't say he disliked DS9 specifically, he said he "had no interest in soap operas", a category where he includes DS9. Those were his words.

He said he was not a "Soap Opera Watcher", which was being used as a derogatory slur that he associated DS9 with. Do you have any proof that he would consider shows like Kings, Deadwood, etc as exactly the same or are you just making a BS claim based on one sentence and blowing it up so as to say he must despise all those shows, without asking him his opinion on the matter? He could have his own reasons for enjoying those shows while still maintaining his opinion to DS9. Of course, you probably WON'T ask.

Care to provide some other definition and elaborate how it would fit DS9? How exactly is DS9 a "soap opera" if not by virtue of being a continuing drama serial?

"Soap Opera" has also been used as a derogatory slur against shows that are too melodramatic, too relationship-focused instead of focusing on character development and advancing the actual plot.

Oh, so, in other words, you are arguing that he just used "soap opera" as a meaningless slur, which has absolutely nothing to do with what DS9 is actually like (since it should be obvious to anyone, even you, that DS9 had a lot more actual plot and character development than any other Star Trek show)?

Of course, until he answers, we won't know if you are just forcing words down his throat.

By being your usual intolerant, arrogant self .

Coming from you, I'm sure that this is the highest of all compliments. But I don't think I come anywhere near your standards of intolerance and arrogance. You've proven in the past that nobody can ever come even near to challenging you in that respect, so I won't even try.

 

[Anwar]

DS9 had a lot more actual plot and character development than any other Star Trek show)?

Eh, not really. At least not a particularly GOOD plot. And most characters didn't undergo THAT much development, random contrivances like Bashir's augmentation aside.

Of course, until he answers, we won't know if you are just forcing words down his throat.

Nor will we know if you are just forcing words either, until then we have stalemate.

Coming from you, I'm sure that this is the highest of all compliments. But I don't think I come anywhere near your standards of intolerance and arrogance.

Seeing how you helped set those standards...

...Nah, I'll lay off the personal stuff. That's not what this is about.

 

[CoveTom]

Oh good grief. Must every thread eventually devolve into this crap?

 

[Sector 7]

Oh good grief. Must every thread eventually devolve into this crap?

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

I tried to get back to the original topic, but to no avail. The OT was once upon a time called: "How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS..." Somehow it was derailed by a fanatic Niner along the way. I chose to stop responding to that person in hope of returning to the more pleasant discussion appropriate to a thread named "How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS".

 

[Alidar Jarok]

By being your usual intolerant, arrogant self .

Coming from you, I'm sure that this is the highest of all compliments. But I don't think I come anywhere near your standards of intolerance and arrogance. You've proven in the past that nobody can ever come even near to challenging you in that respect, so I won't even try.

Somehow it was derailed by a fanatic Niner along the way.

All of you cut out the bullshit right now. If you want to discuss this in a civil tone, that's fine, but all of this is crossing the line.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Well.. I actually think STXI is kind of close to the spirit of ENT. I would have thought ENT fans would really like STXI, though I don't know if that is the case (liking it more than, say, TNG fans).

It did have some great TOS themes which it lovingly recaptured. It will be interesting to see if they keep those themes up (which TOS did for 3 seasons) in STXII.

 

[DevilEyes]

Oh good grief. Must every thread eventually devolve into this crap?

"I try to get out, but they keep pulling me back in!"

I tried to get back to the original topic, but to no avail. The OT was once upon a time called: "How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS..." Somehow it was derailed by a fanatic Niner along the way. I chose to stop responding to that person in hope of returning to the more pleasant discussion appropriate to a thread named "How was XI closer to the spirit of TOS".

Or maybe it got derailed and turned into crap by a certain poster who introduced a silly statements such as "I have no interest in soap operas, so I have no interest in DS9" - and we still haven't been informed what this has to do with the spirit of TOS or with ST09?

And it's not like the thread got really derailed by a fanatic Niner-hater who is known for constant trolling of the DS9 forum and jumping at the throat at anyone who says anything positive about DS9 in any thread anywhere else, and has received numerous warnings about it. No, it's not his fault at all.

It was probably my mistake for answering to his crap, since I should know better,so I'll stop - and prevent it from ever happening again by finally putting Anwar on Ignore.

Please go back to the normal discussions, and please everyone refrain from any further ridiculous jabs at other shows that are not TOS nor ST09.