When Do the Writers Replace the Klingon D-7

[Nomad V]

I know this is a trivial question, but somebody has to ask, so why not me. For most of the commercial history of Trek the Klingon D-7 battlecruiser was the biggest adversary of the Constitution class starship. My question is this.... When does Star Trek canon replace that class of ships? I figure it has to be somewhere between the move ST-6, Undiscovered Country and the beginning of the Next Generation. Are there any indicators in books or anything else that is out there. Just curious and I'd like to know.

 

[Timo]

Current canon or aired material shows the first ships of that rough design in the year 2151 (ENT episode "Unexpected"), and the last in the year 2377 (VOY episode "Prophecy", although that ship is out of date and lost in space). The last ships seen fighting for the cause of the Klingon Empire are from the DS9 episode "What We Leave Behind"; a few are seen in the fleet that sails to Cardassia for the final battle in the war. That would be in 2375 or so.

The role of the ship may have changed with time, but she'd probably still be a good match for a Constitution class vessel in the 2370s if the two old-timers came face to face. The D-7 must have been some sort of an early and experimental design in ENT, as she never made a combat debut in the 2150s, only a menacing early appearance in a chance deep space encounter. We don't know when she replaced the D-5 as the badassest cruiser, or even whether she did - perhaps the so far unseen D-6 appeared in between. And as you say, we have no clear idea when the Klingons got something more powerful.

In theory, we could argue that the Klingons upgraded when Starfleet did. And Starfleet's first Excelsior goes active in the 2280s or 2290s, with at least one more coming on line in the 2290s. OTOH, Klingons jump out of the rat race with the Feds at that point, so perhaps they never develop an exact challenger. The Vor'Cha may be meant for something else altogether.

I'm sort of fond of the idea that the BoP design was indeed built in two sizes - the smaller ones appearing first - and that the larger size was something of a primary combatant in the years between TOS and TNG. The Klingons simply ceased to believe in face-to-face, one-on-one engagements between big "battleships" and instead adopted a "submarine warfare" doctrine for which swarms of the modestly sized BoPs were ideal.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[AdmiralGarak]

Ships of differing sizes using the basic Bird-of-Prey hull configuration is the norm for Klingons, and it seems that the same holds true for the D-7 as well. It fits with the Klingon devotion to preserving the tradition and history of the Empire.

 

[Timo]

...Or perhaps for copying old, tried and true Hur'q designs, out of fear that something indigenously Klingon would not work all that well.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

I loved the idea that the Vor'Cha used some Federation influence in the design as a result of the alliance. I think there's a DS9 episode where one goes into the Gamma Quadrant for some un-Klingon planetary surveys (though it was probably a scouting mission for potential conquests), suggesting it was more of a starship than a military-dominated battleship.

 

[The Wormhole]

The D-7 itself was probably phased out by the TOS movies, given from TMP onward we see K't'ingas.

And really, I would have preferred it if they used a D-7 in Unexpected in stead of a K't'inga. I can accept the D-7 was in service for 100 years, then they replaced it with the K't'inga. But instead, we have the K't'inga in service for 200 years?

 

[Zatoichi]

I suspect that the D7 wasn’t truly phased out until somewhere in early TNG or Undiscovered Country. A whole crud load of Klingon ships were appointed the D7 designation. A bunch of them were variants of sorts—Kor’s cruiser was considered a D7 of Kolodoe class—so they could have been very long lived. I’m guessing we’re just meant to assume Klingons are uncreative, vary their sense of aesthetics little, and then to use any other means to ignore what was probably just a problem of a small budget.

 

[Tomalak]

If you keep building new ones with updated technology, why shouldn't they last for 200 years? If the basic design is sound, why not?

 

[Timo]

The D-7 itself was probably phased out by the TOS movies, given from TMP onward we see K't'ingas.

Actually, the K't'inga probably is a D-7. Perhaps a D-7c or something like that, as opposed to the ENT ship being D-7 and the TOS ship being D-7b or something like that, but all these slightly different designs seem to come under the same D-7 designation.

Source: VOY episode "Prophecy", where a Klingon vessel identical in shape and detailing to the vessel seen from ST:TMP onwards is explicitly called a "D-7 class cruiser", and is said to have been retired "decades ago".

No doubt the D-7 design was upgraded several times during the two centuries of service, and probably no original 2150s hull survived till the 24th century. But the design apparently was good enough to see continuing frontline service until the mid-2300s, as per Tom Paris' "Prophecy" statement. And even after retirement, some of the ships were probably "current" enough to be recalled to service in the Klingon invasion of Cardassia and later in the Dominion War, where we saw several in action. Similarly, Starfleet probably reactivated old Mirandas after officially retiring the type from frontline combat use...

Tom Paris would of course not be aware of these reactivations, as he'd have left the Alpha Quadrant a year or so before the Klingon invasion of Cardassia. So no continuity hiccups there.

If you keep building new ones with updated technology, why shouldn't they last for 200 years? If the basic design is sound, why not?

In today's world, the reason for "why not?" would be "because the enemy keeps on improving". We can't build B-17 Flying Fortresses today, even though they are excellent carpet bombers, because they are also extremely vulnerable to today's anti-aircraft weapons.

However, in the world of Star Trek, this argument need not hold. Even if Starfleet in the 2370s builds ships that far outclass the D-7, it is possible that most of the enemies of the Klingon Empire build ships that are greatly inferior to the D-7. It would be foolish to dedicate unnecessarily great resources and build Vor'cha class vessels for use against all these primitive enemies, when one can use older, tried and true technology in some theaters and cutting edge tech in others.

One might argue that standardizing on a single type of technology would yield advantages - and then of course one would have to standardize on the latest tech. But this need not be true, either. Starfleet operates a really diverse fleet of several types, suggesting that there isn't any advantage to standardization after all. Perhaps future manufacturing techniques are not dependent on maintaining an expensive tooling set for each product type, and the production of D-7 can continue even if the original factories have long since been converted to daycare centers or landfills.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[FordSVT]

...Or perhaps for copying old, tried and true Hur'q designs, out of fear that something indigenously Klingon would not work all that well.

Timo Saloniemi

If it ain't broke don't fix it? I can see the appeal the ships have to the Klingons: menacing in appearance, minimalistic interiors, most likely easy to repair during and after battle.

It's like when Kira compared a Federation phaser rifle with a (was it Cardassian or Bajoran?) combat rifle. All the bells and whistles are nice but functionality and familiarity is nice too. The modern AK-47 would be another example: old as dirt but highly effective and robust in combat.

I'd also point out that while being an engineer or a scientist wasn't dishonourable, warriors do need weapons and ships, they also weren't likely the professions of choice for most teen-aged Klingons. I doubt their capacity to design and construct entirely new starship classes was up to par with the Federation or even the Romulans or Cardassians. Easier to just pump them out as needed with minor changes over the years. Maybe the Federation just likes the "new car smell" a lot more than other species. It may just be due to the the amount of exposure we get on the show, but it certainly seems that the Feds have WAY more main line starship classes than other races.

 

[buckeyenation]

the classic D-7 ship design is without question the coolest looking spaceship ever

 

[Voyagerian]

Well, whatever technical designation you want to give it, the basic design was still around at the time of the Dominion War-so, just like Starfleet's Excelsior, or Miranda Class ships, they stuck basically with what worked well in general superstructure and design, and had been proven, along with the BOP design, if having better warp drive or etc than their earlier-century counterparts.And yes, buckeyenation, the good old battlecruiser is also a favorite of mine...and the BOP,having models of both...(the old, old Ertl kit d-7)

 

[Timo]

Having ages-old ships in the front lines would be a nice nod to the classic "Klingons-as-Soviets" analogy, too: while the Soviet Navy wielded many pieces of cutting-edge hardware during the Cold War, it was also customary for them to run old rust buckets down to their last nautical mile, then turn them into stationary assets for as long as they floated, and then use the sunken wrecks for piers or practice targets. Scrapping was seldom an option, and "retirement" was unheard of...

Even after ENT, we still haven't learned how long the Klingons have been a starfaring culture. Perhaps they have been doing this stuff for a thousand years longer than the humans have? What the Feds call D-7 might be their fiftieth major starship type; the first types may only have lived for a few decades - but by "now", the Klingons would have got starship design down pat, and their ship generations would be two centuries long. The Feds are only slowly catching up, so that ships designed in the late 23rd century are finally starting to have lifespans of a century or so.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Tomalak]

If you keep building new ones with updated technology, why shouldn't they last for 200 years? If the basic design is sound, why not?

In today's world, the reason for "why not?" would be "because the enemy keeps on improving". We can't build B-17 Flying Fortresses today, even though they are excellent carpet bombers, because they are also extremely vulnerable to today's anti-aircraft weapons.

However, in the world of Star Trek, this argument need not hold. Even if Starfleet in the 2370s builds ships that far outclass the D-7, it is possible that most of the enemies of the Klingon Empire build ships that are greatly inferior to the D-7. It would be foolish to dedicate unnecessarily great resources and build Vor'cha class vessels for use against all these primitive enemies, when one can use older, tried and true technology in some theaters and cutting edge tech in others.

That's certainly true, but I was thinking more from the point of view that a "D7" in service in the Dominion War is to all intents and purposes totally different to one from TOS. If the ship is a sound design, why can't you keep building new ships with cutting edge weapons, better shields, more powerful engines, stronger sensors etc. It could be a completely different vessel save for the external appearance.

Why wouldn't that work? It's not as if you need to build more streamlined, aerodynamic ships in space.

It's obviously a basic design they like, given that the Vor'Cha and Negh'var are both basically pimped versions of it, in the same way that the Excelsior and the Sovereign are pimped variations of the Constitution.