Conjectural movie era uniforms

[MarianLH]

According to this, Fletcher's notes allow division heads to optionally wear the white turtleneck instead of their division color:

Command officers who are attached to particular division, such as Commander McCoy, as head of his division on shipboard, may wear white slashes on his green sleeve band and shoulder strap or white sleeve band and strap with green slashes. The shirt colour in these cases is a matter of personal discretion.

(empasis mine)

Case in point, Scotty. It's true he didn't start until he was promoted to captain, but Fletcher's example cited McCoy, who was only a commander, so presumably rank is not a factor.

It was the white turtleneck, combined with the gray slash on the sleeve band, that led me to infer that Saavik was Grissom's chief science officer. She could also be the XO, but the white turtleneck isn't conclusive. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest it.


Marian

 

[Data Holmes]

According to this, Fletcher's notes allow division heads to optionally wear the white turtleneck instead of their division color:

Command officers who are attached to particular division, such as Commander McCoy, as head of his division on shipboard, may wear white slashes on his green sleeve band and shoulder strap or white sleeve band and strap with green slashes. The shirt colour in these cases is a matter of personal discretion.

(empasis mine)

Case in point, Scotty. It's true he didn't start until he was promoted to captain, but Fletcher's example cited McCoy, who was only a commander, so presumably rank is not a factor.

It was the white turtleneck, combined with the gray slash on the sleeve band, that led me to infer that Saavik was Grissom's chief science officer. She could also be the XO, but the white turtleneck isn't conclusive. In fact, this is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest it.


Marian

Read the next line:

Usually only commanding officers on ship board wear white shirts. Other officers in command of their divisions generally stick to shirts of their division colour and display white slashes on their sleeves & straps.

 

[MarianLH]

Okay, yeah, I missed that.


Marian

 

[Data Holmes]

Okay, yeah, I missed that.


Marian

That's ok. While I love the work that Fletcher did with trek's uniforms, both the TMP and TWOK series of uniforms, the TWOK series's divisions and division exceptions always bothered me. One they left a little to much open and strayed a little too far from TOS.

I attempted to fix these problems once for a fan fic I wrote. I changed the division system and exception systems, starting from TOS and working forward.

Here are my notes on how I changed the system.

DEPARTMENT

**Note that this manual represents the departmental restructuring of 2270. Prior to that the
Departments of Operations and Tactical did not exist, and Engineering was Services Division. **

Command - White, Gold

**Notes: White is used for the Command department on all Dress uniforms as well as the Ship
Service Uniform. For Working and Field Service uniforms, Command Still uses the Operations Gold as the only personal within a ships command structure authorized to wear command white are the CO, XO, First Lieutenant, and Command CPO.**

Academy - Maroon*

*Special Note: All Starfleet Academy, Starfleet merchant academy, Starfleet Reserve Officer Training Corps Midshipman, and Officer Candidate School and Staff Officer School Officer Candidates, as well as all Star Fleet Trainees use the Maroon division color*

Operations - Gold

**Notes: Operations is composed of Communications, Navigation, Flight Control, Logistics, and Administration.**

Tactical - Gray
Weapons - Gray
Security & Marines - Windsor Green

**Notes: Tactical was created in 2270 as part of the Shipboard Departmental restructuring. Security, Gunnery, and Defensive Systems were taken from Services (the latter two being combined into the Weapons Division) and were combined with the Mobile Ground Force Detatchment.**


Engineering - Red

**Notes: With the removal of the Security, Gunnery, and Defensive Systems divisions, the Services Department was renamed the Engineering Department. The remaining Divisions are Transportation, Civil Engineering and Ships Computer Maintenance.**

Sciences - Blue
Science - Blue
Medical - Light Green

**Notes: Sciences Department remains unchanged organizationally. However, the Medical Division was allowed to add a light green alternative working uniform. Originally intended to be used only while on away missions or with marine units, it became very popular amongst the medical community and was authorized for all medical personnel to wear within the "medical bay" section of the ship.**

DIVISION EXCEPTIONS

**Note: All Exceptions apply to both officers and enlisted unless otherwise noted.**


Star Fleet Training Command

Midshipman, Officer Candidate, and Trainee special full dress - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed slashes of the color of the division to which they will be assigned. For command track, the slash is white. Maroon Division shirt.

Academy/SFROTC/OCS/SOS Instructors - Wear command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes and a particular division stripe in the middle of the maroon slash. Normal division shirt (medical, operations, ect).

Academy/SFROTC/OCS/SOS Staff - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes. Maroon division shirt.

Academy Superintendent and Commandant - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with maroon slashes. White division shirt.



Division and Department heads.

Division Heads - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed slashes of white. Division colored shirt.

Department Heads - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are white with imposed slashes of their
department. Division colored shirt.




Staff Noncommissioned Officers

Command Master Chief Petty Officer - Sleeve bands and Shoulder boards bear imposed stripe of silver lace.

Fleet/Force Master Chief Petty Officer - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear imposed stripe of gold lace.

Master Chief Petty Officer of the Star Fleet - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear two imposed stripes of gold lace.

Post Tour MCPO-SF Special Full Dress - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards bear two imposed
strips of silver lace.

Officers of Flag Rank

Flag Officers - Wear command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards, and command white
division shirt.

Staff Officers of Flag Rank - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with imposed slashes of their department, and division colored shirt.


General Staff Officers

General Staff Junior Officers - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are division color and bear
imposed slashes of white. Command white division shirt.

General Staff Senior Officers - Sleeve bands and shoulder boards are white with imposed slashes
of their department. Command white division shirt

General Staff Flag Officers - Wear Command white sleeve bands and shoulder boards with imposed slashes of their department, and command white division shirt.

 

[Longinus]

Engineering red? But red is cadets. Besides, Scotty had a yellow shirt...

 

[Data Holmes]

Engineering red? But red is cadets. Besides, Scotty had a yellow shirt...

Engineering was red in TOS, it was red in TMP. Command and operations was yellow/gold/tan in Cage, TOS, TMP. Cadets/midshipmen were Gray in Cage, TOS, and TMP.

That is one of those continuity changes which drives me up a wall.

 

[Longinus]

Things change..?

Engineering is yellow in TNG, so having the switch happen at the introduction of TWOK uniforms makes as much sense as it happening later.

 

[Data Holmes]

Things change..?

Engineering is yellow in TNG, so having the switch happen at the introduction of TWOK uniforms makes as much sense as it happening later.

The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.

The fanfic, which used the above mentioned division break down, kept that system. I adapted it to the TWOK style uniforms.

So with the turtle necks (or class C uniform), enlisted and petty officers wear brown. Chiefs and junior officers (warrant to Lt Cmdr) wear "beige", though I refereed to it as khaki. Senior officers (Cmdr on up) wear Blue-gray. All jackets worn over the turtle neck, Ie the ships service jacket (class B) and Service & Full dress (derived from the TWOK monster Maroon) were in Loden Green like Kirk's dress uniform in TMP.

Class C's displayed division on the TMP like chest insignia. Class B's on the jacket shoulder tabs, And dress uniforms on the shoulder closure strap and on the sleeves (Length of service band for enlisted, chiefs, and warrant, or between the officer's gold sleeve lace.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.

Well, the shoulder rank tabs, Starfleet arrowhead, and a stripe on the away mission jackets all displayed division colors, IIRC.

 

[Data Holmes]

The best thing was what they did in TMP which was to dump the division colors from the uniforms all together. That was one of the best things about the TMP uniforms, and why it was such a shame they got dumped on and dropped from later treks, instead of simply improved upon.

Well, the shoulder rank tabs, Starfleet arrowhead, and a stripe on the away mission jackets all displayed division colors, IIRC.

Yes, but the whole uniform wasn't division color. Thus all the uniforms are uniform, and you don't have a "magic rainbow" of skittle people.

 

[Longinus]

Yes, but the whole uniform wasn't division color. Thus all the uniforms are uniform, and you don't have a "magic rainbow" of skittle people.

I can understand that sentiment, but to me primary coloured uniforms are a big part of the iconic Star Trek look, made it sense or not.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

i have always thought that twok uniforms would have looked much better if they had had the under shirt be the same division colors as in tos. gol. blue and red. have the shoulder strap gold blue or red as well and have the years sevice pins on the shoulder strap. have the badge that is underneath the starfleet symbol be in the same gold blue or red division color as well. lastly have the rank on the sleeves just like tos but use the braid from tmp.

 

[RapidNadion]

^ I'm with you, as far as the (toned down) TOS division colors on the turtleneck and shoulder strap/wrist cuff. But the rest of it would be ... well, I wouldn't like the rest of it.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

^ i like the rank system from tos.

 

[Longinus]

i have always thought that twok uniforms would have looked much better if they had had the under shirt be the same division colors as in tos. gol. blue and red. have the shoulder strap gold blue or red as well and have the years sevice pins on the shoulder strap. have the badge that is underneath the starfleet symbol be in the same gold blue or red division color as well. lastly have the rank on the sleeves just like tos but use the braid from tmp.

Red shirts look bad with red jackets though.

 

[ncc-1017-e]

^that may be true but they did use that color combination in twok.

 

[Tom Riley]

The turtleneck looked more orangey than red to me....

 

[Longinus]

^that may be true but they did use that color combination in twok.

Yes, and it did look bad, though I never liked grey shirts either, they just looked like dirty white shirts.

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

First I've got to say that I love the "Class B" variations of the TWOK uniform, I think if they had had those options in canon, the combination would be my fav ST uniform ever.

I've also had some thoughts on the "fix the colors" debate:

Undershirts in four colors to designate rank:

White: Admirality.

Khaki: Commissioned Officers (based on canon Class A jacket lining)

Red: Cadets.

Black: Enlisted.


In addition, department would be indicated by jacket closures etc (as canon) and epalettes on the undershirt according to the following scheme:

White: Admiralty, Headquarters Staff, Diplomatic Corps
Gold: Command, Pilots
Blue: Sciences
Green: Medical
Brown: Security. Armory & Weapons Officers
Red: Engineering and Operations
Gray: Cadets, Trainees, Trainers, Recruiters

(NB: Brown is based on the idea that Brown appeared to be the "divisional color" - or at least the one most associated with - the MACOs. Gray and Red are potentially interchangeable but given the weight of history, I'd favor the combination above).

As far as Rank Insignia go, I like the Enlisted and Flag ranks as is, however I'd suggest a though or two regarding the Commissioned ranks. I like the pins for Captain, Commander and Lieutenant Commander, but I don't like the Ensign, Lieutenant JG and Lieutenant's pins. So I'd use the simpler "commander" pin style for Junior Officers (1 Gold Bar for Ensigns, 2 for Lt JG, 3 for Lt) and the more complex "captain" pin style for Senior Officers (1 Gold Bar for Lieutenant Commanders, 2 Gold Bars for Commanders and the canon three for Captains).

 

[ncc-1017-e]

^ a little confused i am now lol