Harry Potter Films, Deathly Hallows Preview
- Thread starter Rowan Sjet
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Not to mention Hermione probably overreacted, which brings up and interesting question:
Did she overreact at what he said, or did she overreact because it was Ron who said it?
Did she overreact at what he said, or did she overreact because it was Ron who said it?
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
If that were the only instance, then I might buy that...but it's a pattern that repeats itself many times throughout the book. Ron is always either whining/slagging about Hermione's studiousess, trying to get Harry to not listen to her, or otherwise finding ways to antagonize her and or Harry.
Given that he'd already been slagging on her about her intelligence and studiousness for some time at that point, I don't think it's unreasonable for her to finally have a meltdown over it.
Snape being on the good side rather than bad, when he was a well-written villain in HBP and when the motivation felt unconvincing, was a big issue I had.
I also agree, at least to a lesser extent, with DD's criticism of Ron; his behavior from "you're a girl" and acting so jealous about Krum (when he in fact hadn't even directly suggested an interest) in GoF to acting so possessive of Ginny-hypocritical given his own purely selfish adventures-in HBP would seem unattractive.
I also agree, at least to a lesser extent, with DD's criticism of Ron; his behavior from "you're a girl" and acting so jealous about Krum (when he in fact hadn't even directly suggested an interest) in GoF to acting so possessive of Ginny-hypocritical given his own purely selfish adventures-in HBP would seem unattractive.
darkwing: Ron IS definitely flawed, but you seem to be focusing on those flaws at the expense of - and thus ranking them above - his redeeming and noble qualities, a few examples of which are his loyalty, his compassion, and his sense of right and wrong. Yes, he is portrayed as being a git at times, but the same could be said of many other characters in the HP universe, including Harry himself.
About the 'troll incident': Yes, Ron shouldn't have said the things he said that caused Hermione's emotional distress, but can you honestly tell me that you haven't said things without thinking that have had unintended negative consequences? I know that I have.
suarezguy: I can't really argue with your opinion that the revelation of Snape's true loyalties was a complete '180' from how JKR had been characterizing him up to that point, but I would like to state, for the record, that, being as intimately involved in the HP fandom as I was at the time, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a substantial group of fans who telegraphed JKR's ultimate intentions for Snape long before she actually revealed them.
About the 'troll incident': Yes, Ron shouldn't have said the things he said that caused Hermione's emotional distress, but can you honestly tell me that you haven't said things without thinking that have had unintended negative consequences? I know that I have.
suarezguy: I can't really argue with your opinion that the revelation of Snape's true loyalties was a complete '180' from how JKR had been characterizing him up to that point, but I would like to state, for the record, that, being as intimately involved in the HP fandom as I was at the time, I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a substantial group of fans who telegraphed JKR's ultimate intentions for Snape long before she actually revealed them.
I know I did. I thought it was really obvious, frankly.
^ Same here, but as happy as I am with how it turned out, I also had the secret guilty hope that Snape would actually reveal himself to be playing both sides and end up as the ultimate villain of the series. 
Ron and Harry's, and the author's, acceptance of slavery, because the slaves had been well-conditioned, was disconcerting, but Ron's full-fledged celebration of it, refusing to admit it was complicated as Harry did, made him particularly immoral in my view, that as well as what I wrote before makes me think he has an overall very skewed view of right and wrong.
How was Rowling accepting of slavery? The only example I can think of at the moment is with the Hogwarts kitchen elves, and that was addressed in due course. I wouldn't call Ron immoral for it, so much as I would uneducated ... a lesson that he eventually learns. Ron is the "everyman" type of character, the normal kind of kid from a rather humble background that so many folks can identify with. He's pretty rough n many respects, but he's more of a diamond in the rough as exhibited by his being one of the only few who stood by Harry's side in "Phoenix". His taking off in "Deathly Hallows" shows he has a long way to go, but his return shows that he's getting better at it.
Not to mention it's a work of fiction.
Grisham uses the KKK and such in his books. I think (I'm not positive it was him.) even made a member to be heroic-like. Does that make him a racist?
Any one who knows anything about JKR's personal life (and I only know a little), knows she's anything but a slave monger.
Grisham uses the KKK and such in his books. I think (I'm not positive it was him.) even made a member to be heroic-like. Does that make him a racist?
Any one who knows anything about JKR's personal life (and I only know a little), knows she's anything but a slave monger.
darkwing_duck1
Vice Admiral
If he actually LEARNED from his frak-ups, I might be more charitable, yet he's the same impulsive, hot tempered wishy-washy git in book 7 that he is in the earlier books.
For every example of loyalty you care to name, I can cite at least one example of DISloyalty (broom incident in Book 3, jealousy over Harry being a Champion in Book 4, et al). Compassion? Gawking at Harry's scar, the troll incident, his poor attitude towards the younger students as prefect (and how the hell did he GET to be prefect?)
His sense of "right and wrong"? As in "all Slytherins are evil, and that's that"? Lest we forget that Pettigrew was a GRYFFINDOR?
Then there's his generally shallow nature. Food, Quidditch, and chess and the world's just peachy, thank you.
Harry's gitt-ness is more often than not a result of Ron's influence. And even when it is not, if anyone has the right to be a git on occasion it's Harry, given the pressure he's constantly under.
Again, if it were once, and he LEARNED not to do it again, I might agree. But Ron seems to be congenitally incapable of being mature.
The WW in general as portrayed is racist, classist and (blood) nobility obsessed. Those are the conditions that breed dark wizards. Rowling, in not showing how Harry CHANGED the WW in order for him to win tacitly approves of that (her "offscreen" comments notwithstanding).
Her portrayal of even arguably "good" (as in non-DE supporter) Ministers shows just how bad off the WW is socially. Scringemour is Fudge only with more backbone. He's still every bit as manipulative and corrupt, as evidenced by his attempt to blackmail Harry and his refusal to hand over Dumbledoor's bequests until FORCED to do so
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