Dominion Borg

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Memory Alpha says a Borg Cube contains upwards of 129,000 drones. If a hand full of the crew on the opposing ship could resist the collective mental weight of that many drones, how quickly could they react before they were overrun by numbers?

But not all of the drones on a cube would be Betazoid, of course. And a physical ability like mind control/influence would not be able to be shared among the collective (it depends on Betazoid physiology).

 

[Kaziarl]

Betazoids can at least teach non-telepathic races, but I think the individual has to be somehow inclined towards it. Its possible using nanite technology the Borg could give telepathic ability to those races who already have the potential. Plus, augmented with implants, a drone with telepathic abilities would likely be much more powerful, with the full backing of the collective consciousness. It would be like turning a fire hose on full and pointing it directly at your front door.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Founders only change shape. They can't cloack. Any tricorder will detect the borg implants hidden in, for example, a chair - and that's assuming that the borg founder CAN turn into a chair, encumbered as he is by all those borg implants (which must, at all times, function, controlling the founder).

Two things:

1) How do you know a tricorder could detect Borg implants hidden inside a Founder?

Because: "Founders only change shape. They can't cloack."

2) Even if they could, it might be too late. By the time anyone thought to scan (this is assuming it's not common knowledge that the Borg had assimilated a Founder), it would be too late. Until somebody happened to scan for it, a single Founder drone, properly disguised, could do a whole lot of assimilating without anyone even knowing it was there.

Actually, the founder borg would be noticeable the moment it tries to assimilate someone.
And himself - and any assimilated persons - would be noticeable because they would be essentially zombies. They won't meld in with the population. Why? Because: "The borg adapt their technology, NOT the way they think, their nature. In this aspect, they're the most rigid, unchanging species ever seen in star trek. For example - You may be able to convince a romulan to make peace, but NEVER a borg."

One thing is certain - founder espionage/sabotage had no decisive effect during the war.

What about those four Founders that were in disguise on Earth? They surely did a fair amount of damage themselves - every moment they were 'undercover' put the whole Federation at risk. And we never did find out what happened to them, did we? For all we know, they didn't even reveal themselves after the war was over - they might have disobeyed the Founder leader's order to surrender.

Exactly my point: those 4 founders on Earth - and probably others on other planets - had no noticeable effect on the course of the war. We never see or hear of any advantages the dominion gained because of them. Or, as I said: "One thing is certain - founder espionage/sabotage had no decisive effect during the war."

Mr. Laser Beam, you're repeating arguments I already refuted.

 

[MikeS]

Y'all ignored my post.

Canon:
Borg nanoprobes work by attaching themselves to organelles within cells
Founders do not have cells

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Because: "Founders only change shape. They can't cloack."

I know they can't generate a cloaking FIELD, like a Jem'Hadar and a Tosk can, but they can hide objects within their own bodies. We've seen it happen (it's how the changeling Martok defeated a blood test).

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Because: "Founders only change shape. They can't cloack."

I know they can't generate a cloaking FIELD, like a Jem'Hadar and a Tosk can, but they can hide objects within their own bodies. We've seen it happen (it's how the changeling Martok defeated a blood test).

Star trek scanners/tricorders can see through matter, Mr. Laser Beam - including the semiorganic matter changelings are made of.
How many times Did Odo beam? Or was medically scanned/treated by Bajir?

Y'all ignored my post.

Canon:
Borg nanoprobes work by attaching themselves to organelles within cells
Founders do not have cells

Borg nanoprobes work by assimilating cells (and reconfiguring matter) AKA they work by star trek magic (technobabble).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Star trek scanners/tricorders can see through matter, Mr. Laser Beam - including the semiorganic matter changelings are made of.

Yet they didn't detect the changeling Martok hiding a packet of blood inside its body (Way of the Warrior).

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Star trek scanners/tricorders can see through matter, Mr. Laser Beam - including the semiorganic matter changelings are made of.

Yet they didn't detect the changeling Martok hiding a packet of blood inside its body (Way of the Warrior).

But they did.

It was proven that founders shapeshifting was good enough to fool tricorders - not good enough to actually function like the real thing, though.

The Martok changeling was impersonating a klingon. This means that he shapeshifted fake klingon internal organs - in order to fool scanners, too. The blood that flowed through his fake bloodvessels was real, though - and it, of course, showed on scanners (as it would in a real klingon).
Probably the Martok founder injected himself with this blood on a regular basis, in order to pass the tests.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The Martok changeling was impersonating a klingon. This means that he shapeshifted fake klingon internal organs

Actually it seems they never said *how* the changeling did that. It could be as you say, or it could be as *I* said (just hiding a packet of blood within itself). Either way, the changeling hid something, and that's what's important.

 

[ProtoAvatar]

The Martok changeling was impersonating a klingon. This means that he shapeshifted fake klingon internal organs

Actually it seems they never said *how* the changeling did that. It could be as you say, or it could be as *I* said (just hiding a packet of blood within itself). Either way, the changeling hid something, and that's what's important.

What are you talking about, Mr. Laser Beam?
In order to fool the simplest star trek scanner, the founders HAVE to shapeshift the internal structure (organs) of their personna.
Shapeshifting is their ability, that's how they infiltrate and spy.

Hiding klingon blood in a klingon body? There are multiple problems with this speculation:
The founders can't cloack things.
Klingon blood is normal in a klingon body, so, fortunately for the founder, there's no need to cloack anything.