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Harry Potter Films, Deathly Hallows Preview

wait, did i completely black out and miss HBP?

That's pretty much how I felt after I walked out of the theater for HPB...I can't remember much about having seen it...

Well to be fair HBP as a book is essentially just a lead-in to DH, if you were to summarise its events you could do it in two lines: -

Harry finds out about Horcruxes.
Dumbledore is killed by Snape.

But of course it also leads in to the key themes for the final book, especially for Snape, and for the trio and their quest.

There is one huge, gigantic thing that bugs me to death about the HBP movie...not the lack of a Dumbledore funeral or the Order fighting the Death Eaters in Hogwarts (which would have been WAY better than the Burn-Down-The-Poor-People's-House scene), but this...

Harry has been left with no idea where to start looking for Horcruxes...none at all...no indication that Voldemort keeps tokens of his kills or is obsessed with his Slytherin heritage or the founders of the school...no indication of being interested in the Hufflepuff cup...no discussion or speculation from Dumbledore as to what the other Horcruxes could be. Where is he going to begin? At the end of the book, Harry knew he needed the locket, the cup, possibly Nagini and potentially stuff from Gryffindor and Ravenclaw. At the end of the movie, he has none of these hints to start his quest for the horcruxes, not even a notion of where to begin.

How in the world are they going to deal with that in the DH film???
 
^ That was the first thing I complained about when the film finished! An absolutely stupid thing to leave out, possibly the worst thing that got left out of any of the films.
 
^ Since the DH film is actually two films, they will probably have a scene of exposition in dialog where they mention that Voldy would think it a cool idea to do horcruxes using something precious to all four founders and also somebody will mention (Hermione, I bet) the locket and the cup which were important to the other two founders.

I guess darkwing_duck1 really hated the thought of R/H :)
 
^ Since the DH film is actually two films, they will probably have a scene of exposition in dialog where they mention that Voldy would think it a cool idea to do horcruxes using something precious to all four founders and also somebody will mention (Hermione, I bet) the locket and the cup which were important to the other two founders.

I figure that it will be a bit of Hermione exposition that will "solve" it, but even then, unless the writers create something more definitive than her intuition/book knowledge, it will be more of them fumbling through on an assumption, rather than going on their hunt based on the research by Dumbledore. And with the locket and cup especially, Dumbledore had memories that pretty much confirmed as much as he could that they were Horcruxes...

I guess either way, you could consider the Horcrux hunt to be based on "hunches", but still couldn't they have at least thrown in a line or two at the end of HPB with Harry/Dumbledore at least speculating as to what they are? It just was so very sloppy that it colors my whole perception of the film itself...
 
I am so glad darkwing duck didn't preface this thread with the obligatory "I could do better." :rolleyes:

To embark on such a vindictive crusade against a series of children's books seems like a colossal waste of time.

I don't understand why people despise JKR over, what seems like, just her success. She wrote of series of books that were fun and interesting enough to keep a generation of kids doomed to be illiterate interested and reading. For that, I say she deserves every penny she's earned.

In order to do so, she took a bunch of really old archetypes and troupes and placed them in a unique and lively world she created. It's as simple as that. Do the story have their fair share of problems? Yes. But what give such a fuck? It's not meant to be Shakespeare.
 
I am so glad darkwing duck didn't preface this thread with the obligatory "I could do better." :rolleyes:

Any reasonably competent writer, runnig a fever and hopped up on cold medicine could do better than Books 6 and 7.

To embark on such a vindictive crusade against a series of children's books seems like a colossal waste of time.

I don't understand why people despise JKR over, what seems like, just her success.

I don't mind her success. What I hate is the colossally bad writing of books 6 and 7.

She wrote of series of books that were fun and interesting enough to keep a generation of kids doomed to be illiterate interested and reading. For that, I say she deserves every penny she's earned.

Even though in the end those books teach children that they are the hapless pawns of fate? That adults cannot be trusted to look out for them, or worse, abuse the hell out of them? That ruining people's lives is all right if it's "for the greater good"?

In order to do so, she took a bunch of really old archetypes and troupes and placed them in a unique and lively world she created.

I will give her props for world building.

It's as simple as that. Do the story have their fair share of problems? Yes. But what give such a fuck? It's not meant to be Shakespeare.

This is the same sort of lacksadasical attitude that lets Twilight flourish even though it TOO is a horrible piece of writing.
 
Rowling came up with an explanation for that on her site.

JKR: Veritaserum works best upon the unsuspecting, the vulnerable and those insufficiently skilled (in one way or another) to protect themselves against it. Barty Crouch had been attacked before the potion was given to him and was still very groggy, otherwise he could have employed a range of measures against the Potion - he might have sealed his own throat and faked a declaration of innocence, transformed the Potion into something else before it touched his lips, or employed Occlumency against its effects. In other words, just like every other kind of magic within the books, Veritaserum is not infallible. As some wizards can prevent themselves being affected, and others cannot, it is an unfair and unreliable tool to use at a trial.

It doesn't actually say that anywhere in the books, so there's no canon backing for it, but that's the author's own explanation for not using Veritaserum. I think the deus-ex potential of the time-turner bothered me more. I mean, if you can change time to do your extra homework, and save a hippogriff, it's a bit hard to justify not using it to save so many other lives. Though I think at the end of OotP they very conveniently accidentally destroy every time-turner ever, honest! don't they? :)

You mean, she got caught with bad writing and tried to back-fill her way out of it.

Infraction for spamming. Twice you've posted four consecutive posts when the Edit button and quote function would have been just as easy.

Discussions by any party needs to go to PM.
 
It doesn't help that I'm not sure I like the the "real" Ginny in HBP, or at least the way JKR treats her.

I think this might be the point we differ on :) I really disliked 'early' Ginny with her constant blushing (a Rowling trait that, actually - everyone's always 'blushing' early on) and felt she got a bit of an unfair backseat role in books 3 and 4. I much preferred the more confident Ginny of book 5 onwards, and so I guess it made personal sense to me that Harry would too.



Do I detect a disappointed Harry/Hermione shipper?

I think you do. ;)

I would have prefered that to Hermione/Ron for sure. However if you characterised my dislike of books six and seven as soley because Harry and Hermione didnt get together then that would be wildly missing the point of my criticisms.

My point was more that your only interest in DH was the scenes that could be interpreted from a H/H ship POV. You're naturally perfectly entitled to dislike whatever books you like ;)


Also, the prophecy is completely useless and tells us nothing that impacts the rest of the story other than a throwaway backstory for Neville.
No, the prophecy sets Harry up as a martyr, and that is what DD is grooming him to be at that point.

The prophecy really wasn't necessary for that though - Harry would have been in that position anyway as he was a Horcrux. And that woudl have been less obvious if we hadn't known for two books that line about 'neither can live...'. Essentially, the story could have played out in exactly the same way without the prophecy. Now, granted, the 'half blood prince' book never really featured again either, but the crux of that book was the backstory, not the potion book plot - OotP was the other way around - the prophecy was the furthering of the arc, while Umbridge was the supporting story. And yet, the prophecy was largely unimportant. If Vodlemort had got it, what would he really have known of import? He was trying to kill Harry anyway.


Dissapointed that the LOGICAL pairing is tossed aside for half-assed, baseless pairings "because the author says so"?
No, it wasn't logical. You've decided it's the pairing you'd have liked to see, and that's absolutely your right, but it wasn't logic that lead to that, nor following the actual story in front of you - R/H has been there in subtle form since the beginning and in far less than subtle form since at least book 4. I can certainly see that people think H/G is out of the blue, but R/H was very clearly on the cards from the first time Rowling even introduces the idea of relationships.

Yes, because making a girl cry and almost getting her crushed by a troll is SUCH a good way to show her how you feel...or tearing her a new one about a broom...etc etc...:rolleyes:


No, they're baseless until the mysterious appearance of the Chest Monster. And there's STILL the bit about Molly "helping along" her relationship with Arthur...like mother like daughter...
You had some unusual high school experiences if you think either of these relationship progressions were unusual. The only unusual thing is that they would last into forever-marriage. But then, having gone through all that together, that makes pretty good sense too.


On the contrary, she all but throws herself (in an 11-year old way) at him right at the end of book 1 with the "friendship and..." line. Hermione is constantly being demonstrative with him, until the later books when she unexpectedly (and unrealistically) starts throwing herself at Ron.
So a minute ago relationships with girls who crushed on you at 11 was dodgy and irrational, but now its the LOGICAL choice to get with them and be together forever?

What? That Voldie was a 'bad seed'? That's not interesting OR particularly informative.
If that's all the backstory you need on a villain, that he's 'bad', I can see why you didn't like the book (you can't like many books, actually) - I preferred to see how Voldemort came to be, to learn about his past. Rather than be the Dark Lord of Conveniently Motiveless Evil, we learnt how and why he became obsessed with cheating death. And it's not just the life story of Voldemort, it explains the entire Horcrux thing and all the locations he hid them.

Oh, and to those moaning about side-along apparition not being invented until book 6, that's just a Rowling trademark - new things get added to the Potterverse all along which start out rare or unusual and are suddenly commonplace from then on.
The mark of a poor writer.
Mostly, the mark of kids books morphing into adults books. Difficult to make a world slowly more complex through 7 books designed for increasingly older people without... making it more complex. Granted, it's not the best setup, it makes it hard to fit the early books into the later universe, but then you are supposed to be taking Harry's POV - someone who is as new to this world as we are. He might not get things right or complete the first time.
 
Agreed with pretty much all of the above except:

I think this might be the point we differ on I really disliked 'early' Ginny with her constant blushing (a Rowling trait that, actually - everyone's always 'blushing' early on) and felt she got a bit of an unfair backseat role in books 3 and 4. I much preferred the more confident Ginny of book 5 onwards, and so I guess it made personal sense to me that Harry would too.
I didn't mind early Ginny, but agree with you about books 3 and 4. And I actually loved book 5 Ginny. She was funny and strong without being a bitch. I just think she became a bit of a Mary Sue in HBP, where not even the bad things she did were treated as such by JKR. She wasn't a horrible character by any means, and I did find some points where I was rooting for her, there just wasn't as much overall to like. Smallville had the same problem with Lana Lang.
 
^ Since the DH film is actually two films, they will probably have a scene of exposition in dialog where they mention that Voldy would think it a cool idea to do horcruxes using something precious to all four founders and also somebody will mention (Hermione, I bet) the locket and the cup which were important to the other two founders.

I figure that it will be a bit of Hermione exposition that will "solve" it, but even then, unless the writers create something more definitive than her intuition/book knowledge, it will be more of them fumbling through on an assumption, rather than going on their hunt based on the research by Dumbledore. And with the locket and cup especially, Dumbledore had memories that pretty much confirmed as much as he could that they were Horcruxes...

I guess either way, you could consider the Horcrux hunt to be based on "hunches", but still couldn't they have at least thrown in a line or two at the end of HPB with Harry/Dumbledore at least speculating as to what they are? It just was so very sloppy that it colors my whole perception of the film itself...

Maybe they'll change the last will and testament slightly, and instead of the Sword of Gryffindor, DD will leave him some sort of Horcrux Pokédex.
 
To embark on such a vindictive crusade against a series of children's books seems like a colossal waste of time.

With publishing, you agree to have criticism as well as praise, of which there has been a lot of.

She wrote of series of books that were fun and interesting enough to keep a generation of kids doomed to be illiterate interested and reading. For that, I say she deserves every penny she's earned.

A lot of different books create and maintain interest in reading. Popularity and quality shouldn't really be related when luck and marketing are major factors to success, though talent is also a factor.

The writer didn't have the balls to go through with it, but it's clear that DD was grooming Harry to be a martyr (which he wound up being, but was deus-ed out of).

DD is a MONSTER, every bit as evil as Voldemort, just with better PR.

Good guys always do and get away with questionable acts in fiction. Dumbledore's ruthlessness should have received more comment but think about the stakes if Harry had chosen differently.

I thought she had gotten over the "obsession" in book 4 and in both that one and book 5 she had fine development that made her more likable not just as a fan but her own character. The relationship isn't deep but isn't meant to be-they like each other but not on serious, "one and only" terms.
Which is at odds with the Chest Monster that is described as Harry's reaction to seeing Ginny with other boys.

Eh, I think that's just physical attraction coupled with knowing that it's a surprising and that Ron wouldn't like it, it could effect their relationship.
 
reading Goblet of fire now, if Harry can summon his broom, why not just summon the egg?


I believe they had a spell on it.

I really, really disliked DH. It wrapped up way to nicely. Seriously. I know Voldemort isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed but why the hell would he keep all of his Horacruxes in a small area in the world?
 
I really, really disliked DH. It wrapped up way to nicely. Seriously. I know Voldemort isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed but why the hell would he keep all of his Horacruxes in a small area in the world?
Yeah, I would have just made a rock into a horcrux and tossed it into the North Sea. Voldemort could still have used the founder's items etc. if it made him feel special, but a rock horcrux just to be sure would have saved his ass.
 
this is not the post you're looking for. Move along.


Emote-Vader.gif

 
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I have yet to see the higher quality version but I was impressed with what I saw. It got me very excited for the film(s). It was just enough of a tease for this point in time and I do like the ominous nature of the scenes that they chose to use. DH is my favorite book, in part because so much of it takes place outside of Hogwarts, so it was great to see those scenes included.

As for what should be included in the film. IMHO, some version of the Epilogue should be there regardless if one thinks it was written poorly, or disagrees with the romances. The romances and the writing (which I have no problems with) are the least important things as far as I'm concerned. The Epilogue wraps up other character arcs (Snape + Harry and Snape's redemption), shows how Harry has grown into a mature adult and father, and gives him a family which he has longed for since the first book. It also gives us a sense that the WW has rebuilt after the war. It worked for me just fine.
 
Agreed with pretty much all of the above except:

I think this might be the point we differ on I really disliked 'early' Ginny with her constant blushing (a Rowling trait that, actually - everyone's always 'blushing' early on) and felt she got a bit of an unfair backseat role in books 3 and 4. I much preferred the more confident Ginny of book 5 onwards, and so I guess it made personal sense to me that Harry would too.
I didn't mind early Ginny, but agree with you about books 3 and 4. And I actually loved book 5 Ginny. She was funny and strong without being a bitch. I just think she became a bit of a Mary Sue in HBP, where not even the bad things she did were treated as such by JKR. She wasn't a horrible character by any means, and I did find some points where I was rooting for her, there just wasn't as much overall to like. Smallville had the same problem with Lana Lang.

That's a fair point (although she wasn't Lana Lang bad :crazy: :lol:), she does become kind of the girl who can do no wrong in books 6 and 7 - but when a similar point was put to Rowling in one of her interviews on British TV, her response was that every character's portrayal is through Harry's eyes, so they naturally come across how Harry sees them - Harry views Snape as a dickhead, Malfoy as a scheming villain and Ginny (later on) as wonderful - so the characters are portrayed as such - she also pointed out the actions of the characters are supposed to give away the 'reality' - Snape's actions and memories late in book 7, Malfoy's crying and general being a pussy and Ginny's acting quite snappy or simpering at times.
Having said that, it certainly could be argued that Ginny replaced Hermione as the resident Mary Sue (not a full one, in either character, but traits of) once Harry fell for her - Hermione had a much more fallible personality in books 6 and 7.
 
The preview is on the two-disc dvd.

If Hermoine/Harry made sense in the books...it sure did in the films! Radcliffe and Watson have mad chemistry.

Looking foward to two films especially the battle at Hogwarts :techman:


I'm ambivilent about the epilogue.
 
The preview is on the two-disc dvd.

If Hermoine/Harry made sense in the books...it sure did in the films! Radcliffe and Watson have mad chemistry.

They really do. Honestly, Harry/Hermione would have felt far more natural had it happened than Harry/Ginny, which honestly felt like it came out of nowhere in my opinion.
 
No, it wasn't logical. You've decided it's the pairing you'd have liked to see, and that's absolutely your right, but it wasn't logic that lead to that, nor following the actual story in front of you - R/H has been there in subtle form since the beginning and in far less than subtle form since at least book 4. I can certainly see that people think H/G is out of the blue, but R/H was very clearly on the cards from the first time Rowling even introduces the idea of relationships.

Yes, because it's SOOOO obvious that the good girl, intelligent and well bred is the obvious choice to pair up with the irrational, slovenly, slothful ingrate with a bad temper, worse study habits, and "the :rolleyes:emotional range of a teaspoon".

You had some unusual high school experiences if you think either of these relationship progressions were unusual. The only unusual thing is that they would last into forever-marriage. But then, having gone through all that together, that makes pretty good sense too.

Harry/Ginny have gone through two things together: jack and squat. Ginny never gets close enough to Harry to know the REAL Harry Potter. Her romantic dreams are fueled from a lifetime of Harry Potter fangirlism learned at her mother's knee.

Harry and Hermione, on the other hand, have been through Hell and back together. Repeatedly.

So a minute ago relationships with girls who crushed on you at 11 was dodgy and irrational, but now its the LOGICAL choice to get with them and be together forever?

Ginny's stalker-crush is irrational, based on the "Boy Who Lived" fable. Hermione's love is based on real, shared experiences with Harry.

If that's all the backstory you need on a villain, that he's 'bad', I can see why you didn't like the book

I didn't say that was all I needed. I said that was all I GOT from the "This is your life: Lord Voldemort" garbage. He was an evil little sh*t right from the get go.

I preferred to see how Voldemort came to be, to learn about his past. Rather than be the Dark Lord of Conveniently Motiveless Evil,

That's all he is though, as we learn. His evil started well before he ever knew he was a wizard.

And it's not just the life story of Voldemort, it explains the entire Horcrux thing and all the locations he hid them.

Could have been handled by a short bit of exposition. Didn't need useless scene after useless scene of Voldie's early life.

Mostly, the mark of kids books morphing into adults books. Difficult to make a world slowly more complex through 7 books designed for increasingly older people without... making it more complex.

More complex MAY be good. Deus ex machina's that tear great weeping holes in your exisiting plot logic is not.

Granted, it's not the best setup, it makes it hard to fit the early books into the later universe,

Precisely my point. Bad retconning is the mark of a bad writer.

but then you are supposed to be taking Harry's POV - someone who is as new to this world as we are. He might not get things right or complete the first time.

Excuses excuses...
 
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