Changes in TNG History

[The Wormhole]

I was reading the first post in the fan fiction story linked above and it occured to me that if the Romulans did eventually unite with the remaining Vulcans then, depending on when they might have done this, they might not have attacked the Klingon colony at Narendra III, meaning Worf and kurn would still be with there parents and Worf would never likely join Starfleet but serve in the Empire instead, much like the events seen of Mirror Worf in the DS9 Mirror episodes and the alternate timeline seen in Yeasterdays Enterprise.

Well, probably different than Yesterday's Enterprise. If the Romulans don't attack Narenra III, then the Enterprise C would not have to respond to its distress signal. The Enterprise C would not then get sucked into a temporal rift, making it look like they cut and ran, not leading to a 20 year war between the Klingons and the Federation.

If anything, peace between the Klingons and the Federation would still occur, maybe not with the Klingons showing the same level of trust because there was no heroic sacrifice by the Enterpise C.

 

[Traveller]

Well, probably different than Yesterday's Enterprise. If the Romulans don't attack Narenra III, then the Enterprise C would not have to respond to its distress signal. The Enterprise C would not then get sucked into a temporal rift, making it look like they cut and ran, not leading to a 20 year war between the Klingons and the Federation.

Uhm... that was another Alternate Universe to the Prime Universe. In the PU, the Enterprise-C was destroyed and the Klingons were so impressed by this heroic act that the relationship between the two peoples improved significantly.

If anything, peace between the Klingons and the Federation would still occur, maybe not with the Klingons showing the same level of trust because there was no heroic sacrifice by the Enterpise C.

Not necessarily. If Narendra is never attacked, then the Federation doesn't have this opportunity to show their loyalty, and any progress that may have been made since ST VI could easily be lost. The alliance may even break apart and the Klingons become the enemy again.

Anything can happen. This universe can branch off at any point, in any direction, multiple times. That's the beauty of it - a whole new sandbox to play in.

 

[Start Wreck]

Everyone is dead, on account of the giant space amoebas devouring the galaxy.

 

[Arpy]

If we're to take this utteryly realistically, no, none of TNG, DS9, or VOY would happen as is. Because the obliteration of Vulcan, a founding world of the Federation, would surely cause enough ripples in the timeline to at least make sure the specific egg and specific sperm that made all our characters didn't come together at the specific times they did. For all we know about real world temporal mechanics, the displacement of any single quark six minutes after the Big Bang may have made it it rain helium, or donuts, or, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGLZqDXau98

On the other hand, Pine and Shatner didn't come from the same zygote either so...

 

[Triskelion]

Gee, the Temporal Fleet wouldnt' find this of interest, would it. Instead let's go back in time and destroy the little Intrepid ship that ended the Borg threat (Future's End).

Oh BTW if Tuvok hadn't been born, you think Janeway would have no first officer to send to the Badlands? Other people would then have the opportunities to step into these roles.

And - don't go blowing up the timeline if you're not willing to do your own homework about the consequences.

Here's really what I think: the timeline will be exactly the same (ie, show ideas) except for the parts people wish to upgrade, (design, effects and beautiful people).

Average-looking, Ugly & Fugly people will no longer be tolerated in the Federation.

 

[The Wormhole]

Not necessarily. If Narendra is never attacked, then the Federation doesn't have this opportunity to show their loyalty, and any progress that may have been made since ST VI could easily be lost. The alliance may even break apart and the Klingons become the enemy again.

Tasha Yar's love interest from the Enterprise C was surprised to learn the Federation and Klingons were at war, since relations in their time were improving, and a peace treaty was "showing promise." So based on this, we can assume that had the attack on Narendra III not occurred, a peace treaty between the Klingons and Federation would occur anyway, just not as as strong as the one in the prime timeline.

Gee, the Temporal Fleet wouldnt' find this of interest, would it. Instead let's go back in time and destroy the little Intrepid ship that ended the Borg threat (Future's End).

Captain Braxton, the timeship Relativity and the Temporal Fleet can only deal with incidents that the 29th century is involved in. The reason Braxton tried to destroy Voyager in Future's End was because it destroyed a 29th century timeship which caused a temporal explosion that destroyed Earth in the 29th century. Since Nero and Spock were from the 24th century and had no involvement with the 29th, there's nothing for Temporal Fleet to do about it.

Now, Crewman Daniels and his Temporal Agents on the other hand, should be doing something about. Though from the 31st century, they went to the 22nd century to fight someone from the 28th century ("Future Guy") and then went to the 20th century to fight aliens from the 29th century (the Alien Nazis from Storm Front).

Oh BTW if Tuvok hadn't been born, you think Janeway would have no first officer to send to the Badlands? Other people would then have the opportunities to step into these roles.

Tuvok was always supposed to be Voyager's security officer, not first officer. Voyager's official, Starfleet assigned first officer was Lt. Commander Cavit.

 

[Triskelion]

You're right, of course Wormhole! Good catches!

My details may be rusty but I think my argument still stands. That there is such a thing as the temporal fleet - the temporal prime directive is in place to preserve the timeline. XXX on the Scimitar changed it. Who's to say it doesn't directly pull threads from the 29th century when all the Vulcans start popping out of existence?

I'm not arguing for the temporal fleet. Found 'em to be a deus ex machina anyway. I'm just saying. A mandate that protects the Borg by destroying Voyager (don't tell me they didn't see it coming), yet would permit the destruction of Vulcan, could probably use a little oversight.

I think it's pretty cool that they took such a drastic measure for the movie; but I also think a Star Trek without Vulcan is depressing. What's next? Poseurs on shaky cams? Voyeurism and civilian/military power trips? Ugh. Don't get me wrong. I love BSG. When it's BSG.

Is there some middle ground that doesn't take a dump on everything that came before (including XI)?

 

[Traveller]

The whole Temporal Fleet/PD is utter BS. IMO you can't timetravel at all - you'd create all sorts of paradoxes. In reality (and please, no posts of the "it's fiction"-type. I'm talking about the fictional reality of the ST universe and you all know that)...

... where was I? Oh, yes ...

... in reality you travel into a parallel universe's present and start shaping its future by your actions like anybody else.

(That would mean that an equal amount of energy had to travel into the universe of your origin in exchange ... a bit like in Inkheart... you know, conservation of energy).

 

[Broccoli]

The whole Temporal Fleet/PD is utter BS. IMO you can't timetravel at all - you'd create all sorts of paradoxes. In reality (and please, no posts of the "it's fiction"-type. I'm talking about the fictional reality of the ST universe and you all know that)...

... where was I? Oh, yes ...

... in reality you travel into a parallel universe's present and start shaping its future by your actions like anybody else.

(That would mean that an equal amount of energy had to travel into the universe of your origin in exchange ... a bit like in Inkheart... you know, conservation of energy).

But...but...time travel happened on screen...thereby making it TEH CANON@!!@

 

[USS Excelsior]

Not just Vulcan being gone but a large Starfleet and Klingon Armada have been destroyed by the Narada, which would have a huge impact as well. Far more than the destruction of the Kelvin and we saw what difference that made.

 

[Traveller]

It's strange that a TV show that had absolutely no use for religion bred a following that's so obsessed with canon...

Of course, from Nero's and Spock's POV they traveled back in time. But I still think it isn't possible to do that in your own universe, because of the grandfather paradox.

 

[Yug]

But really, think about this: What transpired in Star Trek XI: A New Hope could cause a ripple effect that could change Trek pre-history. What if, as a result, Captain Braxton is never born, and his time ship never goes to Earth's past, and Ed Begley Jr never finds the timeship crash site in the 60's, he won't create the computer age as mentioned by Janeway, based on it's 29th century technology... everything changed even before it happened.

My point is, why bother with the notion that Picard and pals will never be what we know them as? Other than playful speculation, there's no point in debating. I mean, how many alternate universes have we seen in Trek by now? Enough to think the Next Gen, Voy and Ds9 crews are alive and well somewhere else, and always will be. And we now have a new Trek universe to unfold into a different future full of all new Trek stuff !!

 

[Voyagerian]

I feel that with Vulcan decimated and elder Spock back in the past, a different future will unfold witht he Romulans. I think Unification is far more likely now.

I tend to agree. I feel myself that Spock as I have said elsewhere will be strongly motivated to create a relationship with the Empire that was lost in the PU,and to save the planet he failed to-at terrible cost, in his own universe, and, even if, at his advancing age, he will not be there to see it happen. His younger self likely would-and be willing in time to do what he can, to take on the role of bridger of worlds his other self did at a later date. BTW, I also think it quite possible Tuvok would be alive in the Abrams universe. As stated elsewhere here, his parents could be on a ship-his father was at least in 'Flashback', when Tuvok was 22 standard years old.

 

[The Wormhole]

Somehow, I think that Vulcan being destroyed by a Romulan would likely screw any serious chances of reunification.

 

[I am not Spock]

So, if Tuvok is erased from existence, VOY doesn't happen, right? I imagine some fans would not be displeased by this news.

 

[Anwar]

But there's nothing to say Tuvok was erased from history. Like I said, he was from a Vulcan colony which means his parents are probably on that world as Trek XI took place.

And seeing how despite the massive disruptions the timeline managed to re-align itself enough that the TOS crew would all still end up on the same ship together I doubt this will keep the future crews from getting together as well.

 

[KottenFutz]

So, if Tuvok is erased from existence, VOY doesn't happen, right? I imagine some fans would not be displeased by this news.

They could still buy the dvd's, seven seasons worth !!

 

[Traveller]

Somehow, I think that Vulcan being destroyed by a Romulan would likely screw any serious chances of reunification.

We have now 10 000 "emotionally compromised" Vulcans. Many of them might begin to question Surak's teachings, seeing how they didn't prepare them for such a threat to the very existence of the Vulcan people, nor help to prevent it.

You know, non-Surakian Vulcans seem to be very much like Romulans to me. Spock was thirsting for revenge, he didn't offer to rescue the crew of the Narada, not even as a political move.

And now the Federation has some quasi-Romulans in their midst, founding members no less, with a strong urge to go out and retaliate upon the Empire that they see as the agressor for this genocide; Nero's claim that they "stand apart" would be totally irrelevant to them.

The only kind of reunification those Vulcans would accept would be the occupation of Romulus.