Depends on what you mean by "TOS". TOS characters, TOS setting (don't care if it's an alternate timeline). As far as I'm concerned, it is a TOS movie.
I don't quite like Abrams' attitude
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Depends on what you mean by "TOS". TOS characters, TOS setting (don't care if it's an alternate timeline). As far as I'm concerned, it is a TOS movie.
Why did you assume I was being negative?
I didn't.
WorfSucksDax
Ensign
I dont neet a bolt by bolt either, I just wish the whole thing wasnt fastened together with blu-tack...
Im sorry, but the novelisations, it wasnt those that launched him. I again dont understand your argument, im not saying the character couldnt grow into someone like Kirk, its just a different Kirk than the one we had before, im not saying its necessarily a bad thing, old Kirk had been done. When Q changes Picards backstory, you get a totally different Picard, thats what happens when you radically change a persons early life. I mean if we took DNA of you, but then changed your early lfe dramatically, you would still be you, but you wouldnt act exactly as you do.
Im sorry, but the novelisations, it wasnt those that launched him. I again dont understand your argument, im not saying the character couldnt grow into someone like Kirk, its just a different Kirk than the one we had before, im not saying its necessarily a bad thing, old Kirk had been done. When Q changes Picards backstory, you get a totally different Picard, thats what happens when you radically change a persons early life. I mean if we took DNA of you, but then changed your early lfe dramatically, you would still be you, but you wouldnt act exactly as you do.
Literally a different Kirk. We are actually told in the movie that the 'real' Kirk is off in another universe somewhere. That was one of my problems with this film really.
But that's just it. I don't see a "different Kirk". I see a young Kirk.
Were you in your late teens, early twenties just like who you were/are in your early thirties?
I know I wasn't. I mean, somethings are the same, but some things are different. Grow up, mature, assimilate new experiences and knowledge.
But to me, the character felt QUITE familiar.
Were you in your late teens, early twenties just like who you were/are in your early thirties?
I know I wasn't. I mean, somethings are the same, but some things are different. Grow up, mature, assimilate new experiences and knowledge.
But to me, the character felt QUITE familiar.
It did feel familiar, he was a young brash Kirk, although he was a little rough because of the lack of a father.
WorfSucksDax
Ensign
Right. I'm in my early twenties now, same sort of age as Kirk in the film, no? I'm pretty damn sure that if someone went back and killed off my Dad and turned me into someone who started barfights I would be a very different person. Again, still me, just a DIFFERENT me.
I mean ok, you use the word 'familiar', but doesnt that word indicate something quite casual, sometims someone looks familiar or sounds familiar to someone elses, but they are different people.
I mean ok, you use the word 'familiar', but doesnt that word indicate something quite casual, sometims someone looks familiar or sounds familiar to someone elses, but they are different people.
We really aren't going to know how different this Kirk is until he matures a little, when the character is in his thirties, then we will see what differences there really are between Shatner and Pine.
What kind of lad to you believe Kirk was? Well behaved? Boy Scout-ish?
Interesting that anyone who has actually had a chance to depict it has shown him to be anything but.
startrekrcks
Fleet Captain
He did portray a younger Kirk but wasn't that the point of this film
WorfSucksDax
Ensign
Mitchell: 'Hey, man, I remember you back at the Academy; a stack of books with legs! The only thing I ever heard from an upperclassman was, "Watch out for Lt. Kirk! In his class, you either think, or sink.'- From 'Where no Man has Gone Before'.
Yeah, I'm pretty sure thats canon, seems that was a chance to show what he was like. Any thoughts?
What about his prior commissions, he didnt learn anything on any of those commands that affected his later life at all? Just skip 'em and he'll be the same?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure thats canon, seems that was a chance to show what he was like. Any thoughts?
What about his prior commissions, he didnt learn anything on any of those commands that affected his later life at all? Just skip 'em and he'll be the same?
Yes. He wasn't an upperclassman in that memory. Mitchell was a cadet, Kirk was a junior officer on a staff/teaching assignment at the Academy. He clearly had had some experiences between his youth and that period in life where he had gone from being the kid who cheated on the Kobyashi Maru to "the stack of books with legs".
Nothing about being "the same", exactly. But we are more than the sum of our experiences. I am of the opinion that, for example, if there are truly "alternate universes" and there are infinite "mes" out there, no matter how different each "me" is, I would still be able to recognize "me", as would most who know me well.
So far, I've yet to see anything about PineKirk that is different from ShatnerKirk in any meaningful way. It FEELS like the same character to me.
WorfSucksDax
Ensign
Im not going to bother replying, just reread everything and see if it sinks in...
Char Aznable
Lieutenant Commander
I think people put too much stock in that, "stack of books with legs," line. Firstly, that line can mean many things and doesn't necessarily have to mean that Kirk was a book worm in his youth. It could easily be a term to refer to him as something of a walking encyclopedia (which Kirk seems to be in XI in his suprising knowledge of xeno linguistics and his graduating in three years). Aside from that, the line is from the second pilot, when the characters were still being defined. Details about characters and settings frequently changed in TOS by way of simple throw away line (Vulcans vs Vulcanians, Vulcan never being conquered vs Vulcan having been conquered, how much emotion Spock has, etc.), so I don't think one throwaway line whose contents are never mentioned again from Where No Man Has Gone Before doesn't need to be taken as some sacred cow.
Hey, there's a "Rick Berman's an asshole" thread.
I was watching one of the documentary thingies on the two-disc DVD, and J.J.'s always saying that Star Trek was "a geeky talkfest", and "Star Trek is classical music, while Star Wars is rock n' roll. Star Trek needed some of that", as well as "Empire Strikes Back had a fast pace. Star Trek needed that too."
Um... excuse me? Yes ESB has action scenes, but it's pretty slow-paced IMO.
Also, if Rick Berman said such things about THE TREK, he'd be dead.
Discuss.
Actually, JJ did NOT say Star Wars was Rock and Roll, one of the writers said that.
Also, he did NOT say that ESB had a fast pace. He said he LIKED the pace of the star wars trilogy.
I realize you think he should begin and end every sentence with an apology, but there's really no need to flat out put words in his mouth.
trevanian
Rear Admiral
All the Finnegan stuff in SHORE LEAVE seems to leverage off WNMHGB
Char Aznable
Lieutenant Commander
That's a good point, but its not always true that bookworms are the only ones to be hazed by upperclassmen.
No, but Kirk does describe himself as "positively grim." Of course, that Kirk grew up with a father and in a stable household (but for the incident on Tarsus IV) so he's bound to be different. (That Shatner's Kirk was not engineered to snare bad boy loving teeny boppers might have something to do with it, too, but that's out-of-universe.)
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