Emotions.

[RoJoHen]

No offense, but I think you're thinking too much about the wrong things. You say you're angry all the time, but you don't say why. Do you even know why? You say you are very in tune with your emotions, but you're not even sure why this emotion is there. Anger is a perfectly natural emotion. Trying to purge it is unhealthy.

I used to be sad all the time. I had never really been sad (not really) until I was about 18. I realized it was a result of a bad experience I had with my high school best friend. In short, he betrayed my trust, and we stopped being friends. As a result (and I didn't even know it at the time), I had stopped trusting people. I became very isolated. It wasn't until I finally allowed people in again that I finally managed to make a new group of friends. It still took some time, but eventually I worked past it. Now I'm happy most of the time.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Ah, that explains why you are so desperate to believe that you didn't experience anger before 12. You did! You state that you experienced other feelings that share the same foundation as anger. If you think that you didn't experience anger as well, you're just deluding yourself.

You experienced anger. It probably wasn't as intense as the later anger and, hence, it was more forgetable. It's just that the new anger is both more recent and more intense that your childhood anger. Plus, you really want to believe that there is a pre-anger state that you can take refuge in.

You cannot return to a state in your childhood that did not exist. Instead of this wild goose chase you should do something practical, such as anger management or other counseling. I say this with the best of intentions with no insult intended. You should do this for your own good.

Mr Awe

Meaning no offense, I think I know my mind a bit better than you do. Anger management is not neccessary. It seems to me I'm giving the (completely mistaken) impression that I'm talking about walking around with my face red, eyes bulging, teeth bared, about to scream in people's faces. I hate confrontation. Displaying aggression is not something I am naturally inclined to do. I feel anger now because I am damaged, unhealthy. I'm not saying its unhealthy for other people, but to me it is. Anyway, you say frustration etc is the same as anger. I say not. either way we agree I felt that, so I don't see what the problem there is. You insist I felt anger while acknowledging our definitions appear to be different.

And again, to me, frustration, etc are not the same as anger. For anger there must be aggression (in feeling, not neccessarily in behaviour). Aggression is to me a response that I only experienced after I began suffering quite severe abuse. It is not something I experienced before hand.

 

[RoJoHen]

Ah, that explains why you are so desperate to believe that you didn't experience anger before 12. You did! You state that you experienced other feelings that share the same foundation as anger. If you think that you didn't experience anger as well, you're just deluding yourself.

You experienced anger. It probably wasn't as intense as the later anger and, hence, it was more forgetable. It's just that the new anger is both more recent and more intense that your childhood anger. Plus, you really want to believe that there is a pre-anger state that you can take refuge in.

You cannot return to a state in your childhood that did not exist. Instead of this wild goose chase you should do something practical, such as anger management or other counseling. I say this with the best of intentions with no insult intended. You should do this for your own good.

Mr Awe

I'm inclined to agree with this. Just because you don't remember experiencing a particular emotion when you were little doesn't mean you didn't. And saying "I'm very aware of my mind" and "My memory is awesome" is not evidence of your past.

I was usually a happy kid. I don't remember particular instances in my childhood where I was angry, but I don't doubt that it happened. Unless there is something physically wrong with your brain that prevented you from experiencing anger when you were younger, I'm certain that you did.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

No offense, but I think you're thinking too much about the wrong things. You say you're angry all the time, but you don't say why. Do you even know why? You say you are very in tune with your emotions, but you're not even sure why this emotion is there. Anger is a perfectly natural emotion. Trying to purge it is unhealthy.

Yes, I know why I'm angry and I know why it's there. And what's natural to some people isn't natural to all. If you think aggression is somehow a healthy default state of mind, I'd be quite concerned! I know I've never been copmpetitive in the way other people seem to be- maybe I didn't have an active anger response because aggression was never an instinctive response in the absence of a drive to competition?

Thank you for helping me with this, though, everyone . I appreciate it.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I don't remember particular instances in my childhood where I was angry, but I don't doubt that it happened.

Why? If your argument is that "we can't accurately remember", why is your statement here any more believable than mine? How do you know it happened?

Unless there is something physically wrong with your brain that prevented you from experiencing anger when you were younger, I'm certain that you did.

Why? Why are you certain? Again, why do you assume you know my childhood mind if you're convinced I can't know it?

 

[Mr Awe]

DN, I won't try to convince you any more. However, I'll just say that everything you've written since my last post really just reconfirms what I am saying.

And, if you suffered abuse, you should seek counseling! That goes without saying!! There's nothing wrong with that. You say you are unhealthy, well that might be the cure. I wish you the best.

Mr Awe

 

[Deranged Nasat]

DN, I won't try to convince you any more. However, I'll just say that everything you've written since my last post really just reconfirms what I am saying.

And, if you suffered abuse, you should seek counseling! That goes without saying!! There's nothing wrong with that. You say you are unhealthy, well that might be the cure. I wish you the best.

Mr Awe

Well, thank you. Though I'm not convinced by your argument. It seems to me you're just stating that This Is So without any reason other than you think it is. Please don't be offended by that, I'm grateful for your help!

 

[Mr Awe]

No, it genuinely appears that you are trying to avoid some truths and obfuscate other things by focusing on the wrong things. Not all mind you. But some. But that's true of everyone.

Mr Awe

 

[T'Baio]

It's like watching a patient on the therapist's couch telling the therapist they are wrong no matter what the therapist says. Eventually the therapist is going to say; "So why are you here?"

 

[Venardhi]

I think you're just making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Water can be sweet, a carrot can be sweeter, an apple even sweeter, candy even sweeter. Once you've experienced candy that carrot doesn't taste very sweet anymore, but it doesn't make it any less sweet than it has always been.

I'd say it is safe to say you never experienced emotionally mature and understood 'anger' until that age, but the elements of anger were all present and most certainly experienced to some level or another. I remember the first time I was inconsolably sad, irrationally angry, etc. but those were emotions that I was almost certainly capable of earlier- I simply had no reason to experience them until that moment.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I think you're just making this more complicated than it needs to be.

Water can be sweet, a carrot can be sweeter, an apple even sweeter, candy even sweeter. Once you've experienced candy that carrot doesn't taste very sweet anymore, but it doesn't make it any less sweet than it has always been.

I'd say it is safe to say you never experienced emotionally mature and understood 'anger' until that age, but the elements of anger were all present and most certainly experienced to some level or another. I remember the first time I was inconsolably sad, irrationally angry, etc. but those were emotions that I was almost certainly capable of earlier- I simply had no reason to experience them until that moment.

Hmmm, but if that were the case, why do I not have similiar concerns about other emotions? If we're talking about emotional maturity and understanding, then I know perfectly well how childish feelings develop into more complex adult perspectives. This isn't about emotions full stop, but about a particular emotion.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

It's like watching a patient on the therapist's couch telling the therapist they are wrong no matter what the therapist says. Eventually the therapist is going to say; "So why are you here?"

A therapist's job is to listen to a paitent and advise, not to lecture them from a pre-determined position held by the therapist before they even started hearing the paitent's concerns. Otherwise the paitent will start thinking "why am I bothering? This isn't helping".

No, I'm not insisting people are wrong "no matter what they say", I'm saying you're wrong because of what you say. Please don't think me rude, because I am grateful you've taken the time to try and offer some advice, and it was most kind of you, but I'm not "here" to have people presume to say "we know your mind better than you do, so be quiet and accept my wisdom".

Maybe for other children anger, competitiveness and aggression are normal? But they weren't for me. I thank you for your input, but you do not know my mind better than I do, it seems to me (and I am sorry if this offends) that you've simply found that what I describe goes against your pre-conceived ideas as to how things work, so you've concluded "well, he must be wrong".

I'm reminded suddenly of a case study where a child who was raised away from civilized society was reintroduced to it. She was asking about colours, and pointed to green and was told "green". She then pointed to another shade of green and was told..."green". She was confused. The two were clearly different, yet everyone insisted to her they were the same colour. Was she wrong? No. It's just that society has arbitarily decided to split categorization of colours into blocks that are very wide not specific. Our colour scheme could be far tighter. I believe we're having a similar problem with anger as I define it. I point to a particular feeling, and you say "anger", and so do I. Then I point to a second feeling, frustration or whatever, and again you say "anger", when I see it as distinct. I'm saying I never experienced the first feeling prior to a certain age. I did experience the second. But because you see no distinction worth noting between the two, you say that I must have felt one because it's the same as the other. I've only seen one colour, not the second, but as far as everyone's concerned, I've seen green, end of story.

I wonder if that helps? Is that the problem we're grappling with here? I know the issue likely lies with how I'm defining anger, but whatever we call it there is a distinct emotional response that I only started experiencing after my mistreatment. Thus I've concluded- perhaps irrationally- that it is a result of damage and health requires its being cured.

 

[Mr Awe]

^^ I'm trying to resist the urge of participating further in this thread. I can see that nothing is going anywhere. But, alas I can't. I'm weak!

It sounds like you're experiencing rage. That's not really a new emotion, though. It's just anger, but amped WAY up. At age 12 you had a greater negative stimulus than before. That provoked more anger than before, too such a level that you can now call it rage. It's not green, it's a BRIGHT green.

I have to no advice to you that you'll probably heed. But, I strongly suggest counseling and that you try to deal with the anger rather than avoid and explain it away.

Mr Awe

 

[Deranged Nasat]

^^ I'm trying to resist the urge of participating further in this thread. I can see that nothing is going anywhere. But, alas I can't. I'm weak!

It sounds like you're experiencing rage. That's not really a new emotion, though. It's just anger, but amped WAY up. At age 12 you had a greater negative stimulus than before. That provoked more anger than before, too such a level that you can now call it rage. It's not green, it's a BRIGHT green.

I have to no advice to you that you'll probably heed. But, I strongly suggest counseling and that you try to deal with the anger rather than avoid and explain it away.

Mr Awe

The emotion is not healthy, though. It should be removed. Prior to experiencing what I term anger, I was psychologically healthy. I was capable of frustration, annoyance, disliking certain people, defending my opinions, taking offense, etc, but without my rationality or friendly demeanor being compromised. The development of anger is a symptom of my psychological instability following my mistreatment. I am not an aggressive or confrontational person by nature, and I functioned well without anger. Now, I feel it and when I show it it distresses me because that is not who I am. I don't need this particular shade of green to make my house comfortable and attractive and homely, I always had some green in the colour scheme, as you all say, and in many shades- but not this particular garish shade. Now that shade is splattered all over the walls and interfering with the decor. Should I not clean it off?

 

[Mr Awe]

I'd agree that persistant anger and rage are not healthy. But, where you say that it should be "removed", I'd say "treated" instead. There's a huge difference. For a medical analogy, you don't alway just cut stuff out, remove things. There's different approaches depending on the specific conditions. Maybe you need medicine instead. And, you should not treat yourself, you're not a doctor. Go to have it professionally treated.

And, occassional anger is not unhealthy. Unhealthy would be to not have anger at all. The key to a healthy emotional state is to have a good balance of emotions at proper times and at proper, non-disruptive levels. This is not a case where it would be good, or even possible, to cut an emotion out. Instead, treat the problematic emotion so that it's at proper levels.

Mr Awe

 

[Deranged Nasat]

I'd agree that persistant anger and rage are not healthy. But, where you say that it should be "removed", I'd say "treated" instead. There's a huge difference. For a medical analogy, you don't alway just cut stuff out, remove things. There's different approaches depending on the specific conditions. Maybe you need medicine instead. And, you should not treat yourself, you're not a doctor. Go to have it professionally treated.

And, occassional anger is not unhealthy. Unhealthy would be to not have anger at all. The key to a healthy emotional state is to have a good balance of emotions at proper times and at proper, non-disruptive levels. This is not a case where it would be good, or even possible, to cut an emotion out. Instead, treat the problematic emotion so that it's at proper levels.

Mr Awe

Well, the anger is persistant, but usually low-burning. The rage isn't at all persistant, it only comes along once every four or five months or so for a few minutes.

 

[Mr Awe]

Well, as someone else said, why are you here then? It certainly sounds like it is bothering you more than just a bit.

At any rate, you have my advice. I don't think you'll ever feel better without some professional treatment.

Mr Awe

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Well, as someone else said, why are you here then? It certainly sounds like it is bothering you more than just a bit.

At any rate, you have my advice. I don't think you'll ever feel better without some professional treatment.

Mr Awe

Actually, I do have professional help. I see therapists here at the university. This was sort of a sounding board of sorts, as I don't wish to depend entirely on them. I wanted to see if anyone here had anything to share before I bring my latest, er, baggage forward. Thank you for taking the time to respond so often, Mr. Awe.

 

[JustKate]

Hmmm, but if that were the case, why do I not have similiar concerns about other emotions? If we're talking about emotional maturity and understanding, then I know perfectly well how childish feelings develop into more complex adult perspectives. This isn't about emotions full stop, but about a particular emotion.

The reason you don't have similar concerns about other emotions is that, presumably, feeling those emotions doesn't bother you as much as feeling anger does. You are prepared to deal with sadness, prepared to deal with love, prepared to deal with all sorts of things, but you, my friend, really really really really really really do NOT want to feel angry.

For whatever reason - and I'm not saying you don't have some good reasons, because how would I know? - you consider anger to be a wholly negative emotion, at least for yourself. But as Mr. Awe and others have pointed out, it isn't always negative, not if it's properly used. Anger can be the thing that kick-starts you into necessary action. The key is "necessary" - and the other key is that if the action is necessary - the injustice needs to be addressed, the wrong needs to be righted, the good fight needs to be fought - you have to have something else to keep you going once the anger dies away.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Hmmm, but if that were the case, why do I not have similiar concerns about other emotions? If we're talking about emotional maturity and understanding, then I know perfectly well how childish feelings develop into more complex adult perspectives. This isn't about emotions full stop, but about a particular emotion.

The reason you don't have similar concerns about other emotions is that, presumably, feeling those emotions doesn't bother you as much as feeling anger does. You are prepared to deal with sadness, prepared to deal with love, prepared to deal with all sorts of things, but you, my friend, really really really really really really do NOT want to feel angry.

For whatever reason - and I'm not saying you don't have some good reasons, because how would I know? - you consider anger to be a wholly negative emotion, at least for yourself. But as Mr. Awe and others have pointed out, it isn't always negative, not if it's properly used. Anger can be the thing that kick-starts you into necessary action. The key is "necessary" - and the other key is that if the action is necessary - the injustice needs to be addressed, the wrong needs to be righted, the good fight needs to be fought - you have to have something else to keep you going once the anger dies away.

I used to believe that, but recently I'm not so sure. I used to believe I could try to incorporate anger into myself in a controlled, productive manner and apply it to making things better. Maybe I'm backtracking. Maybe this whole "go away anger" business is something I'll get over. But you're quite right I hate feeling angry and I don't think I'm being entirely rational about it.

And yes, it is the only emotion I have difficulty with. Sadness, grief, annoyance, jealousy; all of these I accept as necessary and healthy (as long as they aren't overpowering) just as love, joy, etc. are. Anger, though, is not my friend...

Thank you for the advice.