Classic Doctor Who mythology stories
- Thread starter RoJoHen
- Start date
I'm also slightly anxious. I've liked all three Doctors I've seen, but Tennant is just so great and my favourite Doctor I wonder whether I'll be able to let go easily.
I think we are going to see something of the Mythological Time war we have heard so much about since Dr who came back, and we will see something of it in the last two specials.
I think that's why the Dr had to learn such a hard lesson at the end of TWOM when he tried to change that fixed point in time, i think this is all to do with the Master attempting to bring the Timelords back and the Dr who(pun intended) now knows all to well and has been reminded in the most terrible way of the consequences of trying to change that fixed point in time, even for a timelord.
I hope im right, i would love to see something of the time war on screen.
I think that's why the Dr had to learn such a hard lesson at the end of TWOM when he tried to change that fixed point in time, i think this is all to do with the Master attempting to bring the Timelords back and the Dr who(pun intended) now knows all to well and has been reminded in the most terrible way of the consequences of trying to change that fixed point in time, even for a timelord.
I hope im right, i would love to see something of the time war on screen.
I have this really bad feeling that, when The End of Time is said and done, that...
The Time War won't have happened at all.
There's a sense throughout RTD's four-plus seasons that history itself has gone off the rails, and there are two points where the Doctor realizes that -- the GameStation (where the Great and Bounteous Human Empire has been sidetracked) and The Waters of Mars (where the Doctor tries to put history off-track himself). But there are other incidents, too; Harriet Jones' "Golden Age" didn't happen, for instance.
And we never did find out why the stars were going out in Turn Left.
What if history itself is collapsing? And what if the Doctor has to fix history, by undoing the very thing that sent history off the rails? And what if that event is the Time War?
It doesn't mean the last five years of shows (plus the Doctor's life before "Rose") didn't happen. To the rest of the universe, they didn't. To the Doctor, it's like the Year that Never Happened in Last of the Time Lords.
Maybe that reset button was put there for a reason -- to prepare audiences for a much bigger reset button.
Which would mean that the tenth Doctor sacrifices his life to save all of history. Which is about the biggest ending a Doctor could go for.
It would be funny if the Timelords would then go on to bug him even though he brought them back because they don't remember the Time War.
I'm not sure how I would feel about the Time War not having happened. It's such an important event in the Doctor's life. Also, if the new series hasn't happened for anyone but the Doctor where does that leave his companions, the influence alien invasions have had on humanity, the influence he's had on people?
I'm not sure how I would feel about the Time War not having happened. It's such an important event in the Doctor's life. Also, if the new series hasn't happened for anyone but the Doctor where does that leave his companions, the influence alien invasions have had on humanity, the influence he's had on people?
I'd suggest watching Journey's End again...
I don't think Journey's End is exactly explicit on that point. And the fact that Planet of the Dead makes the point of saying "There's something coming in the dark" indicates that what Journey's End suggests isn't the answer.
late last year and early this year, i watched a bunch of classic Who serials on DVD. the following list are the ones i liked most:
The Tomb of the Cybermen (Second Doctor)
The Invasion (Cybermen, Second Doctor, also has some animated bits in it as they wiped episodes and only sound-tracks survive. it's still good though.)
The War Games (Second Doctor, his final story, features the Time Lords and a renegade Time Lord called The War Chief)
Spearhead From Space (Third Doctor's first story, introduced the Autons and UNIT)
Inferno (Third Doctor, Who's Mirror Universe story)
The Three Doctors (first three Docs together, features more Time Lords and gives some of their history)
Genesis of the Daleks (Fourth Doc, Davros, as mentioned above)
Destiny of the Daleks (Fourth Doc, Davros, pretty much a sequel to Genesis)
City of Death (Fourth Doc. madcap fun)
Battlefield (Seventh Doctor, mixed with Merlin myths)
Remembrance of the Daleks (Seven and Davros in the 1960s)
YMMV
The Tomb of the Cybermen (Second Doctor)
The Invasion (Cybermen, Second Doctor, also has some animated bits in it as they wiped episodes and only sound-tracks survive. it's still good though.)
The War Games (Second Doctor, his final story, features the Time Lords and a renegade Time Lord called The War Chief)
Spearhead From Space (Third Doctor's first story, introduced the Autons and UNIT)
Inferno (Third Doctor, Who's Mirror Universe story)
The Three Doctors (first three Docs together, features more Time Lords and gives some of their history)
Genesis of the Daleks (Fourth Doc, Davros, as mentioned above)
Destiny of the Daleks (Fourth Doc, Davros, pretty much a sequel to Genesis)
City of Death (Fourth Doc. madcap fun)
Battlefield (Seventh Doctor, mixed with Merlin myths)
Remembrance of the Daleks (Seven and Davros in the 1960s)
YMMV
I have this really bad feeling that, when The End of Time is said and done, that...
The Time War won't have happened at all.
There's a sense throughout RTD's four-plus seasons that history itself has gone off the rails, and there are two points where the Doctor realizes that -- the GameStation (where the Great and Bounteous Human Empire has been sidetracked) and The Waters of Mars (where the Doctor tries to put history off-track himself). But there are other incidents, too; Harriet Jones' "Golden Age" didn't happen, for instance.
And we never did find out why the stars were going out in Turn Left.
What if history itself is collapsing? And what if the Doctor has to fix history, by undoing the very thing that sent history off the rails? And what if that event is the Time War?
It doesn't mean the last five years of shows (plus the Doctor's life before "Rose") didn't happen. To the rest of the universe, they didn't. To the Doctor, it's like the Year that Never Happened in Last of the Time Lords.
Maybe that reset button was put there for a reason -- to prepare audiences for a much bigger reset button.
Which would mean that the tenth Doctor sacrifices his life to save all of history. Which is about the biggest ending a Doctor could go for.
You just got me thinking, what if the Dr has already changed his own fixed point in history when he refused to regenerate in the season five finale, could all the events in the next two special be a consequence of the Dr refusal to regenerate........that could be interesting,
that was season 4...
Yes we did. Davros's reality bomb was destroying the fabric of reality and its effects were propagating backwards through time.
I don't want to start another old/new DW argument, but I really have to object to the way you're framing that statement about audience expectations.
I have a degree in theatre. I love theatre, and I love surrealism and stories that deviate from Realism/Naturalism; Cloud 9 by Churchill is pure brilliance, for instance, as is M. Butterfly, and they're both intensely non-Realistic/Naturalistic plays. I do not lack in imagination.
Nor do I mind a production that does the best job it can do with the technology of the era. I don't mind the TARDIS set from DW TOS, and I don't mind the bridge of the Enterprise in the original Star Trek.
However, I also expect consistency in the creative conceits of the art I enjoy. If a film, TV show, or play is being told in the style of Realism/Naturalism, then it needs to stay within that style, and breaks from that style -- such as the film version of Chicago's switches from Realism/Naturalism to Theatricalism -- need to be intentional, the result of stylistic choices.
What I will not tolerate, from any TV show, is a deviation from Realism/Naturalism made because of an economic inability to maintain the Realism/Naturalism style. That's not an artistic choice, that's just demanding the audience do the work of creating the world that you had indicated earlier in the production that you would be doing. It's the equivalent of starting off a production of Long Day's Journey into Night in an expensive, detailed, Naturalistic-style set of the Tyrone household and then switching to a cheap community theatre set after intermission: It's an inconsistent message to the audience about how the production will go about creating the world of the story.
Now, you don't have that problem with the original Doctor Who; that's fine. I do; that's fine. You may think that I'm being unreasonable because of my unwillingness to accept DW TOS's budgetary restraints. That's fine.
But please, don't assume that just because someone has a different set of demands from their TV shows that they therefore lack imagination.
I think you're being a bit hard on the older Doctor Who there Sci - I don't think "stage play" is really very accurate, except maybe for some of the Hartnel stuff and the occasional one like "The Keeper Of Traken". I'm pretty sure The just used that comparison in order to prepare the OP for an undeniably big change in the look and feel of the show - most of the time Old Doctor Who was at least equal to Star Trek TOS - and, you know, at least it tried to deliver on its premise, with admittedly fairly variable degrees of success - I really do think you have to give it props for not playing safe with the budget they had though - because it really did have some major successes (Daleks - for one).
"Stage play" is accurate for early Doctor Who, because that's what British television of the time was like. American television grew out of Hollywood and film. British television grew out of London theater. Doctor Who's approach changed a couple of times -- the major change was the transition to color, but there was also the changes that JNT effected a decade later to make the show "glitzier." But when you're talking Doctor Who, especially early Doctor Who, called it a "filmed stage play" isn't wrong.
One odd thing, and I really hope I'm misremembering this from About Time -- while videotape says "cheap" to American viewers, videotape said "quality" to British viewers.
Evil of the Daleks and "City on the Edge of Forever" were roughly contemporaneous. Evil was made at over twice the length of "City" on one-third the budget. For what exists of it, it's clear that the BBC got their money's worth.
It's ok to not like Classic Who, Sci. And The didn't say that everyone who doesn't like it lacks imagination. He was just trying to prepare RoJoHen for its different production values.
I don't think even early Who comes off as a stage play, unless you people are referring to the practice of recording it 'live on tape', i.e. complete with gaffes and errors.
I think the props and coulisses were well done, quite detailed and pretty elaborate. They tried their best with the special effects. I don't quite understand what Sci means. Doctor Who doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. Maybe the main perception problem lies in the fact that US tv series were always a lot more expensive than European ones. Compared to other European series I don't see a big difference in Who's production values. More often than not, I'm impressed with what they did.
And The didn't say that everyone who doesn't like it lacks imagination. He was just trying to prepare RoJoHen for its different production values.I don't think even early Who comes off as a stage play, unless you people are referring to the practice of recording it 'live on tape', i.e. complete with gaffes and errors.
I think the props and coulisses were well done, quite detailed and pretty elaborate. They tried their best with the special effects. I don't quite understand what Sci means. Doctor Who doesn't pretend to be anything it isn't. Maybe the main perception problem lies in the fact that US tv series were always a lot more expensive than European ones. Compared to other European series I don't see a big difference in Who's production values. More often than not, I'm impressed with what they did.
