Abramsverse: How does the polictic landscape look now?

[FreddyE]

I´m wondering...since there are now only 10.000 vulcans left..how does that change the political landscape compared to the prime universe?

I guess the vulcans will now have quite less influence on politics. Without the "restraining quality" of their logic the desision makers might now decide more harshly.

 

[Horga'hn]

The Vulcans have already established themselves as a potent force in politics and all have the potential to gain invaluable experience through their longevity. If anything, their limited numbers will make them even more valuable to the Federation than before.

 

[Traveller]

Well I could imagine that their top priority being the colonisation of NewVulcan, rising the birthrate (not that easy when you can only procreate every seven years), and preserving their culture - the Federation won't get that much Vulcan input in the near future. Internal matters have precedence. That should have effects on the Federation, Vulcan was one of its founders.

What I wonder is how the relations to the Romulans will be changed by that. It was a Romulan aggressor, after all, never mind that he was a rogue.

 

[Lindley]

(not that easy when you can only procreate every seven years)

I don't think anything medically *restricts* them from procreating outside of pon farr if they wish to.

 

[Horga'hn]

Another thing to consider - with Spock remaining to play an active role in rebuilding the Vulcan race, knowing full well that the future has been irrevocably changed anyway, he will certainly bring more 24th century technology to the table (not to mention first-hand knowledge of every major crisis for the next century - V'ger, Genesis, the whalesong probe, his half-brother's plan, the explosion of Praxis, the Borg and the Dominion). The advantage to the Federation (and thus Vulcankind) will be unparalleled.

 

[Kegg]

First contact may have already been made with the Cardassians, which may complicate things. And the Organians probably haven't used their handwavium to prevent a war with the Klingons, so that might be a concern in a couple of years.

Really though, aside from the kablooie of Vulcan there hasn't been any major changes to Trek's body politic that we know about. It could be reasonably assumed that the loss of one of the founding worlds of the Federation hurts it a little, though, and I'll be interested to see whether the future films will touch on this at all.

(not that easy when you can only procreate every seven years)

I don't think anything medically *restricts* them from procreating outside of pon farr if they wish to.

Yep. They just have to a minimum of every seven years or they'll die. Humans are consequently less sex-prone than our Vulcan pals.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

First contact may have already been made with the Cardassians, which may complicate things. And the Organians probably haven't used their handwavium to prevent a war with the Klingons, so that might be a concern in a couple of years.

Premature first contact with the Cardassians does seem like a strong possibility here.

I dunno if any of you would be interested, but I did write a fanfic that takes this on and other political questions. I also factor in what happened in the Laurentian system, and how apparent it was that Starfleet's resources were far from what they are in the 24th century (if they got stretched thin enough to call up cadets, it HAD to be bad)...

http://www.adastrafanfic.com/viewstory.php?sid=340

Feel free to PM with comments, unless you feel that any points of the story warrant being in the main thread.

 

[Matt4511]

What we know:

1. Vulcan has been destroyed, and at least seven Federation starships were lost defending it.

2. Forty seven Klingon warships (types unknown) were destroyed.

3. When Vulcan was attacked, Starfleet was heavily deployed in the Laurentian system. It can be implied that they were conducting combat operations there, but this would involve a fairly literal reading of the words "engaged in."

What we don't know:

1. How many Vulcans lived off of Vulcan itself? It could easily be millions upon millions, scattered across colonies and other Federation member worlds as ex-pats. Of this unknown number, how many will return to nuVulcan?

2. How much industrial/economic/scientific weight did the planet Vulcan itself hold within the UFP in 2258? How easily can the Federation absorb the loss of the planet? Related to this, how much military manpower will be needed by the Vulcan diaspora to settle a new home?

3. Given the catastrophe at Vulcan, can the Federation somehow extract itself from the Laurentian situation and deploy the fleet closer to home? They no doubt wish to, but circumstances may not permit it.

4. How serious a loss to overall Klingon strength does 47 starships constitute?

5. How long was the Narada orbiting Earth for, and while there, did she engage any starships or space stations? We know there was at least one giant station in orbit when the fleet left, is it still there?

Reasonable conjecture (in my opinion):

1. The seven starships known to have been lost at Vulcan probably do NOT constitute the extent of Starfleet's losses there. No doubt Starfleet had facilities and stations in the Vulcan system, they have probably been destroyed. Indeed, the massive saucer section that the Enterprise had to maneuver under when it dropped out of warp was so massive as to have almost certainly been part of a space station or starbase, perhaps one of a similar design to the one seen over Earth. Also, given the amount of debris in orbit, it's certainly possible that Vulcan also had a half-dozen or so starships handy when the Narada arrived, which were lost. (Or, perhaps the eight ships sent from Earth were just part of a larger rescue operation, with any available ships from other nearby UFP systems arriving before the ships from Earth did, and facing immediate destruction).

2. Starfleet will likely be recalling ships from exploratory missions to bolster local defences.

3. The Romulans are probably finding themselves in a bit of a pickle. The other two major powers have taken heavy blows, and they time may be right to attack.

4. Likewise other minor powers throughout the Klingon and Federation frontiers.

 

[FreddyE]

@1.

Spock says in the movie that there are only 10.000 vulcans left...it´s not like him to be exact. If there were other Vulcans on other planets I think he would have said something like "only 10.000 Vulcans left of those who lived on the planet" And if there were "millions upon millions" left...I don´t think he would have spoken of "belonging to an endangered species".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed. linky

 

[Traveller]

^ Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed. linky

If that is true, Spock's comment of belonging to an endangered species doesn't make sense.

As for the procreation every seven years, I may have read that in one of the novels (I know they're not canon!). But it could be an adaption to the planet's climate - perhaps you have something like a rain season every seven or so years, providing better conditions for having offspring than during the dry, hot years in between.

 

[DataLives]

Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed

So, either 10 thousand survived the obliteration of the planet they were sitting on at the time, or 10 thousand were working on starships and bases at that moment? Not "living" off world exactly?

Another gaping writing error for the Trek fanworld to patch up. Just make it up as you go along, screenwriters, 40 years of story-telling, world-building and timelines do not matter.

Sorry.... I love Star Trek, but I just cannot handle that film.... no disrespect to any fan who does like it though... I guess I am not as tolerant.

I shall stop ruining the thread party and try to read along.

DataLives.

 

[Matt4511]

Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed

So, either 10 thousand survived the obliteration of the planet they were sitting on at the time, or 10 thousand were working on starships and bases at that moment? Not "living" off world exactly?

If I recall, nuSpock's exact words were along the lines of, "I estimate only 10,000 have survived." Implying survived the attack on Vulcan. His comments later on about being on the brink of extinction would certainly make sense if the loss of the homeworld meant the death of 99% of the Vulcan population. That would still leave sixty million, however.

I'm not obsessed with the numbers, they could be higher, lower, whatever. My only point is that there is absolutely a solid case to be made that there are still lots of pointy ears logicaling about.

I shall stop ruining the thread party and try to read along.

DataLives.

Thanks.

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed. linky

If that is true, Spock's comment of belonging to an endangered species doesn't make sense.

As for the procreation every seven years, I may have read that in one of the novels (I know they're not canon!). But it could be an adaption to the planet's climate - perhaps you have something like a rain season every seven or so years, providing better conditions for having offspring than during the dry, hot years in between.

He exaggerated

 

[Horga'hn]

logicaling about.

Sublime.

 

[Sci]

^ Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed. linky

If that is true, Spock's comment of belonging to an endangered species doesn't make sense.

Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! What possible reason could a man who's just witnessed the annihilation of his homeworld, an act of attempted genocide, and the murder of his mother have to be thinking a bit irrationally and jump to a hyperbolic conclusion?

[
Another gaping writing error for the Trek fanworld to patch up. Just make it up as you go along, screenwriters,

That's what the writers of Star Trek have always done -- make it up as they go along!

40 years of story-telling, world-building and timelines do not matter.

No, they don't -- not as much as telling a good story.

That's why they created the new timeline -- to give them the toys of Trek to play with while still leaving the Prime Timeline for other writers in the future.

 

[Traveller]

^ Orci and Kurtzman have said that the 10,000 does NOT include Vulcans who were offworld at the time the planet was destroyed. linky

If that is true, Spock's comment of belonging to an endangered species doesn't make sense.

Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! What possible reason could a man who's just witnessed the annihilation of his homeworld, an act of attempted genocide, and the murder of his mother have to be thinking a bit irrationally and jump to a hyperbolic conclusion?

His comment would make sense if there were in fact only 10 000 survivors left. If there are some millions left, it would not make sense. And there's a wide enough gap between ten thousend and several millions that even hyperbole can't bridge it.

I was referring to the writers' comment about the numbers - it simply doesn't make sense in combination with what was said on screen. I don't understand why this is so upsetting to you.

Spock's estimation of 10 000 could be an error due to his shock. But the number was never corrected in the film, not even at the end when he met his older self, so to me, the number is valid. Which means that his race is at the brink of extinction and the writers talked nonsense. Happy?

 

[Sci]

If that is true, Spock's comment of belonging to an endangered species doesn't make sense.

Which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! What possible reason could a man who's just witnessed the annihilation of his homeworld, an act of attempted genocide, and the murder of his mother have to be thinking a bit irrationally and jump to a hyperbolic conclusion?

His comment would make sense if there were in fact only 10 000 survivors left. If there are some millions left, it would not make sense. And there's a wide enough gap between ten thousend and several millions that even hyperbole can't bridge it.

No, but Spock's not being in a rational state of mind does. People don't always think rationally when they're overwhelmed; the idea of Spock jumping to a completely inaccurate conclusion because he's so emotionally traumatized at that moment is not unreasonable.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Spock couldn't possibly know about all of the offworld Vulcans. However many there were, he was most likely not even thinking of them when he dictated his log. He couldn't be expected to know (even in his most rational moments) exactly how many Vulcans were living off planet or where they were. He *might* know of other Vulcans serving in Starfleet, but that would be about it.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

I've heard it suggested in numerous fanfics that the Vulcans were quite insular and did not leave their homeworld with the frequency of, say, humans or Cardassians. If that were the case, the 10,000 could indeed be the number of those who were able to escape Vulcan before the implosion, as well as those offworld. Not quite sure about the canon grounding for that degree of insularity, but it would explain things.