Some thoughts after watching the movie on blu-ray

[digger]

As much as I loved this movie, as with all movies I love, there were some issues I've had with it after watching it in the theaters the five times I did (and I've noticed other people on the board talk about these same issues, so I know it's not just me). However, after watching it on blu-ray, I've noticed a couple of "explanations" for these issues. I'd like to know people's thoughts on them.

Issue 1. Why is Nero, when in the past, trying to destroy Vulcan and the rest of the Federation in order to save Romulus? Why not just go to his home world and say, "hey, in X years, a supernova is going to destroy the planet. Get out!"

Explanation 1. Perhaps Nero didn't know that it was the supernova that destroyed Romulus. Or perhaps he thought it was Spock/the Federation that caused it. From what I can infer, Nero and crew were coming home to Romulus as his world was being destroyed. So seeing a Federation ship while his world is being destroyed is kind of like seeing someone hovering over a dead body with a knife in their hands--very easy to draw the wrong conclusion from that.

Issue 2. Why does it take only minutes to go from Earth to Vulcan at the beginning of the conflict but much longer for the Enterprise to go from Vulcan to Earth after Vulcan was destroyed? It took so long, in fact, that Kirk had time to be stranded on a planet, travel 14 kilometers to a Starfleet base (in bad weather, no less), and in the meantime, be chased by two creatures and mind meld with Spock Prime.

Explanation 2. I never picked this up the five times I saw this in theaters, but, after Vulcan is destroyed, the Enterprise doesn't head back to Earth. On Spock's orders, it heads to the Laurentian system first. Not knowing where that is, it could take them any numbers of light years out of the way.

Issue 3. This is related to issue 2. Why does the Narada take so long to get from destroyed Vulcan to Earth? It didn't go to the Laurentian system first.

Explanation 3. Nero doesn't necessarilly head to Earth at maximum warp--or perhaps he makes a detour first. Because he wanted time to interrogate Pike to try to extract helpful information.

Issue 4. When Nero and crew encounter Spock Prime's ship just after the Jellyfish comes through the black hole, Ayel (Nero's first officer) says something to the effect of "should we destroy it?" Nero responds, "Kill him? I want him to watch!"

What is it that Nero wants Spock Prime to watch? It can't be the destruction of Vulcan, because, since Nero has yet to capture the Jellyfish, he does not yet have the Red Matter. Nor does he probably even know of it if we are to accept Explanation 1 above that the Narada was returning to Romulus as it was being destroyed, and its crew hadn't had time to gather information about its destruction or the fact that Spock Prime was attempting to save Romulus.

Explanation 4. ??????---I would appreciate someone else's thoughts on this as to a possible explanation.

 

[Jeri]

The Enterprise does follow the Narada away from Vulcan on their trajectory toward Earth, until Spock changes it to the Laurentian System. As far as we know, the Laurentian System could be on the far side of Earth from Vulcan, and they'd have to go that direction anyway.

As for Nero speaking to Romulus, the reason all the Romulans died and weren't evacuated was politics to begin with. The government would not believe Nero or Spock or anybody from the Federation when they informed them of the impending danger. They were typically very stubborn and turned a deaf ear. That's in the prequel comic book, "Countdown." There's no chance anybody would have paid attention to Nero twenty five years earlier.

 

[digger]

As for Nero speaking to Romulus, the reason all the Romulans died and weren't evacuated was politics to begin with. The government would not believe Nero or Spock or anybody from the Federation when they informed them of the impending danger. They were typically very stubborn and turned a deaf ear. That's in the prequel comic book, "Countdown." There's no chance anybody would have paid attention to Nero twenty five years earlier.

I didn't read the comics, but from what I gathered from the movie, the Romuluns either asked the Federation for help or the Federation offerred and the Romuluns accepted. There was a scene, during Kirk and Spock Prime's mind meld, I believe, that showed this. But keep in mind, just because the Romulun government asked for/accepted help, does not mean ALL Romuluns knew the Federation was helping--just as governments nowadays don't necessarilly share all their intel with their citizens.

 

[Jeri]

Spock and Nero went before the Romulan council, so they were invited to speak. But the council didn't follow their advice and evacuate the planet, from what I remember. They ignored Nero's advice; he'd already seen the supernova's destruction elsewhere. It's why when he says, "We don't speak for the Empire: we stand apart," it's all the more significant. I guess I'd have to dig up the comic to be sure of what I'm remembering.

 

[BenRoethig]

As much as I loved this movie, as with all movies I love, there were some issues I've had with it after watching it in the theaters the five times I did (and I've noticed other people on the board talk about these same issues, so I know it's not just me). However, after watching it on blu-ray, I've noticed a couple of "explanations" for these issues. I'd like to know people's thoughts on them.

Issue 1. Why is Nero, when in the past, trying to destroy Vulcan and the rest of the Federation in order to save Romulus? Why not just go to his home world and say, "hey, in X years, a supernova is going to destroy the planet. Get out!"

Explanation 1. Perhaps Nero didn't know that it was the supernova that destroyed Romulus. Or perhaps he thought it was Spock/the Federation that caused it. From what I can infer, Nero and crew were coming home to Romulus as his world was being destroyed. So seeing a Federation ship while his world is being destroyed is kind of like seeing someone hovering over a dead body with a knife in their hands--very easy to draw the wrong conclusion from that.

Issue 2. Why does it take only minutes to go from Earth to Vulcan at the beginning of the conflict but much longer for the Enterprise to go from Vulcan to Earth after Vulcan was destroyed? It took so long, in fact, that Kirk had time to be stranded on a planet, travel 14 kilometers to a Starfleet base (in bad weather, no less), and in the meantime, be chased by two creatures and mind meld with Spock Prime.

Explanation 2. I never picked this up the five times I saw this in theaters, but, after Vulcan is destroyed, the Enterprise doesn't head back to Earth. On Spock's orders, it heads to the Laurentian system first. Not knowing where that is, it could take them any numbers of light years out of the way.

Issue 3. This is related to issue 2. Why does the Narada take so long to get from destroyed Vulcan to Earth? It didn't go to the Laurentian system first.

Explanation 3. Nero doesn't necessarilly head to Earth at maximum warp--or perhaps he makes a detour first. Because he wanted time to interrogate Pike to try to extract helpful information.

Issue 4. When Nero and crew encounter Spock Prime's ship just after the Jellyfish comes through the black hole, Ayel (Nero's first officer) says something to the effect of "should we destroy it?" Nero responds, "Kill him? I want him to watch!"

What is it that Nero wants Spock Prime to watch? It can't be the destruction of Vulcan, because, since Nero has yet to capture the Jellyfish, he does not yet have the Red Matter. Nor does he probably even know of it if we are to accept Explanation 1 above that the Narada was returning to Romulus as it was being destroyed, and its crew hadn't had time to gather information about its destruction or the fact that Spock Prime was attempting to save Romulus.

Explanation 4. ??????---I would appreciate someone else's thoughts on this as to a possible explanation.

Issue 1: Who says he didn't plan on telling Romulus as well? He not only wanted to save Romulus but make it the dominant power while punishing the Federation for not saving Romulus i the future.

Issue 2: it doesn't take minutes, they just didn't have filler scenes to convey the passage of time. Abrams wanted a more fast paced movie (he says Star Wars style on the DVD).

Issue 3: Plot divice.

Issue 4: I don't know if Nero knew about the red matter or not, but they had something planned. Its not like the Federation could stop him. The red matter could have been in the plan, or it could have been icing on the cake.

 

[digger]

Spock and Nero went before the Romulan council, so they were invited to speak.

I understand you're saying this is from the comic. Am I correct that the comic, though not considered cannon, was still intended to be a prequel to the movie?

If that's correct, then how does the comic account for the fact that, in the movie, Nero and crew are just a bunch of miners, while in the comics, they are standing before the Romulun council?

 

[Jeri]

The comic is a prequel to the movie, and Nero came before the council as someone who had seen the power of the supernova and felt moved to testify about it out of concern for his planet. That is, if I am remembering it correctly. I read it two weeks before the movie; so six months ago.

 

[Pindar]

Even if the Romulan council remain moronically stubborn, know the the time it takes for the supernova to reach Romulas presumably Spock could save the planet this time round.

 

[Traveller]

What I don't understand is why Nero (and the rest of the Narada crew) didn't at least take their own families on board or see to their evacuation somehow. After his experience with the council, Nero should have been aware of the possibility that they wouldn't be able to rescue the planet in time.

 

[bullethead]

What I don't understand is why Nero (and the rest of the Narada crew) didn't at least take their own families on board or see to their evacuation somehow. After his experience with the council, Nero should have been aware of the possibility that they wouldn't be able to rescue the planet in time.

If one goes with the Nero comics, Nero did try to get his wife to come aboard, but she didn't want to give birth to their kid in a cargo hold, especially since she thought that they would be able to save Romulus.

 

[Jeri]

I don't blame her, looking at that filthy, waterlogged place. (I don't get why Pike's torture bed is surrounded by water.)

 

[Trekker4747]

Issue 1. Why is Nero, when in the past, trying to destroy Vulcan and the rest of the Federation in order to save Romulus? Why not just go to his home world and say, "hey, in X years, a supernova is going to destroy the planet. Get out!"

Nero says in his talking to Pike that he intened to destroy the Federation planet by planet giving Romulus the freedom to become a stronger galactic super-power without the the hinderance of The Federation.

Issue 2. Why does it take only minutes to go from Earth to Vulcan at the beginning of the conflict but much longer for the Enterprise to go from Vulcan to Earth after Vulcan was destroyed? It took so long, in fact, that Kirk had time to be stranded on a planet, travel 14 kilometers to a Starfleet base (in bad weather, no less), and in the meantime, be chased by two creatures and mind meld with Spock Prime.

This movie has in "issue" with time. I believe it took longer than we're led to believe for The Enterprise to get to Vulcan. The Enterprise jumps to Warp and then I believe we get the scene with McCoy knocking out Kirk. Then we go back to the bridge where Chekov gets on the PA. Then we're back to sickbay where McCoy is in his uniform and Kirk wakes up, he fiddles with the computer and then he rushes out of sickbay. Cut to him running down the corridor to find Uhura, he finds her, now cut to her regulating the pressure of the ship's fermentation tanks then all three rush to the bridge. There's some wacky issues with time here as -figuring in the cuts of action- more than four minutes pass between Kirk replaying Chekov's annoucement and him getting to the bridge and the ship actually getting to Vulcan.

Issue 4. When Nero and crew encounter Spock Prime's ship just after the Jellyfish comes through the black hole, Ayel (Nero's first officer) says something to the effect of "should we destroy it?" Nero responds, "Kill him? I want him to watch!"

What is it that Nero wants Spock Prime to watch? It can't be the destruction of Vulcan, because, since Nero has yet to capture the Jellyfish, he does not yet have the Red Matter. Nor does he probably even know of it if we are to accept.

Actualy, it is the destruction of the Vulcan. Nero simply assumed he'd be able to capture Spock and get a hold of the technology to cause black holes. He obviously knows Spock's envolvment and not stopping the nova that took our Romulous.

 

[Kelso]

Issue 1. I think someone else has already covered this... but Nero was determined to eliminate the Federation entirely.


Issue 2. & 3. The Enterprise had to make repairs and could only proceed at low warp. Chekov says later in the film, "...if Mr. Scott can get us to warp four..."

The Narada had to take enough time to get information about Starfleet defenses from Pike before proceeding to Earth.


Issue 4. Whether or not Nero knew at that point that Spock had the ability to create a black hole- I would presume that he did- he did know that he was in a ship that was vastly superior to anything Starfleet had. He wanted Spock to see him get his revenge.

 

[shapeshifter]

I don't know if it counts since I was watching our BD on a non-HD TV but; as usual, I was enjoying watching it too much to think about things to nit-pic at. However, as mentioned, the lens flares were more noticeable than on the big screen.

 

[OneBuckFilms]

Spock and Nero went before the Romulan council, so they were invited to speak.

I understand you're saying this is from the comic. Am I correct that the comic, though not considered cannon, was still intended to be a prequel to the movie?

If that's correct, then how does the comic account for the fact that, in the movie, Nero and crew are just a bunch of miners, while in the comics, they are standing before the Romulun council?

Nero was representing a Miner's union, if I remember correctly, and was there when Spock made his announcement.

Spock and Nero broke with the Romulan council and visited Vulcan to obtain the Red Matter to collapse the hobus nova.

Nero's wife, of course, was still on Romulus.

The Vulcan council refused, and Nero departed to save his Wife and unborn sun.

Spock stole the Red Matter from the council and went to try and stop the Nova, but collapsed the Nova after the fact, and Romulus was destroyed.

Nero then rescued the Romulan senate, who escaped, then killed them, taking an ancient symbol of power (that staff), effectively declaring himself Emporor.

This gave him access to the Romulan/Borg technology the Romulans had been working on secretly, and that was added to his mining vessel, giving birth to the Narada's massive size and haphazard arrangement, as well as those immensely powerful missiles.

He then went on a rampage against Spock, who he believed wanted Romulus to die and decieved him, and the Federation, the Vulcans and their allies.

In short, the Romulan distrust of outsiders, paranoia, rage, grief and madness took over.

He went after Spock, who had just collapsed the Hobus explosion, and they both were pulled in, Nero first, then Spock moments later (arriving 25 years later than Nero).

 

[Trekker4747]

A whole other deminsion that really could've added a nice layer to the movie if included.

 

[Jeri]

Here's what Memory Alpha says about the Teral'n:

Nero's acquiring of the Teral'n is explained in Star Trek: Countdown. In the book, the Teral'n (referred to as the "Debrune Teral'n") was an ancient weapon which served as the greatest symbol of the Romulan Star Empire. In the book, the praetor was in possession of the Teral'n when he and the ruling council of the Romulan Senate were beamed aboard the Narada following the destruction of Romulus. Angered that the Senate refused to believe Romulus was in danger, Nero took the Teral'n for himself and used it to kill the entire Senate. (bold mine)

 

[Traveller]

What I don't understand is why Nero (and the rest of the Narada crew) didn't at least take their own families on board or see to their evacuation somehow. After his experience with the council, Nero should have been aware of the possibility that they wouldn't be able to rescue the planet in time.

If one goes with the Nero comics, Nero did try to get his wife to come aboard, but she didn't want to give birth to their kid in a cargo hold, especially since she thought that they would be able to save Romulus.

He could at least have her shipped off-planet. I mean, Romulan Star Empire, they would have colony worlds.

But then, no drama, no destruction of Vulcan. They should've come up with some other reason for Nero's actions. No, don't ask me which reasons

 

[Jeri]

Clearly, not only did the Council doubt the planet would be destroyed, but Nero's wife doubted as well -- and Nero had faith in Spock. I think that's why he went nuts on him.

We always get the most mileage out of a grudge when our own guilt is at the heart of it.

 

[Traveller]

I know I shouldn't feel sorry for Nero, him being a mass murderer and Destroyer of Vulcan and all, but my heart went out to them. When they showed him being sucked into the black hole at the end, closing his eyes, all I could think was: Armes Schwein.