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Is it okay for people to live together before getting married?

And if someone DID want a large family? Would you condemn them??

And I would add that those who have religious beliefs, and those who may not agree with the TrekBBS majority should be free to speak without getting flamed. Tolerance shouldn't just be extended towards those one happens to like.

For goodness' sake, iguana_tonante just made a simple joke.
Humour. It's a difficult concept.

Way to miss the point, too, because I was actually agreeing with ST-One that the so-called "traditional family" (mum, dad, 2.5 kids) is less than one century old, not bashing extended families, as they are much more "traditional". But I guess people don't need to read the actual post if they are just looking for something to jump at.
 
I don't know anyone that has said they were pressured into getting married.

I know plenty of people that have been pressured into getting married. Hooray for anecdotal evidence!

Please tell me then how someone gets pressured into getting married.
Oh....my....GAWD :wtf: Are you really that THICK?

I've seen it happen many times. Mother nags daughter about still being single at age 25; aunts and uncles nag niece/nephew about why that person is still dating the same person and should just "settle down"; mom and dad start "dropping hints" to son/daughter about how, "There comes a time when people need to become a responsible member of society, blah blah blah"; and the infamous, "I WANT GRANDCHILDREN".
 
I don't know anyone that has said they were pressured into getting married.

I know plenty of people that have been pressured into getting married. Hooray for anecdotal evidence!

My parents, along with many others in my family over the years were pressured into getting married, usually because someone got pregnant and once that happened, you either get married or face getting cut from the family, since back then, you wern't supposed to have sex before marriage and if you did and had a kid no less, and wern't married, then there was a fear of the community finger pointing at you and your family as being bad.

My parents were forced into their marriage which eventually lead to their divorce once all of us moved out.... their relationship was mostly fighting and arguing with one another, stresses, etc.... there were good times, but for the most part they were miserable.

And families pressuring others to get married....... that's another one of those wonderful things about our history that ties into the whole 1950's style of life that some like to defend.

One thing I noticed over the years growing up, that when my sister had her triplets, I noticed my family didn't pressure her to suddenly get married or else..... probably because they finally clued in that that doesn't automatically mean the children will be getting a happy/better life...... that and seeing many in our family go through divorces over the years from such actions..... I think they figured out that it doesn't work.
 
Ok but it is 2009 not 1950 where you either had to marry the girl if she was pregnant or you risked lost of money and support or worse. This is 2009. You are an adult. Nagging by parents, family, and friends is not pressure. If you don't want to marry then tell them to shut up and respect your wishes. If they don't then just cut them off. End of story. If you are an adult then act like an adult.

I don't see how there is anymore pressure to get married, than being told to be a lawyer, doctor, or just get a job making a lot of money, but once you are an adult who cares what your family thinks. It doesn't seem most of you had a problem telling them you don't practice your religion anymore, but no one has said how that went down.
 
1. born and raised in Ohio
2. Not at all
3. See no problem with it.. Hell I did it.

Heres the thing.. Who in their right mind would buy a car without driving it first?
Who in their right mind would buy a house with out walking through it first?

So why in the hell would you NOT live together before marriage?
 
Ok but it is 2009 not 1950 where you either had to marry the girl if she was pregnant or you risked lost of money and support or worse. This is 2009. You are an adult.

My parents were adults too..... and for accuracy sakes, it was the 1970's..... but the mentality towards children and marriage remained the same until somewhere around the 90's.

Nagging by parents, family, and friends is not pressure.

Sounds like pressure to me..... maybe not by gun to the temple, but it's still pressure.... similar to peer pressure.

If you don't want to marry then tell them to shut up and respect your wishes. If they don't then just cut them off. End of story. If you are an adult then act like an adult.

Typically it's not as simple as that. Try cutting any and all communication from your family and see how easy it is to not know what's going on with your brothers, sisters, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, etc...... esspecially when someone passes away and you don't hear anything about it.

It is not as simple as you make it out to be.

The whole above, either being pressured into marriage by others, or you cutting them all off from your life because you don't like their pressure are neither Adult actions.... but childish, short minded knee jerk reactions that could have been resolved a lot better.

I don't see how there is anymore pressure to get married, than being told to be a lawyer, doctor, or just get a job making a lot of money, but once you are an adult who cares what your family thinks. It doesn't seem most of you had a problem telling them you don't practice your religion anymore, but no one has said how that went down.

Went perfectly fine.

Yes, as an adult you can make all the decisions you want, but last I checked a lot of people still hold respect for their parents and family to not put their wishes into account..... afterall they did help raise you to be the person you are now. This allows room for pressure.... either a lot of pressure or very little pressure.

When my wife and I decided to get married, it was a decision we made ourselves.... but during the whole process of trying to figure out the wedding, we sure got more then enough "Pressure" from all angles of our families to accomidate their wishes, what they wanted to have done, what they thought would be a great wedding, them buying and ordering things without even asking us if we wanted them in the wedding etc.

There is and always will be pressure when it comes to family, in one way or another.

In relation to the topic however, I didn't get much pressure from my family when it came to me moving in with anybody.... room mate or girlfriend.
 
I grew up on a farm from 0-2, in Eugene, Oregon (a hippie-influenced city) from 2-13, and on a naval base north of Chicago from 14-19.

How does education work if you lived on navel base? Were you "home-schooled" or something like that?

Some bases have a school while at others the children just attend the school in the community where they live.

Ok but it is 2009 not 1950 where you either had to marry the girl if she was pregnant or you risked lost of money and support or worse. This is 2009. You are an adult.

My parents were adults too..... and for accuracy sakes, it was the 1970's..... but the mentality towards children and marriage remained the same until somewhere around the 90's.

Nagging by parents, family, and friends is not pressure.
Sounds like pressure to me..... maybe not by gun to the temple, but it's still pressure.... similar to peer pressure.

It's called "Powdered Butt Syndrome". They powdered your butt when you were in diapers; therefore, you (as a "child") owe it to them to show the proper respect to your elders and heed their "advice". Most people won't cut off their family because of the "blood is thicker than water" bullshit.
 
Heres the thing.. Who in their right mind would buy a car without driving it first?
Who in their right mind would buy a house with out walking through it first?

So why in the hell would you NOT live together before marriage?
O teh noes! You just metaphorically equated people to mere objects, finished products, soulless merchandise! I'm just shaken and appalled by your behaviour and you should bow your head in shame for such a disturbing thought.

:p
 
Heres the thing.. Who in their right mind would buy a car without driving it first?
Who in their right mind would buy a house with out walking through it first?

So why in the hell would you NOT live together before marriage?
O teh noes! You just metaphorically equated people to mere objects, finished products, soulless merchandise! I'm just shaken and appalled by your behaviour and you should bow your head in shame for such a disturbing thought.

:p

Everything in this world that is in physical form is an object..... what those objects mean to us is what counts.
 
Heres the thing.. Who in their right mind would buy a car without driving it first?
Who in their right mind would buy a house with out walking through it first?

So why in the hell would you NOT live together before marriage?
O teh noes! You just metaphorically equated people to mere objects, finished products, soulless merchandise! I'm just shaken and appalled by your behaviour and you should bow your head in shame for such a disturbing thought.

:p

Even though he kept it gender neutral, we should all just assume he was objectifying women specifically. What a sexist pig.

:)
 
It's called "Powdered Butt Syndrome". They powdered your butt when you were in diapers; therefore, you (as a "child") owe it to them to show the proper respect to your elders and heed their "advice". Most people won't cut off their family because of the "blood is thicker than water" bullshit.

I find it hard to believe that this group would care. I don't know if your family and parents share your same beliefs on everything you do, but I know I have seen post after post that says that they don't and you still manage. I mean is any of your families today actually going to cut you off if you don't get married?

And yes you guys are treating humans like a car and a house.
 
It's called "Powdered Butt Syndrome". They powdered your butt when you were in diapers; therefore, you (as a "child") owe it to them to show the proper respect to your elders and heed their "advice". Most people won't cut off their family because of the "blood is thicker than water" bullshit.

I find it hard to believe that this group would care. I don't know if your family and parents share your same beliefs on everything you do, but I know I have seen post after post that says that they don't and you still manage. I mean is any of your families today actually going to cut you off if you don't get married?

It's a constant struggle for me to balance the love I feel for my family with my own beliefs and wishes. There was never any question of "if" I would get married, from my family's perspective.
 
It's called "Powdered Butt Syndrome". They powdered your butt when you were in diapers; therefore, you (as a "child") owe it to them to show the proper respect to your elders and heed their "advice". Most people won't cut off their family because of the "blood is thicker than water" bullshit.

I find it hard to believe that this group would care. I don't know if your family and parents share your same beliefs on everything you do, but I know I have seen post after post that says that they don't and you still manage. I mean is any of your families today actually going to cut you off if you don't get married?

And yes you guys are treating humans like a car and a house.
Who said it applies to anyone here? It occurs in society as a whole, which you fail to understand.

I think it laughable that you would be willing to make a "life long commitment" to someone without even taking the appropriate measures to see if such a joining is feasible, yet, as has been pointed out, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it nor a house without walking through and inspecting it.

Dating someone and living together are apples and oranges.
 
I'm fortunate that my parents don't really care. I've told them both that I do not expect to ever get married and they seem fine with it.
 
It's called "Powdered Butt Syndrome". They powdered your butt when you were in diapers; therefore, you (as a "child") owe it to them to show the proper respect to your elders and heed their "advice". Most people won't cut off their family because of the "blood is thicker than water" bullshit.

I find it hard to believe that this group would care. I don't know if your family and parents share your same beliefs on everything you do, but I know I have seen post after post that says that they don't and you still manage. I mean is any of your families today actually going to cut you off if you don't get married?

And yes you guys are treating humans like a car and a house.

Take it up with Schiller then:

Drum prüfe, wer sich ewig bindet,
Ob sich das Herz zum Herzen findet.
Der Wahn ist kurz, die Reu' ist lang.

So test therefore, who join forever,
If heart to heart be found together.
Delusion is short, remorse is long.
 
I think it laughable that you would be willing to make a "life long commitment" to someone without even taking the appropriate measures to see if such a joining is feasible, yet, as has been pointed out, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it nor a house without walking through and inspecting it.

Dating someone and living together are apples and oranges.

Well hold on, some people feel that they can get to know the person quite well through dating. And that may be their experience. A lot of it probably has to do with the personalities and mindsets of the people involved. I mean, my parents had an arranged marriage and they are quite happy decades later. Marriage and dating are different things to different people. People need to figure out their own expectations and act accordingly.
 
I find it hard to believe that this group would care. I don't know if your family and parents share your same beliefs on everything you do, but I know I have seen post after post that says that they don't and you still manage. I mean is any of your families today actually going to cut you off if you don't get married?

Just remember that all of this discussion stems off of the argument of going back to traditional values and traditional families which some here were debating.

Many in here don't want to go back to that way of life due to what their parents went through because of many of those "Traditional" values. Many of those involved forcing them to get married or otherwise attempting to control their lives.

Some families still will cut their children off, depending on where they live in the world, their culture, beliefs, etc.

The only real difference is one or two generations.... going back to this "traditional" approach some were talking about, would mean stepping back a couple of generations and then many of these issues will arise again.

It's not that they are currently happening, it's the chance that they could become common place once again, which I oppose.

And yes you guys are treating humans like a car and a house.

As well we should.

I'll be the first to say that it's the wisest way to approach a long term relationship.

Deciding to spend the rest of your life with someone through marriage and to have kids with that someone is a much bigger and more important decision then just picking a car or house. Many of those things won't last all your life..... your husband/wife is supposed to though...... thus one would think you'd want to be much more picky, much more cautious and try and make sure you are making a sound decision on as much information as you can get.

A life-partner, husband, wife, children in their general terms are indeed objects..... objects of your potiential future life. Until you know who they are, meet them face to face, etc. there is nothing personal involved in the concept of your approach, thus it doesn't matter what you think of them.

I would figure being more picky and judgemental of the people you wish to spend the rest of your life with would be more important then picking the color of your car or how many bathrooms your house has.

I have noticed some in here talk about sleeping with someone or living with them before marriage as being shallow, a bad thing, making humans into objects they can easily return...... yet what is the difference in doing either of the above compared to just dating someone before marrying them?

Afterall, dating/going out with someone is just the exact same thing..... all you're doing is trying the person out, testing them..... learning who they are, judging whether or not you see a future with this person.

Why is there suddenly this imaginary line between dating someone and eventually moving in with that person before marriage that it's somehow totally different and objectifies humans more then the other?

Just because you move in with someone doesn't automatically mean you're having sex with them..... and even if you were, so what? Everybody determines what is important to them in a relationship, esspecially when it comes to marriage.... everybody determines how they go about finding out if this is the right relationship for them.

Some people can make a decision on limited information which they'll figure out after getting married..... others, through their own experience or through their own parents/family member's experiences, would prefer all the information they can get before deciding.

No matter if you just date the person and yet keep your distance, or if you start having sex with them, or you decide to move in with them.... all of it is the exact same thing as test driving a car and returning it if you don't like what you see.

That is, unless you married the very first person you dated. :vulcan: (right after the very first date mind you)
 
Dating someone and living together are apples and oranges.

Living with someone and marrying someone are apples and oranges too, by that reasoning. You act like when you marry this person you have no idea about who they are. If that is the case why would you want to live with them? IMHO the stuff most of you are complaining about is nitpicking at best. If you are not spending anytime or effort getting to know the person, then you shouldn't be living with them and you sure shouldn't be getting married to them.

So are we back to talking about living together as a prerequisite to getting married or just living together forever. Because you just said that you dating and living together are the same thing and you can get just as much information from dating if you like as living together.
 
I think it laughable that you would be willing to make a "life long commitment" to someone without even taking the appropriate measures to see if such a joining is feasible, yet, as has been pointed out, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving it nor a house without walking through and inspecting it.

Dating someone and living together are apples and oranges.

Well hold on, some people feel that they can get to know the person quite well through dating. And that may be their experience. A lot of it probably has to do with the personalities and mindsets of the people involved. I mean, my parents had an arranged marriage and they are quite happy decades later. Marriage and dating are different things to different people. People need to figure out their own expectations and act accordingly.
Very true; however, your parents come from a different culture. I made a bad enough choice when I got married that I shudder to think what my parents would have selected for me were our society to do the same.

Dating someone and living together are apples and oranges.

Living with someone and marrying someone are apples and oranges too, by that reasoning. You act like when you marry this person you have no idea about who they are. If that is the case why would you want to live with them? IMHO the stuff most of you are complaining about is nitpicking at best. If you are not spending anytime or effort getting to know the person, then you shouldn't be living with them and you sure shouldn't be getting married to them.

But adults are free to do as they will.


Let's try this again. Being married and living together are NOT DIFFERENT.
You both:


  1. Typically share the same bed
  2. See each other at the beginning and end of the day
  3. Share the same bills (utilities, food, mortgage/rent)
  4. Have to deal with the other's friends and relatives more intimately than if you live apart
  5. Live under the same roof
The ONLY DIFFERENCE is a piece of paper that states: "Certificate of Marriage" :rolleyes::rolleyes:

The reason for living together is to see if both people and their lifestyles are compatible. If people haven't lived together and get married only to find out they just can't live together, severing the relationship gets very ugly and sticky; whereas if you're not married, the break isn't as bad.
 
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