State-run health care

[TheLonelySquire]

I notice neither one of the two good Christians TLS and Ryan here have anything to say about the 12-year-old who's reached his life-time-limit of what the private health insurance wants to pay out already. I guess you want him to beg for getting a prosthesis, hm?

Again, did not Ryan JUST say things need to be changed and reform needs to be implemented? R-E-F-O-R-M.

And as far as being a "good Christian" I'll leave that up to the Lord. To be honest, your comment appears a tad agressive. Maybe you ought to consider where you stand with him yourself.

 

[RyanKCR]

Not at all. What I'm saying are two very simple things:
- Everybody should have insurance
- When someone has insurance, the insurance should pay for the medical care someone needs

I don't know what's so difficult to understand about that.

What you are saying, is that the insurance company is well within their rights to let this boy suffer without a prosthesis, but he should beg people like me for donating money to him.

I did not say that. That is you putting motivation on me because I do not like your solution. However you see a need but you refuse to personally do anything about it. That tells me that you really don't care about the such people. They are just a tool for you to get what you want.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Maybe you ought to consider where you stand with him yourself.

I don't want anything to do with a god who likes people like you and Ryan, who let sick children suffer to advance their political agenda.

I did not say that. That is you putting motivation on me because I do not like your solution. However you see a need but you refuse to personally do anything about it. That tells me that you really don't care about the such people. They are just a tool for you to get what you want.

Of course you said that, because that's the inevitable result of not having the insurance paying for the boy's prosthesis. Either he begs for money or he doesn't get the prosthesis.

And I do care, that's why I'm talking about this topic here in TrekBBS with you guys.

 

[RyanKCR]

Maybe you ought to consider where you stand with him yourself.

I don't want anything to do with a god who likes people like you and Ryan, who let sick children suffer to advance their political agenda.

Hmmm lets see, you saw a need but won't do a thing about it so that you can use it to further your cause of having government come in and take over and we're the one's letting children suffer for a political agenda? When I said before that we and our churches' do help people like this like I suggested you do it you complain that it's just luck. Well if you were to do your part and encourage others to do it then you would NOT need government to come it but that is NOT what you want. So you will let people suffer.

I did not say that. That is you putting motivation on me because I do not like your solution. However you see a need but you refuse to personally do anything about it. That tells me that you really don't care about the such people. They are just a tool for you to get what you want.

Of course you said that, because that's the inevitable result of not having the insurance paying for the boy's prosthesis. Either he begs for money or he doesn't get the prosthesis.

And I do care, that's why I'm talking about this topic here in TrekBBS with you guys.

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can. Why don't you? Oh yeah you want him to suffer so you can get your political agenda passed.

 

[Guartho]

Only fools believe free health care will be cheaper.

Why would you expect a tax supported, non-profit system answerable to voters to be more expensive than the existing profit-driven system answerable only to shareholders?

 

[Roger Wilco]

When I said before that we and our churches' do help people like this like I suggested you do it you complain that it's just luck. Well if you were to do your part and encourage others to do it then you would NOT need government to come it but that is NOT what you want. So you will let people suffer.

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can. Why don't you? Oh yeah you want him to suffer so you can get your political agenda passed.

As I said: you want people to beg for help, I want to give them a right to medical care.

You want beggars, I want people.

 

[RyanKCR]

When I said before that we and our churches' do help people like this like I suggested you do it you complain that it's just luck. Well if you were to do your part and encourage others to do it then you would NOT need government to come it but that is NOT what you want. So you will let people suffer.

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can. Why don't you? Oh yeah you want him to suffer so you can get your political agenda passed.

As I said: you want people to beg for help, I want to give them a right to medical care.

You want beggars, I want people.

No, you would rather people suffer then see them get help outside of your approved way of helping people.

This whole thing is a game with the left. Punish or berate people who do well and help others while parading those who need help as a way of berating others while not doing any of the work themselves.

 

[Squiggy]

No, you would rather people suffer then see them get help outside of your approved way of helping people.

Sounds like you fit this description too.

 

[RyanKCR]

No, you would rather people suffer then see them get help outside of your approved way of helping people.

Sounds like you fit this description too.

I've helped people, what have you personally done? Did you send money to this boy that was just mentioned?

 

[Roger Wilco]

No, you would rather people suffer then see them get help outside of your approved way of helping people.

This whole thing is a game with the left. Punish or berate people who do well and help others while parading those who need help as a way of berating others while not doing any of the work themselves.

I am absolutely fine with any help people like this kid get, and if you donate to such causes, I salute you, good for you. I strongly resent your suggestion I want to see this kid suffer.

But that's not an effective or lasting concept. Give them insurance and they fine all the time without having to ask for it.

Why do you want people to beg for help? Why not just write a law that gives them the help they need preemptively?

The point of the matter is, by not instituting UHC people suffer. People like this ḱid, and millions of other children and adults. By not supporting UHC you make them suffer.
I don't have a political agenda here. Where I am from, this boy would get his prothesis without a problem, without his parents bankrupting themselves and without having to beg for it. That's the way it should be. That's all my agenda is.

 

[Squiggy]

No, you would rather people suffer then see them get help outside of your approved way of helping people.

Sounds like you fit this description too.

I've helped people, what have you personally done? Did you send money to this boy that was just mentioned?

I will soon through taxes.

 

[Crash]

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can.

We tried it your way once. Historians call that period in our history the Gilded Age. It was filled with anarchists throwing bombs, presidential assassinations, REAL socialists and communists, starving families, squalid conditions, street violence, and the military gunning down striking workers.

Basically, a fucked up shithole of a country. And charity, which is exactly what was advocated at the time, didn't even come close to stemming the tide of poverty, disease, starvation, anger, and all the social ills that come with the reality of living under such conditions.

Now, I suggest you answer the fucking question.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

Maybe you ought to consider where you stand with him yourself.

I don't want anything to do with a god who likes people like you and Ryan, who let sick children suffer to advance their political agenda.

I did not say that. That is you putting motivation on me because I do not like your solution. However you see a need but you refuse to personally do anything about it. That tells me that you really don't care about the such people. They are just a tool for you to get what you want.

Of course you said that, because that's the inevitable result of not having the insurance paying for the boy's prosthesis. Either he begs for money or he doesn't get the prosthesis.

And I do care, that's why I'm talking about this topic here in TrekBBS with you guys.

The fact that you can't differentiate between real reform (which would help this child) and a power grab designed to limit our freedoms is very telling. But to each his own.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

When I said before that we and our churches' do help people like this like I suggested you do it you complain that it's just luck. Well if you were to do your part and encourage others to do it then you would NOT need government to come it but that is NOT what you want. So you will let people suffer.

Insurance is not the only thing that can help him. People can. Why don't you? Oh yeah you want him to suffer so you can get your political agenda passed.

As I said: you want people to beg for help, I want to give them a right to medical care.

You want beggars, I want people.

I'll grant you one thing. Kids and disabled people should never have to worry about health care.

Able-bodied people should have a right to AFFORDABLE ACCESS to health care. It should not be free however. Want something? Able to work? Work for it.

 

[Roger Wilco]

The fact that you can't differentiate between real reform (which would help this child) and a power grab designed to limit our freedoms is very telling. But to each his own.

It is true that the current proposals in the US Congress don't go nearly far enough, so in a way I guess it's not "real" reform. But it's better than nothing. And it's hell of a lot better and more "real" than anything I've heard from American conservatives. Take RyanKCR who thinks panhandling is a viable alternative to insurance.

Able-bodied people should have a right to AFFORDABLE ACCESS to health care. It should not be free however. Want something? Able to work? Work for it.

Noone's saying health insurance should be free.

 

[thestrangequark]

Thanks for posting this TSQ. I actually came in here just to see the pwnage that you had reportedly dispensed. (It's been reported on in other fora) I've been on the fence about health care reform for pretty the entire time it's been a public issue this time around.

On the one hand I believe that the federal government is pretty much not good at anything it tries to do. On the other hand I'm a small business owner with no insurance because I'd rather insure my daughter and I'd rather eat. (Thankfully I've worked it out to change that and I just have to stay healthy until December when my new policy starts.)

I am now firmly in the public option camp. Before I believed that health care reform should start and probably end with malpractice reform. I still believe that's an important component, but I no longer believe it to be the most important.

For demographics sake I'll say that I've never watched Olberman before and, though I still consider myself conservative, I no longer consider myself a Republican. I'm a 27-year-old married father of one and, though it sure doesn't seem like it, I'm sure we're classified as middle class.

I got sick with persistent flu-like symptoms last month at about the same time that several of my wife's students were being diagnosed with N1H1. I still don't think I had it because it was never really awful, but it was around a lot longer than any other bad cold or flu I've had. Every day I was terrified that it might get worse and I might be hospitalized. I was never afraid of unbearable pain or of death. I didn't think either was likely. I was afraid that the financial burden would destroy my family.

This post made my day. A little bit because the thought of you coming here to check out pwnage of which you heard is awesome, but mostly because your account of changing your mind is really moving, and heartening. This doesn't have to be an issue mired in partisanship, scare tactics, and hate. Because ultimately this is a human issue -- and anyone with a measure of humanity and an open mind, once educated on the reality of the health care tragedy as it stands and on what a public option would really entail, would realize that it would be good for the people and good for the country.

Who exactly is hated?

Seriously? You don't see the hatred and fear-mongering? Bear in mind that I didn't, and won't accuse one party (or political leaning); both sides are guilty.

And please explain without the silly internet speak.

Chill. This is the internet after all. Where else can one use the term pwnd? And you still never addressed the data. Sorry, but America needs, wants, and will get a public option -- whatever form it takes at its inception is unknown, will likely be weak, and will be far from ideal, but it will be a start.

 

[TheLonelySquire]

The fact that you can't differentiate between real reform (which would help this child) and a power grab designed to limit our freedoms is very telling. But to each his own.

It is true that the current proposals in the US Congress don't go nearly far enough, so in a way I guess it's not "real" reform. But it's better than nothing. And it's hell of a lot better and more "real" than anything I've heard from American conservatives. Take RyanKCR who thinks panhandling is a viable alternative to insurance.

Able-bodied people should have a right to AFFORDABLE ACCESS to health care. It should not be free however. Want something? Able to work? Work for it.

Noone's saying health insurance should be free.

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

 

[Roger Wilco]

Hm. Ok, that's a grey zone, I'll admit.

 

[Guartho]

It WOULD be free to those able-bodied people who, based on their income, cannot afford it. That is not right.

Only if their income is low enough that they have no tax burden. We're not talking about a lot of people here.

 

[Miss Chicken]

Should hard-working people on low incomes be denied basic health insurance coverage just because they are poor?