Waters of Mars Comment & Grading SPOILERS

[Cutter John]

So has anyone elses faith in the Doctor taken a serious blow from that final scene? No matter what happens in the final two, I think theres always going to be that memory that theres still this dark personality hiding just under the surface. Ready to pop out and do who knows what if hes left on his own for too long.

Its going to take one hell of a conversion to earn that trust back.

Can almost hear Moffett sitting at home watching while putting the finishing touchs on his series 5 opener. "Russell you bastard. What're you doing to me here?"

 

[ITL]

^ Hehehe!

Maybe the regeneration will be a result of The Doctor overcoming Teh Darknesses in a Great Big Blaze Of Redemption And Cleansing Type Stuff.

....yet there's something hanging on in his psyche....and one day....

Or something.

 

[Starkers]

^ Hehehe!

Maybe the regeneration will be a result of The Doctor overcoming Teh Darknesses in a Great Big Blaze Of Redemption And Cleansing Type Stuff.

....yet there's something hanging on in his psyche....and one day....

Or something.

well interestingly after Voyage of the Damned I postulated that the Doctor would become increasingly arrogant to the point where he'd, in effect, go bad, and the only way to save his soul would be to regenerate. In the same way that 9 could only get past the majority of his survivor guilt by regenerating.

Although regenerating never seems to redeem the Master...

 

[Cutter John]

Does make you wonder if thats how the Master started out.

 

[Starkers]

Yeah, although The Sound of Drums and Last of the Time Lords kinda suggests the Master went loopy at a very young age after staring at the Time Vortex.

If regeneration can heal the body though, reorder it into another form, you do have to wonder why it also could not heal the mind? Have some incarnations of the Master been less evil than others? In the same way that often the Doctor has varied? Take 5 6 and 7: From quite noble, to dark and violent to down right manipulative.

 

[Mr Awe]

Good. If we had a proper 5-point scale, it would've been Above average, but not quite fantastic.

All in all, an enjoyable look at the the Doctor's character and an interesting look at a potential Mars colony. The colony was well portrayed and you truly felt stranded out there with them. So, lots of pluses there.

Downsides:

Overall, the characters were not really memorable.

We had to be told how great the colony leader Adelaide was rather than shown. She seemed just like many other leader figures in DW but yet she was supposedly somehow special? I don't buy that she personally (even if through her death) would've been responsible for humans colonizing space. We've got that drive as a species. If she had lived and hadn't become such a defining figure, someone else would have. So, the whole thing about her having to die didn't work for me. Didn't make sense.

I also didn't buy into the Doctor's character becoming so maniacal at the end. RTD was clearly going for an emotional rollercoaster at the end. Euphoria at surving followed by devastation, and then desparation. Fell flat. The Doctor, after a thousand or so years of living, isn't suddenly going to go mad like that.

The progression is logical until the end. The Doctor arrives, initially wants to leave upon learning where/when he was, being drawn in, and then refusing to follow the rules in order to save them. But, he wouldn't be so wanton, so callous about it after having saved them.

So, in summary, great ride, interesting setting but didn't buy the premise of how important Adelaide was nor the Doctor suddenly going mad and power hungry. Enjoyable but with a few faults that kept it from being great.

Mr Awe

 

[Bacl]

well interestingly after Voyage of the Damned I postulated that the Doctor would become increasingly arrogant to the point where he'd, in effect, go bad, and the only way to save his soul would be to regenerate. In the same way that 9 could only get past the majority of his survivor guilt by regenerating.

I really don't like that 10's swan-song appears to be heading in the direction of, "This Doctor is really an arrogant asshole, and needs to die as a result of it."

 

[Mr Awe]

The has the selfishness of personal glory, Timelord Victorious. And if thats a new title The Doctor will start calling himself until he realises he has done wrong and gone too far, then im all for it.

We see The Doctor become something he has never wanted to become. He has changed, and as RTD says in the confidential, we see a changed Doctor when the exits the TArdis. Hes a changed man, but for the worse.

And, I just don't buy this change. This was not the Doctor, calling himself a winner and Timelord Victorious. I don't buy that he would fall so far so fast. Not after being alive for a thousand years or so.

The Doctor would find a way to save them without breaking the rules. Like simply saving them and taking them to live elsewhere to avoid changing history. A very simple solution. No need for the theatrics!

Mr Awe

 

[Shazam!]

I really don't like that 10's swan-song appears to be heading in the direction of, "This Doctor is really an arrogant asshole, and needs to die as a result of it."

I'd rather that than "this Doctor is miles better than all the others and requires episode after episode of build up to his regeneration when all everyone else got was 10 minutes at the end/start of an episode"

 

[Samurai8472]

^ Hehehe!

Maybe the regeneration will be a result of The Doctor overcoming Teh Darknesses in a Great Big Blaze Of Redemption And Cleansing Type Stuff.

....yet there's something hanging on in his psyche....and one day....

Or something.

*cue ominous voice*

The Valeyard........The Valeyard......The Valeyard

 

[Spiderpope]

And, I just don't buy this change. This was not the Doctor, calling himself a winner and Timelord Victorious. I don't buy that he would fall so far so fast. Not after being alive for a thousand years or so.

I would argue that his fall hasnt been fast at all. This has been building up since the end of Tens first series. Time and time again we've been shown that The Doctor can save anyone apart from the people he actually cares about. Eventually that will break any man, even a Timelord. Adelaide and Bowie Base One was just the final straw in a bundle that had been building up since Torchwood decided to dick around with dimensional barriers.

I also, however, dont believe that The Doctor is now mad and power hungry. His manner at the end of the episode was of a man who has lashed out in rage, then regained his senses to discover what a terrible thing he's done, and genuinely regrets it. He's terrified of how far he went and is running from it. The Doctor i saw at the very end wasnt the 'Timelord Victorious', more like the Timelord Petrified.

 

[Sci-fi fan]

wasn't that a very disturbing episode if you happened to be eating at that point.

I was like with a big roasted chicken read to be devoured by my hungry self when bang "droooooolled monster" wtf i was like wtf this is disgusting but whatever

in the end the episode was better than i thought. and to be honest

to be honest..


i prefer tenant leaving. he was good, but it took too long.

 

[Lonemagpie]

Does make you wonder if thats how the Master started out.

RTD said in Confidential after the episode that he imagines "this is how the master became the Master- he took on this power of the Time Lords to himself..."

Somebody should write a book about that.

Oh, wait...

 

[Mr Awe]

He told her the story about her and the Dalek, something only she and her daughter were supposed to know.

No, she told the story herself. The Doctor added the explanation of why the Dalek let her be.

Mr Awe

 

[Chaos Descending]

Somebody should write a book about that.

Oh, wait...

I very much enjoyed The Dark Path, by the way.

 

[Mr Awe]

Ungrateful, or just resentful for him forcing something on her that wasn't meant to be.

Ungrateful.

She could see what he was becoming...

The kind of person that goes around saving people?

I agree, it just wasn't believable on several levels.

1) That she would kill herself based on what he said. Particularly when he was looking so crazed!

2) And, even if she totally bought into what the Dr said, that she would conclude that killing herself was the only way to inspire her grandaughter.

Shoot, couldn't she inspire the granddaughter the old-fashioned way, by acting inspirational?! There are other ways to inspire other than blowing yourself up for unknown reasons (in the original timeline the Dr said no one knew why). And, give the granddaughter some credit, her own traits probably played a large role too.

And, even if the granddaughter didn't get to fly the first FTL ship, big deal. Someone else would! The course of humanity would be the same in the grand scheme of things. We'd just see a similar subtle shift in the wikipedia entries. "The first FTL ship was flown by X."

Mr Awe

 

[Tom]

He told her the story about her and the Dalek, something only she and her daughter were supposed to know.

No, she told the story herself. The Doctor added the explanation of why the Dalek let her be.

Mr Awe

Which is full of shit becuse the Daleks moved Earth, came back from a locked time war and planned to wipe creation. The Daleks were going to kill everyone, the planet, the universe but not Adelie because she commanded the first martian base! ..please!! sloppy writing RTD

 

[Mr Awe]

^^^ I agree.

 

[EnsignYoshi]

Which is full of shit becuse the Daleks moved Earth, came back from a locked time war and planned to wipe creation. The Daleks were going to kill everyone, the planet, the universe but not Adelie because she commanded the first martian base! ..please!! sloppy writing RTD

Not necessarily... the effects of Adelaide's death may have affected Dalek History (humans going into space, the effects of that, interactions with the daleks, human interactions with the doctor). Maybe we are thinking of time in a too linear fashion and we gotta start thinking timey wimey wibbly wobbly more... Adelaide needed to live not to affect Dalek progress up to the point they wanted to move the earth and destroy the multiverse.

 

[Sci]

He told her the story about her and the Dalek, something only she and her daughter were supposed to know.

No, she told the story herself. The Doctor added the explanation of why the Dalek let her be.

Mr Awe

Which is full of shit becuse the Daleks moved Earth, came back from a locked time war and planned to wipe creation. The Daleks were going to kill everyone, the planet, the universe but not Adelie because she commanded the first martian base! ..please!! sloppy writing RTD

What makes you think that the Dalek consciously chose to spare her because of her future? The Dalek may have had a totally different reason to spare her life that just happened because Time required it.