Waters of Mars Comment & Grading SPOILERS

[Guy Gardener]

Gotta wonder about that timevision he described in the Fires of Pompei or that feeling planets revolve he talked about in Rose... Is it a mental discipline that is learnt? Is it a technolocally forced mutation on the meat of his body brought about on the entire species, at some point after contraception or at some point during their training to become a timelord as opposed to a regular Galifreyan pleb? or is it just a standard bog natural feature common to the lot of them?

I suppose on Gallifrey that these time powers don't work too well since the planet is so incredibly regulated against fiddling and attacks, like the ability to recognize colours if you living in a house painted completely black and white, you don't really get to flex your corneas until you go outside nito the wild and uncontrolable, well, outside.

How little of this was Cassandra or the creature formt he midnight planet of diamond, or even Meglos able to access to what butterfingered degree of control?

PIss and spit, Timelord Victoriuos for two seconds? Why not just say Valeyard? Wuss.

 

[Skywalker]

I think I'm in love with the girl who played Mia.

Oh, and I quite enjoyed the special, as well. I really liked the Doctor's turn there towards the end, though I agree that it might have been better if Brooke had waited until after the Doctor left to kill herself. Still surprisingly dark for what's supposedly a family show either way, though.

Bring on "The End of Time"!

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

It seems to me that the creative process behind WoM is inverted.

It's not inverted. Lots of stories are written that way. Most tragedies, in fact, are written exactly like that, with the ending conditioning everything that comes before. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

 

[ITL]

^ OK, point taken. I guess my point is that because of the foregone conclusion (Dark Doctor) the story suffered. I found the plot to be rather weak, and that's why I think it was weak.

 

[EJA]

To be a bit more specific on my earlier post, I think Adelaide says that the year 2040 was one of extremely bad storms ravaging Earth. I know it's before the 2050 date mentioned in The Moonbase for when the Gravitron came into operation, but the impression I got from Waters of Mars was that environmental conditions on Earth were still suffering when Bowie Base One was established around 2058. The only way I can think of to reconcile both stories is to change the date of The Moonbase; have it occur in 2080 rather than the original date of 2070. That way the Gravitron could still have been established twenty years prior to that story, in 2060, after the events of Waters of Mars.

There are still some problems. I don't quite understand the reasoning behind the first humans landing on Mars in the mid-21st century, whereas The Ambassadors of Death quite firmly established that the first manned expedition took place around the 1970s.

I don't quite know what to do about The Seeds of Doom. That story was set at some point in the 21st century when conventional space travel had been replaced by the T-Mat teleport system, and the Ice Warriors still inhabited Mars.

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

^^
Quite simply, these stories are not meant to be reconciled in a comprehensive, logical and all-encompassing continuity.

 

[Deckerd]

It would be better to view these as individual stories rather than trying to reconcile them with everything that has been done before. Fundie Trekkies tie themselves in knots for this very reason, to the point that I don't think they're capable of enjoying the show any more.

 

[StCoop]

Anyone got a link to that essay by Paul Cornell which explains why the idea of trying to apply the idea of Canon to Doctor Who is pointless?

 

[The Mirrorball Man]

Anyone got a link to that essay by Paul Cornell which explains why the idea of trying to apply the idea of Canon to Doctor Who is pointless?

It is here. And really, there's nothing more to be said.

 

[jbny67]

There are still some problems. I don't quite understand the reasoning behind the first humans landing on Mars in the mid-21st century, whereas The Ambassadors of Death quite firmly established that the first manned expedition took place around the 1970s.

I thought they said that the Bowie Base crew were the first to colonize Mars, not simply lead an expedition.

 

[O'Dib]

I don't understand the need to reconcile everything that's happened in old Who with the new show. It's time travel, things are constantly in flux!

EDIT: Oh, OK, it's been said.

 

[Starkers]

To be honest its not even reconciling the old show and the new show, but the old show and the old show and the new show and the new show

 

[selina]

Just watched it and gave it an "excellent". The zombie-like creatures were not scary at all, but I liked the dark "the laws will obey me"-Doctor.

 

[Pindar]

Not bad, those actors must have really suffered in that make up.

 

[wamdue]

ok ive spotted a mistake,

if you look at the Obituary for Adelaide Brooke (58:58 on the iPlayer) it said that her parents were missing presumed dead after the Dalek invasion in 2008.

when in fact Stolen Earth / Journeys End, takes place in 2009.

This of course is not the first time the gap year has lead to a dating mistake in the Whoverse, and Doctor Who: Time Travellers Almanac does give the year of Stolen Earth / Journeys End as 2009

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yet, the 2009 date was correct in the dialogue.

Here's hoping this year's Christmas special dispenses with the one year out nonsense.

 

[wamdue]

Yet, the 2009 date was correct in the dialogue.

Here's hoping this year's Christmas special dispenses with the one year out nonsense.

I hope so to, hopefully Moff will draw a line under all of this.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Political power abhors a vacuum.

Someone's time experiments are now not being disturbed by the Timelords and will evolve into something useful.

When you get down to it, the time lords for all their technology, were basically people like you or me.

There were gods, Eternals and Guardians humouring the Timelords hamfisted claims to power because they kept the even lesser beings in order that no one of real importance had to get out of the spa pool to deal with that shite.

The Doctor seemed to think karma was real.

You are Lawrence Miles, and I claim my five pounds.

(That's the idea behind Miles' The Adventuress of Henrietta Street; the novels had destroyed Gallifrey, and Miles asked, "But who takes the place of the Time Lords?")

 

[wamdue]

ok the folk at GB had spotted the mistake I posted earlier, guess that was to be expected.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Yet, the 2009 date was correct in the dialogue.

Here's hoping this year's Christmas special dispenses with the one year out nonsense.

I hope so to, hopefully Moff will draw a line under all of this.

He may not have to; I suspect that RTD is going to press a giant reset button at the end of "The End of Time," and much of the last five years of Who will be wiped away.