The Star Wars prequel films: favorite bits, lines, aspects!
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Start date
ST-One
Vice Admiral
Well, the eye-candy is very nice in those film but the acting (with the exception of Neeson, McGregor and especially McDiarmid) is just... awful.
Qui-Gon's death is such a tender scene that I never know what to make of it: a father-figure saying goodbye or a lover's farewell...?
Qui-Gon's death is such a tender scene that I never know what to make of it: a father-figure saying goodbye or a lover's farewell...?
Except when he all but calls his former protege evil and ingnites his saber, before Anakin himself does, making no attempt whatsoever to convince him of the error of his recent ways.
If that's the best wisdom the Jedi has to offer, then... but let's not blame them for GL's writing, shall we?
I have some mixed feelings about this as well, particularly considering that Padme had just been rendered unconscious due to Anakin's "force choke" and needed medical attention. Instead Obi-Wan, after checking her pulse, seems to ignore and starts fighting Anakin. It would've been interesting to see what might've happened had Obi-Wan just tried to take Padme back to her ship and leave. Anakin probably would've prevented him from leaving and that would've been a better way to start the fight between them IMHO. OTOH the whole point of Obi-Wan going to Mustafar was to help eliminate the Sith- Sidious and Vader, so him going there and NOT attempting to eliminate Vader wouldn't have made much sense but then again- at that point- it's hard to imagine what the *better* outcome would have been had Obi-Wan and Yoda had successfully defeated Sidious and Vader. As for why he didn't try to convince Anakin/Vader of the error of his recent ways, I'm not sure, after all of the carnage that Anakin/Vader had wrought, that it would've been possible to bring him back at that point but I guess we'll never know. If you were Obi-Wan, could you imagine working side-by-side again with somebody who had committed such atrocities against your own Order, including killing younglings? I don't know that I ever could. Maybe if Anakin had stopped with Mace- since he didn't exactly deal the killing blow- might it have been possible? After leading the massacre in the Jedi Temple, however, Anakin had passed the point of no return IMHO.
Fav moments:
-- R2 rescues the ship in TPM
-- Final saber duels in TPM and ROTS
-- Binary Sunset at the end of ROTS
-- Obi-Wans' little "How uncivlized" line when he kills Grievious
-- R2 rescues the ship in TPM
-- Final saber duels in TPM and ROTS
-- Binary Sunset at the end of ROTS
-- Obi-Wans' little "How uncivlized" line when he kills Grievious
Believable: he fell to the dark side cause of his fear of losing Padme the way he lost his mother. Like Plaguies (sp) and Sidious, he was looking for a means to cheat death, but unlike them, he was doing it for unselfish reasons. Poorly done, well that's cause Hayden was the wrong actor and Lucas gave us a whiny-emo boy instead of the hero fans had assumed Anakin to be; we simply don't care that he fell cause he didn't have far to go.
My problem is that while that is all true, Anakin was very loyal to people unless they betrayed him. He was seeing the death and destruction caused by the Sith and vowed to put an end to them. When he finally sees who has been behind all this (remember Padme' was threatened by the Sith too,) instead of feeling betrayed he grovels to join them.
Based on what we know of Vader and Anakin (he does not like things unsettled. Wants everything to be in order) this is what I think could have worked:
First keep in mind what Vader said to Luke about ending the destructive conflict. Remember also what Anakin said to Padme' that everything seems so simple when he's fixing things. He feels he is strong enought to fix everything via his powers but the Jedi try to teach patience in him. Palpatine feeds him that he can go out and fix things and encourages it and encourages him to go save his mother. Anakin begins to be successful but still impatient. Finally Mace and Obi-Wan discover who Sidious is and capture him. Word gets to Anakin via Palpatine's men that Palpatine is in danger. Anakin comes and finds that it is Obi-Wan who has him. Then Anakin is conflicted and Palpatine offers the power of life to save Padme'. So this plus the feeling of betrayal by Obi-Wan by capturing Palpatine is what finally turns him.
Something like that was more of what I felt, based on what had come before, was going to and should have happened.
^ That's not a bad scenario, especially if Palpatine plays on Anakin's fears by insinuating that the Jedi will ultimately be behind Padme's death (they find out about the relationship, want to capture her like they captured him, etc.).
As it is, though, I don't mind the setup ... it's the execution that seems a bit ... off. While the buildup has been happening for 2+ films, the actual change in Anakin happens too quickly. Still, once again does turn, the film's depictions of his atrocities, as well as the Jedi purge, are very skillfully done.
The Order 66 sequence is incredibly emotional.
As it is, though, I don't mind the setup ... it's the execution that seems a bit ... off. While the buildup has been happening for 2+ films, the actual change in Anakin happens too quickly. Still, once again does turn, the film's depictions of his atrocities, as well as the Jedi purge, are very skillfully done.
The Order 66 sequence is incredibly emotional.
"A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack."
No, there would not have been an offer of pardon from Obi-Wan. He would've tried to convince Anakin to let himself be arrested, as Mace started to do with Palps. And it's not a question of how likely Anakin would have been to accept. As a defender of peace, Obi-Wan totally failed his Jedi ways by not even trying, and by igniting his saber first.
I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll leave it at that.
Oh, but a favorite bit of the PT? Attack of the Phantom, which, until Trek XI came along, was the best Star Wars movie since Jedi.
No, there would not have been an offer of pardon from Obi-Wan. He would've tried to convince Anakin to let himself be arrested, as Mace started to do with Palps. And it's not a question of how likely Anakin would have been to accept. As a defender of peace, Obi-Wan totally failed his Jedi ways by not even trying, and by igniting his saber first.
I don't want to hijack the thread, so I'll leave it at that.
Oh, but a favorite bit of the PT? Attack of the Phantom, which, until Trek XI came along, was the best Star Wars movie since Jedi.
Speaking of how great the music is, I just went back and listened the TPM soundtrack, and I really like how there's little hints of the Imperial March sprinkled in Anakin's Theme.
As STAR WARS soundtracks go, the best of the best is TPM. No soundtrack is as diverse as this one. From "minor" musical moments such as the Flag Parade to the scenes in Otah Gunga to the Coruscant Fanfare you have a wealth of rich musical textures and memorable moments. Anakin's theme subtly and skillfully morphs into the Imperial March. In fact, listen closely enough and I swear you can hear elements of the Imperial March during the Naboo space battle music. You have to listen closely to notice it, but it certainly seems to be there. And, if not, it's certainly evocative of it. Even Augies Band, the throwaway, almost cheesy celebration music is meant to subliminally remind us of the Emperor's theme. And, of course, there is Duel of the Fates. Suffice to say, despite how good the soundtracks for Revenge and Empire are, neither are quite nearly as good as Phantom.
QFT!
I agree that it's pretty sly how Williams snuck those little flourishes of the Imperial March in the space battle and Anakin's theme. I didn't know about the Emperor's Theme being played in a major key until somebody else pointed it out but it sure is there. BTW: If you listen all of the way to the end of TPM credits, you actually hear Vader take a *breath*
TPM definitely had a lot of musical cues when compared to AOTC and ROTS- both of whose scores were fairly sparse and not quite as memorable by comparison. In fact, ROTS actually re-used several cues from both TPM and AOTC although the new "Battle of The Heroes" composed for ROTS was outstanding.
I will say this for ROTS, its re-use of musical cues from AOTC and TPM made a lot more sense that the re-use of themes in AOTC. And, actually, there was a lot less recycled music in ROTS as compared to AOTC.
As a point of fact, my biggest criticism of the entire PT is the score of AOTC, as it appears in the film. The ENTIRE battle of Geonosis -- from the arrival of the clones until the confrontation with Dooku -- is recycled music. Cues show up in inexplicably inappropriate places (Luke's theme? Really?). And, worst of all, was the missed opportunity to incorporate the Stormtrooper Theme from A New Hope as a Clone Theme for AOTC. It would have made a brilliant musical bridge between the two trilogies.
But alas, Lucas' editing of AOTC up to the last second prevented Williams from composing music specifically for the clones and for the battle of Geonosis. I also blame Ben Burtt's obsession with sound effects over a musical score.
Otherwise, the scores for the PT are easily a high point.
Garm Bel Iblis
Commodore
From what i've read that scene was thrown together at last minute. George came in with a couple of pages and said "get me a green screen and some chairs, I wanna try this scene out," and we got one of the best scenes of the movie out of it.
The "I'm so sorry" moment is another great one.
It's moments like that that show great acting, writing and direction.
So stuff it, haters.
Those moments with Obi Wan are what make him my favourite character. He takes so much of the blame for everything that's happening. It's heart breaking, when he's really the most humble, wise and upstanding of all the Jedi.
Yeah, Obi-wan has some really, really great moments in ROTS.
In 1977, Obi-Wan was a wise, wry, self-sacrificing badass.
By 2005 he was a complete tool.
MeanJoePhaser
Admiral
Obi-Wan never should've never trained Anakin, he admited that in A NEW HOPE. And we see the results. Kenobi considered Anakin a brother, but Anakin needed a father figure (Qui-Gonn), and since he lacked one...Palpatine took the "father" or perhaps "grandfather" role.
From a certain point of view, Obi-Wan is to blame for the Empire.
From a certain point of view, Obi-Wan is to blame for the Empire.
I also read somewhere that Ian McDiarmid filmed that scene while he was very ill, including a sore throat (I no longer have a source, so please take that with a grain of salt). Regardless of how it came to be, the Opera Scene is a classic moment in the entire Saga.
The source is the DVD of the film itself. During the commentary, Lucas said that, not only did he have a bad sore throat, but that Lucas decided not to loop the scene.
